Getting out of a bad spot...

from GalCiv2 Forums

It was all going so well...

I just recently began a game with my personal favorite settings:

-9 AI, 8 minor

-Medium Galaxy

-Stars Common, Habitable Planets Occasional, Exteme Planets Occasional, Asteroids abundant, Anomolies abundant, Mega Events on, Random Events Random, Victory Conditions: Culture, Alliance, Conquest.

-Difficulty Masochistic or maybe the next one up...can't remember what I went with.

-Human Race (not actually my favorite) with econ and moral focus

 

The game in general is going great. Heavy lead in research...influence over nearly half the galaxy...MCC in place and doing its job...I hold around 12 planets with the Drengin holding 8 and the Altarians at around 6. This is where the problems came. I had this great idea to hit the Altarians by bribing the Drengin into combat then mopping up. A horrible chain reaction took place.

The moment the Drengin declared war on the Altarians, 3 AI races and 3 minor civs declared war on the Drengin (I have never seen minor civs do this before may I add). Their military was already in the lead, but I had built the proper ships to counter. These new wars created an armada of Drengin ships with new weapons (bad mistake on my part). The Drengin quickly took their newfound military prowess and declared war on me, leading all their ships to my sectors! I panicked and found the 2 civs between myself and the Drengin and quickly bribed them into war...All that did was add to the armada still coming my way.

I have managed to hold off the Drengin for a few months with only 1 planet being traded back and forth. The military around teh galaxy is still quite minimal: The Drengin are producing their average small ships with 2 laser and 3 shield. My counter has involved small ships with 3 shield and 6 missile, backed by a medium ship with 12 shield and 3 missile. The free ships the Drengin have recieved are another matter...4 ships grouped to form 12 mass driver attack. I have held off long enough as well as researched far enough in order to produce a few medium ships with 2 laser and 12 anti-mass driver....But to my amazement these ships are dying at a 1-1 ratio vs the Drengin fleets.

So I sit...surviving. Quite well actually, but not progressing. The longer I am stuck in this war the further I slip. Finally the time has come to open negotiations with the Drengin- Peace = ALL my techs + 3 warships + 1 planet. This is 20+ techs we are talking here...Warp drive I, II, III, IV...Harpoon I, II...etc...

So, a little help. The game is most definately salvageable. The entire galaxy is at war with the Drengin. I am able to hold him back losing 1 planet back and forth or declare peace at a severe loss. Where to go? Any little tricks?

This is a bit off but came up in my description...What rating of shields would I actually need to prevent all damage? I have a 12 vs 4...when fleeted 12 vs 12...yet still I lose more that 50% HP?! (My apologies...I am sure this is discussed somewhere around here...)

Edit- Pretty important. At this time my military is outnumbered around 4 to 1...My ships/fleets defending planets while his are nicely grouped and on the move.

-Scanian

 

strategies
7,352 views 6 replies
Reply #1 from GalCiv2 Forums Top

You can't actually prevent -all- damage.  Furthermore, in DA and TA, you want your defenses to be at least as high as the opponent's FLEET's attack, which is really only possible early game, and almost requires a significant investment in end-tree defenses.

The reason you can't prevent all of it is because both weapons and defenses roll from 0 to max, so there's a chance, even with 150 defense versus 1 attack, that the defense ship will die-but it's not very high.

Well, you'd do better if you could fleet up as well.  But if they only have 12 fleet attack, you might be able to get armor defenses high enough to make a difference.  What's your current armor tech?

Really what you need is to take some of their planets-how fast can you get your transports, and what's your soldiering, especially compared to theirs?

And, for future reference, never have anyone declare war on the Altarians unless you're prepared for the consequences.  It's a strategy that some use, but I can't imagine they'd use it with the Drengin...

Reply #2 from GalCiv2 Forums Top

Duranthium III...Which is pretty high up there. Equivalent vs Laser but I can't remember the name. My miniaturization is a bit low...only enhanced. I count a lot of my problems up to bad 'dice' rolls in this battle. On average I am able to equal their fleet attack with my defense for 1 ship...then combining that ship with a small fighter. This fleet was able to kill one fleet of 4 ships...then 1 ship in another fleet of 4 before expiring.

My thanks SS, this is exactly the formula I was looking for...I still can't help but feel that the attack is favored...I happened to watch the video of one of my 12 def ships vs a 12 attack fleet of 4 ships....Batlle went to end with my ship taking no damage. Battle report screen shows up and my ship has lost 50% HP. I would at least like to know if I am facing attrition as well as weapons every battle. This could have a lot to do with my low weapons tech...Harpoon I being researched...this 12 def ship had 2 att...but why did I not show this damage in battle?

Soldiering was about equal to the Drengin, but actually being able to produce a troop ship+protection is the problem. It can be done at the outer planets...but those only take longer to reach the action.

In looking into my techs in order to answer SS's questions I decided to play another 6 weeks...Pumped out small ships with 4 att and 6 def. Teamed these with the ships that had 4 att and 4 def vs the wrong type of weapons. This made a 4 man fleet for me, 1 ship that had defense vs the Drengin, 3 that did not. This fleet destroyed 7(?!) 12 att fleets of the Drengin before being cut down. This was only due to the fact that the AI ships only targeted the one ship with def vs their own weapons. It took damage...but it was slow... The strange thing is I did this with an even better medium hull def ship (12 def 2 attack) and the AI targeted only the small ships with the wrong def. Feel like something could come from these findings...

All becomes moot however....At the end of those 6 weeks the council voted to end all wars (thanks to my 50% control of the votes). Things are calm in the galaxy and the Drengin are verging on friendly towards me. Still, some interesting things I want to continue that I may have stumbled upon here...(Not to mention I might not have been able to actually handle the war :annoyed:   Though I will say with this new trick...small ships targeted while medium are not... I had cleared all my sectors of the Drengin threat the turn before the vote...hmmm, maybe should have voted the other way?)

Finally...I had these great plans of using the Altarians vs the Drengin to take down the top military power for the cheapest cost. Essentially...I knew there would be a lot of races declaring war on the Drengin. I didn;t count on the Drengin deciding I deserved punishement the very next turn. Agreed though...live and learn...It seemed ingenious at the time! o_O

-Scanian

The Political Machine 2024
Reply #3 from GalCiv2 Forums Top

Targeting is attack / (defense + hp), without bringing TA's weapon/defense bonus modules into play, from memory.

Reply #4 from GalCiv2 Forums Top

Just to make sure I am understanding this correctly...

The small ship (without HP accounted for) became priority target 1.0 while the medium (again, no HP) was priority 0.6? The 3 small ships, the constant, would be priority 1.0? Laying it out like this makes a lot of sense, I just thought HP would carry more weight.

-Scanian

Reply #5 from GalCiv2 Forums Top

Wait, cancel all that...Drinking doesnt help math :S ... Are you telling me that HP has THAT drastic of an effect on priority? To take the previous model-

1 small- 4/(4+10)= .29

1 medium- 2/(12+30)= .05

3 small- Same as 1 small...I assume priority shifted due to effective def vs ineffective def.

Math will never be my area of expertise...but this seems right. If so, can I take the general idea that large ships = low priority? HP so much outweighs the other categories (Being naturally greater in amount from the start...1 vs 8 in most cases).

-Scanian

Reply #6 from GalCiv2 Forums Top

I can't imagine it being 3am helped, either.  Then again, I have to remember, not everyone is EST.

I have no idea what it uses when they're tied.

https://www.galciv.wikia.com/wiki/Fleet_combat

Before the combat begins, each side determines the order it will fire on the opposing side's ships. This order is based on the formula Total Attack / (Total Defense + Hit Points) (not included in this formula are Starbase assist bonuses, however any improvement to Weapons or Defence from military resources do count); the higher the result, the higher priority the target will be given. All ships in the fleet will fire on that target. If the highest priority target is destroyed, the next ship to fire will begin targeting the next highest priority ship, and so on.

The list of ships in a fleet actually reflects the order in which they will be targeted according to this priority formula. If your plan is to use smaller ships to escort capital ships, make sure you pack enough weapons on them to make them a high priority target; or conversely, balance your capital ship's offensive power with some defenses so that it does not become the priority target until later in the battle, if at all.