Elemental Beta 2-A Preview

from JoeUser Forums

imageThis week we plan to release Beta 2-A of Elemental. 

Once Beta 2-A goes out, we will be closing the beta for new users until Beta 3. To join the beta, simply pre-order the game.

Now, for those of you not used to being in a Stardock beta, let me emphasize once again: These betas are NOT fun. They are not supposed to be fun. They are NOT demos or representative of the final game play or even the final graphics. 

What to expect from Beta 2-A

There have been a lot of game play changes based on player feedback.

In no particular order these are the areas we’ve been heavily modifying:

  • Major changes to city building.  Generally, a lot fewer improvements being built and the ones there have more impact. Generally speaking, you will only build 1 of a given improvement in a city. Better improvements will require higher level cities. 1 to 2 housing units is typically sufficient to go up (but food is more precious since you can’t crank out gardens anymore).
  • More mobility in general (units get more moves)
  • Monsters properly spawn based on toughness (i.e. generally no more crazy monsters right outside your base)
  • AI improvements (still primitive though)
  • More items
  • More quests
  • Beginning of cleanup to the tech tree
  • Customize Sovereign enabled
  • Lots of bug fixing (alt-esc crash fixed)
  • Balance work on items, equipment, etc.
  • Some graphics and animation improvements

 

image
A more typical early game city.

We are pouring through player feedback and I think users will be surprised at how quickly and how many user suggestions we can get in (unless you’ve been in a previous Stardock beta in which it’s typical).  We ask those users who are new to our beta programs to keep sending in ideas but to please remember at this point, it is just a visual software program rather than a “game” per se. Those who want to “have fun” I highly recommend waiting until release.

Stay tuned and keep the bug reports, feedback, and suggestions coming!

 

UPDATE

We understand that many of you are finding Beta 2 fun. We're not saying that Beta 2 is completely horrible. We're just saying that we are only at the beginning of the balancing process and major elements (the WAR and the MAGIC) parts of disabled in Beta 2.

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Reply #1 from Elemental Forums Top

Sounds fantastic, Brad. :)

Can't wait to see the outcome of this; and that city looks *vastly* improved!

Reply #2 from Elemental Forums Top

Doln some late night postin there Brad?

 

Thank god for no more strong monsters near me, that seemed to happen alot

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Reply #3 from Elemental Forums Top

Beginning of cleanup to the tech tree

What will be the general philosophy behind the technology tree cleanup?  Are we locking in the general system? Subcategories too macro? Tree structures a given?  Sareln has too many questions about technology systems and should go work on something else for a moment? :D

 

Reply #4 from Elemental Forums Top

Glad I just read this. I got 3 classes now but I will have my say on gameplay, just need to play some more.The community is doing a great job so I'm not that worried.  :thumbsup:

Reply #6 from Elemental Forums Top

Thanks for posting the preview Frogboy. The current build has done it's stated goal at this point, and I for one look forward to the improvements, you've indicated. As it is, right now, it is truly as you said. Not Fun right now. And that's more due to the factors in place. 

All sovereigns should start off with a move of 4. They are sovereigns, and should be the unit we explore the world with for a while. But also, as it relates to other military units though, there also needs to be a bit of an upgrade, on speed. 1 square may be fun for some sado-masochists. But to me. It's just an exercise in frustration management.

And to be honest, there should be a realistic opportunity for Itinerant adventurers, who come to the cities, and offer to join. It's normal, groups of people want to join others, and be a part of something. So wouldn't it make sense, that some of them, offer to join you, free of charge. At least it would feel a bit more organic, and realistic. With the parallel corollary being that the NPC's, are drawn to the cities they want to be a part of. And they can offer to do so by comparing nearby nations.

I realize it's just an idea, but then you could add a layer to the NPC's.. 5 likely states for them. As it relates to joining groups. 1. Highly Active Seeking out a Group, to be a part of. 2. Very interested, and wanting to a Group. 3. Neutral, neither for or against grouping. 4. Enjoys independence, will join for more gildars. 5. Very independent, wants nothing to do with groups, and will ONLY join them when offered a lot of gildars.

This way, you could have those who are 1 & 2's seeking out Kingdoms/empires offering to join. It'd definitely feel more organic. 3 Neither seeking nor adverse to it. 4-5 Will not actively seek out groups. By that same token they should be more valuable on the ability charts.

So I look forward to the new build. I'm very excited for the end product. Will be worth the wait that's for sure!

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Reply #7 from Elemental Forums Top

Major changes to city building.  Generally, a lot fewer improvements being built and the ones there have more impact. Generally speaking, you will only build 1 of a given improvement in a city. Better improvements will require higher level cities. 1 to 2 housing units is typically sufficient to go up (but food is more precious since you can’t crank out gardens anymore).

That all sounds fantastic.  I've always felt that cities were taking up too much room on the map.

 

Reply #8 from Elemental Forums Top

Great news as always - glad I gave the forums one last look before bed! |-O v_v

Reply #9 from Elemental Forums Top

Im a new beta-e, just got it a few days ago, and have been playing. Im not sure why everyone says it isnt fun >.> im having a blast. Feels really good even with the few bugs i have seen (gildar gotten from battle is like 13e200 or something and units going invisable).

Only suggestions i can give sre let my units trade with eachother, let me choose/cycle through units when at a store, and if i am building an improvement and click far enough away (trying to select another town) to not get it to lay an improvment in that direction, having to hit done after everything feels a bit clunky. Also, is it too late to create a unit for the game? :D

Great job so far guys, from what myself and a friend have played, this looks extremely promising on the buggy beta state its in... iv spent money on worse games then this beta. Keep it up.

Reply #11 from Elemental Forums Top

I also like the idea of having adventurers show up at your door as an event. And I'm also pretty stoked about not having to micromanage building farms everywhere.

Reply #12 from Elemental Forums Top

Yea, i like what i hear.. I've been playing a few games of the beta 2. It tend to crash still. But i know it's being worked on. Haven't been able to connect to a human player in the MP thought.. Just the AI.

I like the reply #6 by Gorstagg where the NPC's has a structure of which city/faction they want to join. Also that the sovereign should be able to move a few squares to begin with.. (I love Heroes of Might and Magic, where you can move more then "one step at the time").

I also like the reply #9 by NatakuTDH where units can trade items with eachother.. Like armory, weapons, potions and books etc.

Keep up the good work. This game is extremly promissing!

Reply #13 from Elemental Forums Top

I'm impressed with the turnaround time for some of these things - seems it addresses the top issues talked about  on the beta forums nicely. Looking forward to the update!

Reply #14 from Elemental Forums Top

I also like the reply #9 by NatakuTDH where units can trade items with eachother.. Like armory, weapons, potions and books etc.

You can do that right now, but it's not very intuitive.  When you have two units on the same tile, if you select one and go to their "items" tab, you can click drag the item to the Portrait Button of the other unit.  This should transfer the item.

Reply #16 from Elemental Forums Top

I like the changes to structures, but will that make it harder to wall off choke points, or will we have a structure we can build just to take up space?

Reply #17 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Sareln, reply 14

I also like the reply #9 by NatakuTDH where units can trade items with eachother.. Like armory, weapons, potions and books etc.
You can do that right now, but it's not very intuitive.  When you have two units on the same tile, if you select one and go to their "items" tab, you can click drag the item to the Portrait Button of the other unit.  This should transfer the item.
You don't have to be on the same tile, or even on the same map view area -- items can be transferred instantly any distance (drag the item onto the recipient's icon on the far left edge of the screen).

Which reminds me, I need to report that again in case it's not intended...

Reply #18 from Elemental Forums Top

I know you can't please everyone, but I'm disappointed in the city change. I think most of the complaints about the current system are from people who don't really understand the food system or aren't researching the housing upgrades. You only need like 10-12 villas to max a city right now, and gardens are optional if you just go out and look for food resources (one bee hive with a granary is 30+ food). I really like the current system where you can make specialized cities, and you are putting down enough structures so it actually looks like a city with the highest level ones stretching across the screen.

I'd also disagree with the not fun comment. This is an entertaining game already, the only thing holding it back IMO is the bugged monsters causing the AIs to get locked in their starting areas, with that fixed next patch this will be a decent game even without all the missing stuff.

Quoting Sareln, reply 14

You can do that right now, but it's not very intuitive.  When you have two units on the same tile, if you select one and go to their "items" tab, you can click drag the item to the Portrait Button of the other unit.  This should transfer the item.

They don't need to be on the same tile. You can move items across the map if you want.

Reply #19 from Elemental Forums Top

Good to see you are keeping us informed and there is a fast turn around on our comments. Interested to see how the new town idea turns out. People lets not knock it till we try it, then we can post our thoughts.

Maybe the old system will be better i dont know.  BUt i guess that means all cities will now provide the same thing? Instead of being built with specialties in mind? Or is everything just in a smaller scale and not cluttered with 10 of one building?

Reply #20 from Elemental Forums Top

Looking forward to the changes, assuming it's planned for Thursday?

I have to agree with Frogboy on this one, interesting though some of the mechanics might be, the game isn't really "fun" just yet.. not in terms of a game anyway.  Perhaps fun to fiddle around with though.

Reply #21 from Elemental Forums Top

It's funny I am checking for updates like before the beta was released. If you put in half of what you say I will be exceedingly impressed. I have been in beta's in the past where vitrually nothing changes and half the reported bugs never get fixed.

Reply #22 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Sanati, reply 18
I know you can't please everyone, but I'm disappointed in the city change. I think most of the complaints about the current system are from people who don't really understand the food system or aren't researching the housing upgrades. You only need like 10-12 villas to max a city right now, and gardens are optional if you just go out and look for food resources (one bee hive with a granary is 30+ food). I really like the current system where you can make specialized cities, and you are putting down enough structures so it actually looks like a city with the highest level ones stretching across the screen.

I don't think the system will take away from possible specializations.  Especially if the system contains more nationwide unique structures.  Yes gardens ARE optional, but why go out and look for food resources when you can just spam gardens?

Reply #23 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting KellenDunk, reply 22

I don't think the system will take away from possible specializations.  Especially if the system contains more nationwide unique structures.

If you can only build 1 of each type of building, that right there pretty much tells me you can't specialize a city unless the building cap is reduced substantially (like 1/5 of what it is now) or many new building types are added (which would defeat the stated purpose of the change).

Quoting KellenDunk, reply 22

Yes gardens ARE optional, but why go out and look for food resources when you can just spam gardens?

Because the comment was aimed at the people who don't like spamming gardens. Why do something you don't like when you can simply explore a little and place your cities properly? I think it's good that spamming gardens is at least an option though, more options are always good.

I like when I find some fertile land near a bee hive and place a city right in the middle and tap into both, build a granary, then fill every remaining slot with houses and gardens. Bam, no more food worries for the rest of my kingdom. That sort of city specialization is awesome, and it will truly suck if it's removed because too many people are used to the idea of making each city self sufficient or whatever.

Reply #25 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Sanati, reply 23

Quoting KellenDunk, reply 22
I don't think the system will take away from possible specializations.  Especially if the system contains more nationwide unique structures.

If you can only build 1 of each type of building, that right there pretty much tells me you can't specialize a city unless the building cap is reduced substantially (like 1/5 of what it is now) or many new building types are added (which would defeat the stated purpose of the change).


Quoting KellenDunk, reply 22
Yes gardens ARE optional, but why go out and look for food resources when you can just spam gardens?

Because the comment was aimed at the people who don't like spamming gardens. Why do something you don't like when you can simply explore a little and place your cities properly? I think it's good that spamming gardens is at least an option though, more options are always good.

I like when I find some fertile land near a bee hive and place a city right in the middle and tap into both, build a granary, then fill every remaining slot with houses and gardens. Bam, no more food worries for the rest of my kingdom. That sort of city specialization is awesome, and it will truly suck if it's removed because too many people are used to the idea of making each city self sufficient or whatever.

Hey Sanati, my expectation on this would be more of a case of dialing in on the right mix. Because having the ability to have cities that contribute a greater amount of some resource, due to the advantage, will likely turn them into a smaller specialized city. But just figure that right now through testing, it's a case of balancing the entire plate. Right now, your idea of a specialized sprawling city exists. It's what were currently playing. The problem is many people are wanting something different, so we'll get that aspect of the test. And we'll see in version 2-A how well that works. If people feel it's too constrictive, then I'm sure they'll rebalance it again and we'll have another aspect to test.

All that said, this is the dialing in portion of the game. And I'm looking forward to that! Including looking at it from your perspective, and with the other ones.