Message from Elemental AI: I’ll see you in court

from JoeUser Forums

image The AI is unhappy. That is a summary of the complaint it filed with the federal court against me on Friday.

It is unhappy that it has to “learn” each map. Humans cheat all the time. Why can’t it?

A human player will pull up the mini map and figure out which general direction they should explore.  The AI? Nope. I won’t let it do that.  It doesn’t get to “know” anything about a map.

The AI points out that when we worked together on Galactic Civilizations that I let it ignore zones of control and just send units into other people’s “territory”.  By contrast, in Elemental, I don’t let it do that.  “Why not?” asks the lawsuit? (or the lawyer for the AI anyway).

The AI is very unhappy about the lack of “flying units”. I want it pointed out that there ARE flying units in Elemental. However, the AI cannot “train” so-called “scout birds” or get some random “uncover FOW in a given area” spell.  So yes, it will have to construct a habor, build a ship, put a trained scout unit onto the ship and sail the oceans if it wants to explore the world.

The AI is unhappy about the so-called “changing the rules since beta 1Z”. In Beta 1Z, all players started out right near some nice resources.  In Beta 2, we no longer guarantee this. There may be entire maps with no fertile land on it at all in fact.

It’s going to be a rough summer I suspect.

187,829 views 52 replies
Reply #1 from Elemental Forums Top

Good luck, Brad. We'll save some soap for you.

Reply #2 from Elemental Forums Top

Ouch you scared me, first word i saw was "court" while seeing the thumbnail, it didn't sound to be a good news.. rofl

Galactic Civilizations III
Reply #3 from Elemental Forums Top

*Dangles sparkly things in front of Frogboy*

Reply #4 from Elemental Forums Top

sounds like you have created a very smart UI.  Not everyone realizes that frivolous lawsuits are often incredibly profitable, and detrimental to your opponent.  Next thing you know it will be applying for welfare.  Perhaps it's time to add <Ethics></Ethics> to the xml UI file?

Reply #5 from Elemental Forums Top

On the box:

"Elemental.......driven by the first self-aware AI. If it can't beat you, it'll sue you."

 

So I guess you should include 'Civil Lawyer' under recommended specs. :P

Reply #6 from Elemental Forums Top

No more drinking before breakfast Brad....

Reply #7 from Elemental Forums Top

Maybe add resarch defense lwayer into the lineup once you have a city..

OR

wandering lawyer NPC (one would suspect they will cost quite a lot of gildars though)  ^_^

Reply #8 from Elemental Forums Top


A human player will pull up the mini map and figure out which general direction they should explore.  The AI? Nope. I won’t let it do that.  It doesn’t get to “know” anything about a map.

 

I had never, ever thought of it from that standpoint.

I imagine there is also a difficulty in managing the A.I. for the wide spectrum of skill levels among customers.  What is difficult for the average player is a piece of cake for some who pore over every detail and min-max every facet of the game.   Some folks attempt to play each turn to perfection and some (me) just want to roam around and do cool stuff.  While difficulty levels or sliders and disabling/enabling features certainly come into play, managing the A.I. to accommodate all of these factors must be a herculean task.  At what level do you let the A.I. cheat if at all?  Will your hardcore/loyal customers be happy with or not happy with your decision?  How are you sure you are making "the mostest funnest" game?  The openness of the Beta program and receptiveness to customer feedback probably answers a ton of these questions.  Also, you guys kinda know how to make games. ;)

 

Based on all that, I fully expect this to be the mostest funnest game ever.

 

Just coming up with everything that goes into it makes me tired and then there is all the stuff I have no idea about (that list is probably immense)... I just don't know how you guys do it.  Now I need an Advil. 

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Reply #9 from Stardock Forums Top

Use the Civ IV approach to avoid the mini-map player advantage (in that game you can't tell where you are on the mini-map relative to the edge until you discover some tech, astronomy I think).

How hilarious would it be if the AI got disgusted and quit?

Reply #10 from Elemental Forums Top

Can you post a larger image, so we can read the complaint? Or it's confidential?

Reply #11 from Elemental Forums Top

Will the AI call the player a noob, blame lag and ragequit if it's losing?  8C

Reply #12 from Elemental Forums Top

It doesn’t get to “know” anything about a map.

Be sure to leave that stuff in for modders who will want to use it for their campaigns! We can't rewrite the C code ourselves. : ) We have no shame about cheating.

Reply #13 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting emmagine, reply 4
Perhaps it's time to add <Ethics></Ethics> to the xml UI file?

 

LOL!  Funny that you're suggesting having nothing in the Ethics tags :P

Reply #14 from Elemental Forums Top

The AI in Elemental is a Turing test?

Reply #15 from Elemental Forums Top

Right now the AI is still an idiot. :)

Reply #16 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Maxpower179, reply 9
Use the Civ IV approach to avoid the mini-map player advantage (in that game you can't tell where you are on the mini-map relative to the edge until you discover some tech, astronomy I think).

I concurr.  

Or maybe this world is round.

For "general direction they should explore",  there maybe another factor you want to tinker; which direction the 1st (2nd, 3rd...)  opponent scout the AI first met.    Or when it meet the 1st opponent city, will the AI consider rushing it (or take up a protective stance instead)?   Or if the first opponent scout is an opponent Sov, does the AI think about to assassinate him when he is relatively alone?  

At in the beginning of the game, make the AI act like how a human act.    Again, what I've mentioned is just one of the play style human uses,  I recalled AI will have different personalities so this kind of aggressive play will only be deployed by some of the AI personality, if not the majority.

 

Reply #17 from Elemental Forums Top

When I make first contact I just set up trade and scout the opposite direction. It is foolhearty to waste resources in battle when they could be spent on expansion.

Reply #18 from Elemental Forums Top

Right now the AI is still an idiot.

 

Woohoo!! I have a chance

 

 

 

 

Man, I even fail at quoting on this board.  See, I need the handicap.

Reply #19 from Elemental Forums Top

Another picture that's to small for me to make anything of!

Reply #20 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 15
Right now the AI is still an idiot.

If you say such things, there might be another complaint against you ;P

Reply #21 from JoeUser Forums Top

Quoting _PawelS_, reply 20

Quoting Frogboy, reply 15Right now the AI is still an idiot.

If you say such things, there might be another complaint against you 

 

Common don't we have a thing called Freedom of Speech? Last I checked we can call whatever and whomever we wanted idiots. 

Reply #23 from Demigod Forums Top

We don't have freedom of speech on a private board

Reply #24 from Elemental Forums Top

Man does that mean the game is going to get delayed? If that is the case, I can take care that the A.I. never reaches the courthouse if you know what I mean.

Reply #25 from Elemental Forums Top

Ahh, the poor idiot AI. You evil, Evil, game developer you :P