And the fun never ends...

from JoeUser Forums

What's the old line from the movies/TV? Just when I thought I was out, they pulled me back in... or something like that.

To what am I referring?  Or should I say to whom?  Uh, my father-in-law.  For a relative flaming liberal on social issues, he's the most conservative investor you'd ever see.  To the point that I'm really concerned that his financial planning, or should I say the lack there-of, is gonna result in him not leaving much, if any, of an estate behind when he passes on.  I really doubt that he's signed up for and/or take advantage of any long-term care insurance and if he were to need long-term care it'll be at the cost of losing his home much the same as his brother's apartment/efficiency was lost when he had to go to an instituition for the last several years (approx 14 years of his life).  Until his (the brother's) assets were gone the government would have no part of paying for his long-term care no matter how badly it was needed.  Once the assets were gone, then the government stepped in and picked up the bills.

The same will, as I've said, sadly likely happen with my father-in-law unless he has done some planning that I'm fairly sure he didn't and/or wouldn't do.  He hates insurance companies and doesn't trust them at all.  He invests in very conservative funds (bonds and the like) with poor rates of returns but which are very stable.  I understand that investment strategy given his age and the need for a reliable income stream, but he's so risk averse that you'd think that he would be running out to find insurance against things but instead he runs away from the very thing that might help protect assets that he could and should be wanting to pass along to his relatives.  Argh.

What's my business in all of this?  Great question and here's the answer... this is all background in how the man thinks and works.  He's involved in the wrongful death case with my wife because he was one of her parents, and because he's the grandparent of my children, so he's trying to help make sure my kids are well cared for when there's a settlement of that case.  That's great and I'm glad he's concerned for their welfare.  I too am concerned for their welfare and I'm working with a personal injury lawyer and structured settlement specialist to make sure that my kids are well covered when it comes to their needs.  They both should have enough funds to cover their educations or at least to cover the bulk of their educations and get them a good head start on their lives.  The structured settlement specialist has worked up quotes for annuities that will guarantee that, but of course it was just a sample quote from one company and the end results and company that is selected could be different than the one that was shown on the initial (representative) quote.

So, yesterday we met with the personal injury lawyer, signed off on important paperwork, including having my in-laws both sign off on a limited power-of-attorney that gives the lawyer the required ability to sign the documents that need to be signed and accepted to complete the settlement.  All was good, or so we thought though there were signs that maybe all wasn't quite steady...

Sure enough, this a.m., my father-in-law was calling our home while I was in the shower.  He was beside himself with worry over enterring any arrangement with a company he'd never heard of, especially not an insurance company.  OMG!!! Things could go horribly wrong, you could get nothing, what we will do.  The sky is falling! The sky is falling.  You get the idea.

Thankfully by the time I got to work and checked my voicemail messages, I found 4 messages... one from my father-in-law at about the same time he'd called my home, then another from him later after he'd called the structured settlement specialist, and finally one from the settlement specialist.  After conversing with the settlement specialist, I think, I hope, I PRAY!!!, that we're on track and that he won't derail things and won't call the attorney and revoke the already signed power-of-attorney.  If he does, he'll wind up making things a big mess and could potentially rock things enough that my kids and myself wind up with far less than what we are currently looking at now.

Like I said, or wanted to say, bleh!

Really, I'm just looking for this part to be over and done with and to know that my kids can and will get to complete their educations and have the kind of start in life that their mother would have wanted so desparately for them.  I think it'll all work out, but it just doesn't seem to want to do so, at least not with my father-in-law involved.

In other news, well, not so much other news right now.  A fun day at work (hopefully), a slightly cleaner home, but as noted in prior entry, a lot of paper that I need to dispose of.  Hopefully a nice weekend ahead with a fun chore in the mix... a dry-run over to the concert facility that my daughter and I are headed to next week.  Just making sure we know where we are going, how to get there, how to find parking there, etc.  We want next week to go smoothly (along with all of the other events that we'll be going to there) so getting ready in advance seems like a good idea.

Baseball turned out ok last night and seems to be staying on the right track so far this season.  While there've been a few losses that I wish hadn't happened, there've been some lucky break wins too.  At least the team is very entertaining and competitive.  Much better than last year.

I may try to say a few words later about some car shopping with my daughter.  At least that's a more fun topic and something else that I could add some words about.

1,486 views 3 replies
Reply #1 from JoeUser Forums Top

Socially liberal and fiscally conservative?  At least with his money, right? ;)

My only solace in baseball is that the season has just begun.  But a season where the Nats are in 2nd?  Bet the long shots at the races!

Reply #2 from Stardock Forums Top

Socially liberal and fiscally conservative? At least with his money, right?

You got it.  It's really unbelievable, but the man (father-in-law) is such a, what's the word?, dichotomy (I think that's it) when it comes to this area.

He grew up during the great depression, or soon after, and it seems that he has let that experience make his decisions nearly all his life.  When he goes to the grocery store, or should I say back when he went to the grocery store as now he has my son shop for him on a regular basis, he'd buy no more than a day or two worth of groceries.  The smallest containers of whatever it was that he needed/wanted.  Never mind buying a 6 pack which would cost $0.59/can when he could buy a single can of vegetables that would cost $0.89/can.  He seemed to be deathly afraid that if he bought more than he needed than he'd never get to use whatever it was and therefore would have wasted his money.  Better to spend $0.89 rather than 6 times $0.59 ($3.54 total) as he might need that other $2.65 for something later.

One would think that having grown up in the time of hyper-inflation and then later living through the Carter era of runaway inflation would have taught him that it's not necessarily bad to stock up on some supplies, but he just doesn't work that way.  Personally, and I believe my wife thought this too, I think it's part of his own paranoid schizophrenia (undiagnosed, at least not professionally diagnosed, but almost certainly an issue for him).  His wife definitely has it (confirmed diagnosis, on medication for it), and his brother seemed to have issues to (which is part of what sent him away to an institution later in his life, after he tried to burn down my father-in-law's home with the in-laws in it along with him).  We've (my family, as in myself, my wife when she was alive, and my kids) have joked that it makes no sense for him to worry about leaving items behind unused in the event of his death because we'd be having a helluva party at that time.  But of course that isn't acceptable to him (not that we told him the joke, just the idea of it) because if he can't make use of whatever it is, then he won't buy it, period.

To continue the contradictions, he is following in his mother's footsteps and is pretty much refusing to leave his home.  He almost moved to a semi-assisted living facility (retirement facility) about 5 years back, but then decided against it claiming to have multiple reasons why not to do so.  Sadly, that 5 years haven't been that good for him and he probably really should be in a facility now.  Certainly if his wife predeceases him, he'll wind up there as no one in the family (not myself, nor my kids, and certainly not my brother-in-law or his wife, and especially not their children who are much younger than my own) will be able to care for him as he needs to have done.  He's been a great strain on his wife, and she shows it when you see her and talk to her.  My daughter has indicated that she seems to be planning to move to where my brother-in-law lives if he dies before her.  I think that would be a great thing, though she isn't much better than he is in terms of mobility.  (He's confined to a wheelchair, she gets around with a cane.)

The reason he apparently doesn't want to leave the home is that he intends to pass that asset along to his children and/or grandchildren.  My wife had a small interest in getting the home.  My kids have none.  My brother-in-law lives clear across the country and has zero interest (as best I can tell) in owning that home, and his children have absolutely zero interest either, so in the end if he passes on that home will be sold and the assets will pass on to his heirs (with a temporary stop in his wife's estate, assuming he planned accordingly and has protected his assets in some manner).  That one asset he has obvious plans to pass along, but in terms of money, not that he hasn't been very helpful and generous in the past, during the early part of my marriage, and then later in helping his son, it seems fairly obvious that he didn't think all that much of the idea of passing along money to the next generation.  It's as if he had tunnel vision on the idea of each individual earning their own fortune, with the idea that having the government tax away most of the estate's money not being a bad thing at all.

My own plans and goals are that the government shouldn't get one penny more from me than what they deserve, and they better show me where they deserve even that.  I too believe in individuals making their own fortunes, but I see absolutely no reason that the government should come along and take the assets of future generations away from people that worked hard to get what they have.  If you've worked hard, and hell, even if you didn't but someone else in your family did, then the assets are yours or your family and they should remain there, but that isn't necessarily how my father-in-law seems to see things.  He and his wife may have gotten a bit better about that over time (back about a decade ago they were much more of the opinion to let the government have it all, now they seem to be less inclined as they see their own mortality ahead) but they could have been so much better about it.  As is, I'm not sure there will be any inheirtance for them to leave behind for anyone and that is truly sad to me as they could have helped their family for years to come, not just for the few years they were here.

Ashes of the Singularity II
Reply #3 from JoeUser Forums Top

You touched on a subject that made me pause and think about myself.  I do not think I am that much older than you, but perhaps a bit.

Our parents are products of the great depression.  And that has shaped a lot of how they do things and why.  I remember my grandparents, perhaps never being classical liberals, but being every bit the fiscal conservative you describe.  My mother to a lesser degree, but still she can make a penny weep.

But I am a child of the 70ps (60s and 70s actually).  And I grew up (came to maturity) during the run away inflation of the 70s.  I save pennies as well.  And I am very familiar with the time value of money.  But I EXPECT prices to go up.  So when I shop, at least for non-perishables, I look to buy the largest amount I can afford, knowing that the price is just going to go up.

Your Father-in-law, and my parents/grandparents lived through the 70s, but they were shaped by the depression.  I was shaped by the inflation, as I suspect you were.

I do not know your father-in-law, but perhaps if you look at it from the perspective of how we each were shaped in our formative years, you might see why he is doing things the way he does.  Neither he or I are what you would call "logical" in this regard.  I would say we are just trained that way.