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Elemental Beta 2-A Preview

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Elemental Beta 2-A Preview

from JoeUser Forums

imageThis week we plan to release Beta 2-A of Elemental. 

Once Beta 2-A goes out, we will be closing the beta for new users until Beta 3. To join the beta, simply pre-order the game.

Now, for those of you not used to being in a Stardock beta, let me emphasize once again: These betas are NOT fun. They are not supposed to be fun. They are NOT demos or representative of the final game play or even the final graphics. 

What to expect from Beta 2-A

There have been a lot of game play changes based on player feedback.

In no particular order these are the areas we’ve been heavily modifying:

  • Major changes to city building.  Generally, a lot fewer improvements being built and the ones there have more impact. Generally speaking, you will only build 1 of a given improvement in a city. Better improvements will require higher level cities. 1 to 2 housing units is typically sufficient to go up (but food is more precious since you can’t crank out gardens anymore).
  • More mobility in general (units get more moves)
  • Monsters properly spawn based on toughness (i.e. generally no more crazy monsters right outside your base)
  • AI improvements (still primitive though)
  • More items
  • More quests
  • Beginning of cleanup to the tech tree
  • Customize Sovereign enabled
  • Lots of bug fixing (alt-esc crash fixed)
  • Balance work on items, equipment, etc.
  • Some graphics and animation improvements

 

image
A more typical early game city.

We are pouring through player feedback and I think users will be surprised at how quickly and how many user suggestions we can get in (unless you’ve been in a previous Stardock beta in which it’s typical).  We ask those users who are new to our beta programs to keep sending in ideas but to please remember at this point, it is just a visual software program rather than a “game” per se. Those who want to “have fun” I highly recommend waiting until release.

Stay tuned and keep the bug reports, feedback, and suggestions coming!

 

UPDATE

We understand that many of you are finding Beta 2 fun. We're not saying that Beta 2 is completely horrible. We're just saying that we are only at the beginning of the balancing process and major elements (the WAR and the MAGIC) parts of disabled in Beta 2.

335,616 views 219 replies
Reply #101 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting bdarcher, reply 96

Roads. They help me feel like my kingdom is “connected”.  Doesn't have to be a huge strategic implementation but could certainly speak to the movement issue and maybe some sort of trade bump.

IIRC, building a Caravan and sending it to another town creates a trade route. As the caravan goes back and forth, a road will be created along that trade route.

So it's kind of like the "organic roads" idea some of us floated.

 

Will we be able to imbue items with enchantments?  ie..  claymore +1, +2… ect.  Trying to remember the game that had an item maker that was pretty cool where you add spell affects and such to items but long term memory is trashed….

In beta 1 the magic tree had an "enchantment" tech, but it didn't do much. Hopefully when the magic tree is re-enabled this sort of thing comes in. That said, I'd like to do more things then just add +2. Where's my flaming holy avenger!? ^_^

Reply #102 from Elemental Forums Top

Looking forward to city building improvement and new quests.

Sins of a Solar Empire: Rebellion
Reply #103 from Elemental Forums Top

i wonder if there will be spells that actually CREATE resources?  such as a wheat field, or fertile land tile, mines and what not.  that would help in the long run with the resource problems i think.  this way with high level magic you could create all the resources you want.

Reply #104 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Stmorpheus, reply 103
i wonder if there will be spells that actually CREATE resources?  such as a wheat field, or fertile land tile, mines and what not.  that would help in the long run with the resource problems i think.  this way with high level magic you could create all the resources you want.

As long as it's high-level, requires a decent bit of essence, and special rare resources can't be made, I think this is an excellent idea.

Quoting Tridus, reply 101
In beta 1 the magic tree had an "enchantment" tech, but it didn't do much. Hopefully when the magic tree is re-enabled this sort of thing comes in. That said, I'd like to do more things then just add +2. Where's my flaming unholy avenger!?

Fixed that for ya.

Reply #105 from Elemental Forums Top

one thing i would reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaly love to see since all 4x / rts are always lacking, are great fighting animations - not just hit kill finish boring...but really fun-to-watch-animations that surprise you - dawn of war kind of did that, the first strategy game that had really funny great animations...

Reply #106 from Stardock Forums Top

Quoting Sanati, reply 18
I know you can't please everyone, but I'm disappointed in the city change. I think most of the complaints about the current system are from people who don't really understand the food system or aren't researching the housing upgrades. You only need like 10-12 villas to max a city right now, and gardens are optional if you just go out and look for food resources (one bee hive with a granary is 30+ food). I really like the current system where you can make specialized cities, and you are putting down enough structures so it actually looks like a city with the highest level ones stretching across the screen.

I'd also disagree with the not fun comment. This is an entertaining game already, the only thing holding it back IMO is the bugged monsters causing the AIs to get locked in their starting areas, with that fixed next patch this will be a decent game even without all the missing stuff.


Quoting Sareln, reply 14
You can do that right now, but it's not very intuitive.  When you have two units on the same tile, if you select one and go to their "items" tab, you can click drag the item to the Portrait Button of the other unit.  This should transfer the item.
They don't need to be on the same tile. You can move items across the map if you want.

 

I agree, I really liked the expansive cities and making specialized places for the different resources and whatnot. It actually made a high level city look like a respectable place. Especially with the wall upgrades.

Reply #107 from Elemental Forums Top

I see some problems.  Food is crucial to success since you need it to build any city up from level 1..  Before if you didn't have it you could build gardens.  I don't think I agree with that because it encourages garden spam, and therefore city spam.  But that being said, you still need food, even if just a little bit to build that one city.  If luck doesn't provide you with it, well then you may as well just quit and try again, especially in multi-player.

This is why a use of essence should be to create fertile land!  Expend some of your essence in imbuing (already claimed) land, and get a plot of fertile land, where you can build a farm.  This should be moderately pricy in terms of essence, but it will make it relatively easy for you to compensate for a bad starting position, while at the same time rewarding players who manage to place outposts next to food resources first (as they do not have to expend their essence in this fashion, and can get better types of fertile terrain like hives and wheat).  So now, if you do not have access to food resources it merely forces you to play a different type of game (one that doesn't rely on an extensive empire), instead of forcing you to resign.

Reply #108 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Nemesis7884, reply 105
one thing i would reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaly love to see since all 4x / rts are always lacking, are great fighting animations - not just hit kill finish boring...but really fun-to-watch-animations that surprise you - dawn of war kind of did that, the first strategy game that had really funny great animations...

Quoting Nemesis7884, reply 105
dawn of war kind of did that, the first strategy game that had really funny great animations...

Quoting Nemesis7884, reply 105
that had really funny great animations...

Quoting Nemesis7884, reply 105
great animations...

Quoting Nemesis7884, reply 105
animations...

8O  

Just kidding, of course!

Reply #109 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Bill_Door, reply 108

Quoting Nemesis7884, reply 105one thing i would reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaly love to see since all 4x / rts are always lacking, are great fighting animations - not just hit kill finish boring...but really fun-to-watch-animations that surprise you - dawn of war kind of did that, the first strategy game that had really funny great animations...


Quoting Nemesis7884, reply 105dawn of war kind of did that, the first strategy game that had really funny great animations...


Quoting Nemesis7884, reply 105that had really funny great animations...


Quoting Nemesis7884, reply 105great animations...


Quoting Nemesis7884, reply 105animations...

 

Just kidding, of course!

 

not that bad    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9bWEz4ME-M&feature=related

Reply #111 from Stardock Forums Top

Quoting Eldorad, reply 58

Quoting Resand, reply 54
Not really. Essence are just needed to make the land fertile again. You can build cities on fertile ground without spending essence.
Hence to a 'lesser' extent - it's still a valid way of limiting city building whilst maintaining narrative.

To tie in to Sanati's response below...


Quoting Sanati, reply 55
I'd honestly rather not capture enemy cities, raze 'em on the spot, but that's probably just me. The cap could just be on "creating" cities though. You could get more by capturing enemy cities, and that would be a real strong motivator to defend your cities or capture them back before they can be razed and lost forever.
Each to their conquering own!

A way of creating that cap is through essence - unless there is another mechanism you can think of that makes sense narratively - ie in the game world?

In sins it was around logistics - you needed better supply and such to be allowed to build more ships. What are the limiting factors in elemental?

I would have thought the essence mechanism is the best way to go. Reduce starting essence on a sovereign to 3 and then allow them to increase it again through resources and/or research.

 

Take into consideration the size of maps as well, especially with the 64 bit version, if you're going to have a gigantic map you're going to need an empire of more than a few cities. How about a city cap as a map feature you choose in setup, so if you want to limit the number of cities in a game you can do so (likely entirely necessary for smaller maps) but you won't hamper the people who want to build an empire on one of the giant maps that will be available.

Reply #112 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Bill_Door, reply 110
I think you have missed a reference.

associated with KB:TL or KB:AP ;) ?

Reply #113 from Elemental Forums Top

Can we Please get a model to work with too? I know we've asked before, but it seems to have been forgotten about (or at least no one has replied about it that I've seen)  8O - Been playing quite a bit and so far am pretty happy with its direction overall...Can't wait to start modding, but it's really hard to plan anything (so we can get straight to work when Beta 5 (or is it 4 now?) rolls along) 3D without knowing more information about the models etc.

Reply #115 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Wintersong, reply 88

Quoting John_Hughes, reply 87
I would also like to see any "Quested Unit" get an automatic move value equal to that of the one who rescued them."My Sovereign moves 30 a turn ergo the rescued Damsel moves 30 a turn" doesn't sound right to me. More fun thatn rescued Damsel moves 1 a turn though.

At what TURN does your SOV move 30? By then, rescuing Damsels, even moderately fast moving ones, should be the least of your worries. :)

I would even settle for 1/2 speed, but 1 is totally brutal if the quest was taken rather far away from your Capital City (for example) unless your willing to burn Mana Transporting back...

As for the Organized Trait, don't you have to be able to build/create a SoV for that? ;)

Reply #116 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Peace, reply 112

Quoting Bill_Door, reply 110I think you have missed a reference.

associated with KB:TL or KB:AP ?

 

:omg:

Reply #117 from Elemental Forums Top

I'm happy about most of the changes, but I hope the changes to city-building result in more decisions, not fewer.  I want lots of interesting decisions and tradeoffs!  Decisions can take lots of forms: which building to build, which resource to exploit, how many cities to establish, whether to specialize, whether to favor a particular type of industry, and "zoning" -- where to place particular tiles.  

I especially hope the location of city tiles is important in the next build.  Even a bit of "Caesar 4"-style zoning decisions would add spice to this title, and further distinguish it from games like Civ and GalCiv2.

Reply #118 from Elemental Forums Top

You'll still be able to have big cities but it won't be because you built' 30 gardens, 10 workshops and 8 studies.

It''ll be because you worked through the tech tree and made careful choices of where to put what.

One of the things I've been working on this week is putting in improvements that are only 1 per faction (right now, only the palace really does that).  Specialization of cities matters and that can really only be gratifying by giving the player choices.

Reply #119 from Elemental Forums Top

I just had a thought... So right now for a city to level up you need to have the food and housing requirements. Now I was wondering if you add one more little detail. For a city to level up you need to hit the minimum number of different structures built in a city for it to level up too. What do ya think? *_*

Reply #120 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Hawawaa, reply 119
I just had a thought... So right now for a city to level up you need to have the food and housing requirements. Now I was wondering if you add one more little detail. For a city to level up you need to hit the minimum number of different structures built in a city for it to level up too. What do ya think?

It feels contrived.  Ideally we want the targeted result to fall out of the system naturally, rather than imposing it upon the system with somewhat arbitrary rules - it also hampers city specialization, which may or may not be the goal.

Reply #121 from Elemental Forums Top

Wow, my biggest annoyances with the beta are being seen to so quickly!

less city improvements required will vastly streamline city management and make them far more pleasing to look at too!

 

And less one tile movement groups will be great too.

 

If it continues at this rate, I may lose control of my bodily functions by retail release, too many great things going on at any one time.

Reply #122 from Elemental Forums Top

Oh come now, is it really so bad so many are finding beta2 to be fun? Looking foward to custom sovs though... any idea when empires and/or custom civs will be in?

Reply #123 from Elemental Forums Top

What about all the crashes?  I guess I am a small fish in a big ocean of success but I still CTD when ever I try to select anything from the base menu.  I have posted this (no error log is being created) but no feedback at all.  The boat is leaving and I can't even get on.  This may be the wrong place to post this but so far after months of not even being able to test anything...well, getting very frustrated to say the least.  Sounds like there is a lot of great feedback going on but it would br great if I (maybe others...I don't know) could also at least fire the puppy up.

Reply #124 from Elemental Forums Top

i feel like the wild game special tile is crap.  you have to pay 4 tiles for a measly 2 food.  i mean a garden gives you 2 food for just 1 tile.  i understand that a garden would provide more food easier than game, but something else should be added.

wild game tile - 2 food plus 1 prestige.  that would be better.  it draws in the hunters to a great hunting spot.

Reply #125 from Elemental Forums Top

Looks like really nice changes!  :thumbsup:

but now that the possibility for guarding choke points with cities is almost gone (I think its a bad idea to use cities like this anyway), I think it could be interesting if it was possible to build something like forts/defences.

Maybe a fort could be made up of something like 1-4 squares that you choose. The bigger, the more costly. This would also put more emphasis on tactics and navel landings to get around those nasty choke points

To avoid spam the forts could have an upkeep cost or a maximum limit.

I also like the idea that was presented earlier in the thread, about hero's asking to join your nation once in a while. How your empire attracts the heroes could be based on one or a number of things.

Work Based:

To avoid a slippery slope type of gameplay. One could argue that heroes would be attracted to where the work is at. For instance a specific type of hero would have a higher chance of being attracted to the empire who has the fewest heroes of his own type. Who needs competition anyway :grin: This type of attraction would also lessen the chance of an empire only getting heroes of the same type.

Research Based:

A hero is attracted to empires bases on the research it has chosen. For instance if the empire has researched a lot of magic. mages would have a higher chance of being attracted. This type would make research matter even more.

City based:

The hero is attracted to cities and not empires. For instance a warrior has a higher chance of being attracted to cities who has a lot of warrior type buildings like, training centres and buildings that produce weapons. 

City attraction would also help prevent a slippery slope type of game play as a player being behind all in all, could still have a great city and thereby still attract great heroes.

 

By the way I'm quite new to the game, so if any of the things I have mentioned is already in the game somehow or have already been mentioned, I apologize in advance.

 

Keep up the good work.