AI Oddities

from Sins Forums

Hey all, I have a question about the difficulty levels. They seem to be pretty straightforward really, and I always play my games on easy. It used to be that the AI would leave me in peace and fight each other, and I'd have time to basically get the biggest armada I could and then systematically crush everybody into oblivion.

Ever since Diplomacy though, it's odd. Around 10mins into the game, where if I'm being particularly fast and lucky i have 2-3 planets colonised with the free Capital ship and maybe 10-15 light frigates... Around that time, the AI (more than one of them if i'm particularly unlucky) will suddenly rush one or more of my planets and bomb me out of existence. My question is, HOW?! First, I'm playing on easy. Second, I always set them on easy fortifier, because I'd rather they didn't acquire too much money and start sending pirates after me, or research all the offensive and defensive tech before I got my feet off the ground. How do they then railroad me with 2 capital ships and up to twenty frigates (that require research!), while also having 4 planets? It doesn't matter if i set them on fortifier, researcher, economist, it's always the same. It's like I can't just have the game to myself for an hour or so, they start harrassing me before i'm ready for them.

Which brings me to my next question. Why is it that in a map with five solar systems and five mutually antagonistic players, four of those players start off in the same solar system?! Unless I set it to one player (and sometimes even then), at least one of the other players will start in the same system with me. I wouldn't even mind sharing too much with one other player, but like i said they always rush me. Why can I not have the solar system to myself, the map has five of them! If four of us are in one system, does that mean three are empty? 

Sorry about the long post but I'm hoping someone can explain, or maybe give me some tips to faster bootstrapping. The game doesn't start me with anywhere near enough resources to build enough ships to form a credible defence, nor enough to research (and then build!) the more powerful ships, while also trying to expand my empire

 

4,732 views 8 replies
Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top

The AI in general got a upgrade in Diplomacy. They are harder if your not use to them actually doing things. Depending on the speed you play your games at @ 10 mins you should have more that 10-15 Light Frigates.

 

Play a bigger map if you want more of a buffer zone between you and the AI. But you wont get an hour alone anymore. Sorry.

Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top

The AI did get a bit of a boost in diplomacy, but i think you're main problem (that a lot of new players have) is that you are not expanding fast enough. If the AI is getting more planets than you, then his economy and therefore how fast he can research and build ships is greater than yours too. I know other RTS and even Sins used to let you get away with the turtle mentality, but for the first 10 minutes at least in Sins you've just got to put all of your efforts into expansion.

I'm afraid I can't really answer your question about the player placement, that is determined by the map you are playing. If you are doing random maps, try playing one of the pre-made ones (Doppelganger is a good one where all players get their own solar system) or even better, make one yourself with the galaxy forge (you can give yourself extra resources and things too if you'd like to ensure you can beat the AI).

Multiplicity - Control multiple PCs using one keyboard and mouse
Reply #3 from Sins Forums Top

Hmm.. sounds like you're having economic issues; you seem to be afraid of overextending yourself and going bankrupt.

What Faction do you play? (I assume TEC) Regardless, here's some tips on how I normally get the game started.

Scout. Alot. Find out the planets that have the highest amount of extractors, and then find the planets that are chokepoints (very little phase lanes out of the planet).  Blitz your way to the chokepoints, colonize and fortify them, then focus on the planets inside your protective ring of fortified planets. (Normally, 1-2 hangar defense and about 5 turrets w/ a repair bay fends off most attackers long enough for your fleet to arrive.  Hangar defense needs MORE fighters than bombers, as fighters kill other SC and bomber frigates) Capture Asteroids and Terran/Desert planets first, if possible.  Then focus on Ice/Volcanic worlds.  Normally it takes a few minutes for the population on most larger planets to grow, especially if you can't fund the infrastructure (ALWAYS, however, make sure you're not losing credits to underdevelopment).  So, sell excess metal or crystal to increase revenue. 

As for your Fleet; I typically start out with just a Carrier Cap(one Fighter, two bombers) (they're all good, but the Skirantra and Halycon are far better than the Sova) and two (yes, TWO) colony frigates.  Always keep one frigate in reserve to save antimatter, two jumps away from your carrier, and one in action, one jump away. Since jumping requires 100 antimatter, often your colony frigates will run low.  Build some light frigates, but research flak frigates ASAP (especially for the TEC) Flak Frigates not only let your carrier cap rule the skies in a SC fight, but also have large firepower and hull strenght for their cost (I call them the most cost-efficient units in the game, 5 of them can often take out low-level Cap ships) However, you have to manually tell them to engage other ships, if there's no SC they just follow the Carrier around. (If you play as TEC, LRM's and Hoshiko's should quickly follow the Garda's, as well as an Akkan)

As for fending off attacks: choke points and fortification.  Fortifications aren't permanent, they just buy time.  If the AI is rushing you, if you manage to kill off their attacking fleet, you can follow up with a counterstrike.  You don't HAVE to take their planets, just ravage their economy, set up defenses closer to their Home Planet (A star base on an enemy home world w/ full SC points is always hilarious to watch when bored) to stall them while you build up your forces.  Pirates also greatly  help early on, but you HAVE TO KEEP UP W/ THE BOUNTY! If the pirates change targets, the enemy's experienced and hardened fleets stop defending and start offending.

Xer0 \^/

Reply #4 from Sins Forums Top

Thanks SO much for the answers guys! While I do tend to turtle up, I just wasn't sure if I was even more rubbish or the AI was more aggressive. Seems like it's a bit of both and I'll have to actually play properly for a change. I usually play as either TEC or Vasari, and I've started immediately taking the planet next to my homeworld. Then I kinda stall a bit as I want to make more ships to take the next one (because it always seems to have at least twice as many ships, going from two in the first planet to 8 in the next). Seems like aggressive expansion is key. I'm off to give it a go, I'll probably be back with more questions.

Again, thank you all!

Reply #5 from Sins Forums Top

No problem, although mine was more of a guide than an answer. ^_^'

Xer0 \^/

Reply #6 from Sins Forums Top

Hey Mesmorino, if you like I've got tomorrow off and all my usual fun is going for a while(the mrs. lol) if you like I could meet you on ICO for a little Economy 101 and Defensive tactics 101 ^^  

 

I'm Notes on ICO and I'm on EST, message on here or send me a PM if ya like. (P.S. DL the optimization mod, does wonders for that immense forces drag down about 1-2 hours into game)

Reply #7 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting BadTune, reply 6
Hey Mesmorino, if you like I've got tomorrow off and all my usual fun is going for a while(the mrs. lol) if you like I could meet you on ICO for a little Economy 101 and Defensive tactics 101 ^^  

 

I'm Notes on ICO and I'm on EST, message on here or send me a PM if ya like. (P.S. DL the optimization mod, does wonders for that immense forces drag down about 1-2 hours into game)

 

Oops, I just got out of a game now and i'm exhausted (man, the game requires such a serious time investment :-/) so maybe another time? I dunno how we'd do it, or even what ICO is but my game was epic! Okay so i realise that everybody and their moms probably always have epic games in Sins, but my MO was always- bunker down, get enough planets to have a thriving economy, get biggest armada, win game. This one though, i had like 4 or 5 planets colonised on Doppelgänger, then just parked my fleet in the sun's orbit (best chokepoint EVAR) cause i KNEW they would start trying to rush me. And boy did they. At first i kept holding them off with superior numbers, then i researched some cruisers and just kept sending them to autojoin the fleet. Of course, instead of fighting each other like you'd expect (or at least hope!) they were ALL trying to invade me (seriously, everybody's ships are in orbit and mine are the only ones being attacked?).

Eventually i got some starbases up in there and that settled it. Then, out of the blue one of them offers a cease fire which i agreed to, spammed him with envoys and made him my bff, then he took one guy out and as soon as i took the other guy out... he broke ALL our treaties and pacts (No allied victory and we're the only ones left). Now the relationship is around 13-15, but he hasn't actually declared war and I've still only got the planets in my home system (loads of resources though).

I'm now trying to decide whether to create a new fleet for home defence while i'm out, or trust the starbases to hold the sun... I'm playing Advent so they're mobile, and all three of them are fully upgraded with strike craft. Come to think of it, they're probably a more dangerous than my fleet... I'm proud of it for winning so many battles and skirmishes but would you believe I've only got 3 capital ships in it? I've got 10 of all the frigates and cruisers I thought would help lol, so it's about 43 or 53 ships total. I have a bad feeling it's not gonna cut it, but in the mad rush to expand i just sorta never got round to beefing it up.

I have SO many questions about Sins in general, it's not even funny anymore. Okay it is a little bit lol. First, when i set up a trade route and then hover over my empire economy, what does the white line mean? Is it showing the most profitable route or planets or something else? If so, how is it the most profitable route? I've seen it change as well, and even extend across solar systems. And then, occasionally there's an eye over a planet i'm viewing, either mine or someone else'. Who or what causes it, does it have any effects (detrimental or otherwise) on the planet, and how do i get rid of it? Also sometimes there'll be other stuff appearing on the planet, can't remember what they look like right now. Just stuff like that really

Reply #8 from Sins Forums Top

ICO is IronClad Online.

It is one of the tabs on the main menu.

The white line shows your unbroken trade routes, broken routes do not bring you as much profit.

The Revelation Battlecruiser[advent] has an ability called Clairvoyance that allows them to view a planet of their choice. No other effects. It shows up as an eye over your planet.

Rally points? Was it yellow and had moving arrows? Did you accidentally right-click on your planet while it was selected or while a factory was selected? One has to be careful while looking at planets.

 

If you like epic battles, try a mod like Distant Stars, Bailknights Graphical Mod, or my mod, Total Effects. :grin:

Just an advertising gimmick, heheheh. I will update my mod for Diplomacy soon, I promise.