monster creation through magic.

Good idea, creating custom monsters would be even more fun than normal armies 

Sounds like a good & fun idea!

Even if it wouldn't make it in release, it'd make a great addition for an expansion (and modding is a given, so I won't mention this   drat, I just mentioned it )

you know really, you don't have to necessarily summon them.  you could have a creature lab and capture the creatures(even your own citizens mwhahahah), and experiment magically on them.  change them up or make them more powerful.

Mounts too!

"IT'S ALIVE!"

"Now go forth and rend the Meat from thine enemies bones!"  LOL

"Brilliant!"

It only makes sense that if powerful pre-Cataclysm sorcerers made the Fallen, a truly powerful post-Cataclysm sovereign should be able to do something similar.

But I'd rather see it kept clearly as a form of creation, not summoning. Think Saruman making the Uruk-Hai vs. Gandalf calling his friend the King of Eagles to bum a ride.

Yea ... definitely magical creation a la Mystical Factories or some such. Giant Magical temples or laboratories (usually with written homage to demons) was a corner stone in the Manga Bezerk when it came to the creation of unearthly and magical monsters

Then again, in that manga, God and Satan were the same person, and this God-Satan wants/ likes for humanity to suffer.

The Hand of God was a band of immortal divine spirits, originally birthed from a human form, whose aims were to cause humanity suffering/ follow the will of the God-Satan.

I'd prefer to see buildings left out of the equation, or at least limited to being optional bonuses to things like mana cost and casting time.

Maybe I'm thinking of in-game creature creation vs. summoning as sort of like champion vs. regular units. Summoned creatures would come from the standard assets, and magic like the stuff that made the Fallen would include a variation on the unit designer that 'average' players could use to cobble together some art & stats and make a unique unit. Which, now that I think a moment more about it, sounds very much like expansion pack stuff if it's going to look good.

Btw....IIRC there is an old game with a creature creation system like this, or something similar at least. I just don't remember the name of it.

i would just love to open up the magic system and make it more than just about making things happen right then.  i want the magic to feel more organic and part of everything.  i guess i could for the most part compare it to dungeons and dragons.  in 2nd edition magic was mysterious and weaved through things. you could really do anything you could imagine.  but in 4th ed, its just about getting the job done and you really on have one flavor, fighting.  i would like for elemental to make the magic feel more like 2nd ed dungeons and dragons, like you could create golems and stuff by spending out resources.  with the magic lab feature it would get just a little bit closer to that.  options...i want alot of options.

I second that notion Stmorpheus!!   Magic should be about creation just as much as it is about destruction.  There should be enchantments, constructs, illsusions, etc.   It would make for much more creative tactics/strategies.  There could be a whole raft of objects that can only be conjured/enchanted/created.  And who doesn't like poesky illusions??? 

While I can definitely get behind this idea. I am worried that if carried to the Nth degree. I am not sure I want to sqaure off against a solely magic monster army.

I would definitely support this idea if there were some limits in place to keep them rare and special instead of masses of magical shock troops.

You know as for the illusion thing. If handled correctly that could be incrediable.

Imagine before it goes to the battle screen you were asked if you wanted to create any illusionary forces. If you did they were placed when the regular forces were so your opponent didn't know what was illusionary or not.

Lets say we make a companies of illusionary calvary. The enemy adjust his starting position to take into account the 4 companys, say putting his pikeman on his front instead of protecting his flanks. You then drop all his pikeman with archers because of the positioning.

Or after 5 battles where you have pulled the same trick, your opponent has started ignoring all your calvary now. So you slip in 4 real companies. send them flanking at the sovereign. which he ignores thinking it is the same trick again till *BAM*

Yeah Illusions done right could be alot of fun.

I'm thinking expand it into global/world illusions too.  For example, instead of actually making the land rise to fortify your area with ACTUAL mountains at a costly mana/essence expenditure.  Be able to create illusionary mountains or other obstacles that can be dispelled, or true sighted through (dispel would mean yuo know they have seen through your imaginary mountains, true sight, means you think that the illusion is still there and working, but they know they can walk right through it).

Not to mention phantom armies walking around the map, even before the tactical battle screen!!

Phantom armies on the world screen would be so much fun lol.

Hah! I figured it out that which game was that! Gene Wars! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genewars

You genetically manipulated the various creatures. Example: You could create a crabbomule from a crab and a mule.

Great idea! Not sure if it would be feasible, but it sure would be fun, and I agree that it seems to fit with the lore of the world. the channelers as mad scientists sounds fantastic. Considering that they are going to allow (unless things have changed) breeding between different fallen, and fallen and human with regards to the dynasty this might not be too far off. At the very least you could attempt to cross-breed different creatures you have captured. just imagine a half troll-half bear, or even worse a Manbearpig!

of course there would be checks in place, these creatures you create would be very powerful and custom tailored to your strategies, but they would also would require alot of resources to bring into existence.  they may require rare resources, lots of regular resources, maybe even mana upkeep to keep them binded or alive, they could even cost precious essence.  after all your are bringing something to life, why not cost life essence?

I have noticed that when I post that they need to make restrictions on post's like this or Tas's Heartblade post. That people seem to just assume there would be restrictions lol.

While I have great respect for the Devs I try not to fall into the assuming pattern. Not stating the obvious or what you consider an obvious thought at times is the fastest way to make sure it gets missed.

more choices and customization yea bring it on! I am game! thought something tells me so much customization in so many different yet interconnected areas is got to be driving the deves crazy as to how to best implement it and not become grossly redundant and imbalanced.

I think this goes hand in hand with my Custom Race Creator Based on Building Editor idea. The very same graphical application would be used here more or less for creating the creature. Even if not "making" a creature it would show a picture of what it is you're summoning. Great idea. Making custom monsters through magic in game just sounds cool by its-self.

I really like this idea. There would have to be some balancing here, but that applies to every feature. In order of creating a man eating giant one would have to use lots of effort (getting rare resources, researching expensive spells, paying lots of money and the like). Maybe even the sacrifice of ones own population.

"Put that farmer inside that boiler there and I will make him an assasin goblin in no time"

Great ideas in this thread! Not too get so far off topic but I want to see "Create an Artifact" spell as well (like in MoM). All in all, I support any "in game" editor that is tied to the magic system!

I am not against "create an artifact spell or forge but PLEASE use your most skilled developers to properly balance such. I say this because I often find that once one can create things in game it takes away any reason to go on quests or adventure in hope of getting that super ultra rare item "surprise".  

I am all for customization during the game set up (at the start of game crating sovereign and making your faction and units choosing what spells to commit to what custom summons you will be allowed to research etc. But once the game has started and all the game play "switches" have been set to what all the players have agreed to it should be all about strategy and how you play your game choices(made before the game started. If not then say you made a nice creative custom faction and your opponent has no clue what he/she is up against once the game is on the way and the "cat is out of the box" he/she can rest assured the tide can change in there favor buy creating items to compensate thus the other side does the same and in the end you end up with two uber factions that one only looses to because of human error or fatigue and not so much strategy and uniqueness to its custom content.

I would not love AoW so much if it did not have all the switches to turn on/off city building, magic, population growth,telephoning, forge, etc.

Frogboy said he wanted to make a "world class AI" well I say let him put lots of effort in that and have him give us the tools to put that AI to the test instead of him  trying to spread himself to thin (with dead lines and such trying to put to much pre made content like factions and tech trees, spells, tech trees etc) If he works on giving us the tools to choose all this from the get go, a base selection and allow us to create our own he can focus on making the AI and game engine balance and "World class" He can always release expansions of pre made high lore game content if he is successful at the latter we will all buy them to add to our own ideas and creation and for the fun of playing using someone else' s ideas but confident when purchasing such expansions that the game itself is solid and flexible enough to fix anything that is not to our own personal liking.

P.S. with that said please do not make things so thin that things like the Dynasty system are removed or severely hampered Randomness is also fun and essential for re playability.