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Abraham is Not Just A Father To The Jews

Abraham is Not Just A Father To The Jews

He Is The Prototype of Our Faith Today

I want to tell you a true story.  It's ancient history now but it's a beautiful story of God's love for all mankind.  God looked down, saw a mess and knew something had to be done to reconcile us to Him saving us from what would be a terrible end otherwise. 

It all starts with a man called Abraham.  Years after the events of the original story James wrote this: 

"Was not Abraham, our father, justified by works when he offered Isaac his son upon the altar?  See how faith is wrought with his works and by works was faith made perfect?  And the scripture was fulfilled which said "Abraham believed God and it was imputed to him for righteousness and he was called the Friend of God."  James 2:21-23

The key here is "the scripture was fulfilled."  Normally we know that prophecy is something that is uttered either orally or written down, and after some period of time, later seen. 

Here we're talking about scripture that was given to Abraham.  James is saying what was spoken to Abraham was later fulfilled.  "Abraham believed God and it was imputed to him for righteousness." 

In Genesis 12:1-3 where it all began, we can read about the call of Abraham.  He was told to get out of Ur of the Chaldees which we know is the old name for Iraq.   Hebrews 11:8 tells us that when he was called, he obeyed even though he had no idea where he was going. It was by faith he did this. 

This was no easy feat.  In Joshua 24 we read that Abraham's father's background was idolatry.  Abraham was born a Gentile and declared a Jew.  The Jewish nation would be born from this man.  He was called out of idolatry.  Nothing about his circumstances can explain why he did what he did.  Faith is able to accomplish what circumstances cannot do.  It was not easy to walk away from your clan, your gods, and your way of life.  Something was unusual here.

He was 75 years old when he responded to the call of God.  He was a senior citizen.  Later in Chapter 15 of Genesis which is the most important chapter in the life of Abraham we can see he's a few years older.  We're not sure how much but it's under 10 years because the chronological marker in 16 tells us it was 10 years after his initial call.  In this very important chapter we read this:

"And He (God) brought him forth abroad and said, Look now toward heaven and tell the stars, if you are able to number them and he said to him, So shall your seed be.  And he (Abraham) believed in the Lord and he counted it to him for righteousness."  15:5,6.

This is exactly what James wrote about.  Many believe that Abraham did something to earn this but all he did was believe the promise that the Lord had given him.  Simple belief made him right with God.  It's so simple yet all the religions of the world have told us for centuries we must earn our way into God's good graces.  Not true. 

Abraham was justified by faith.  Paul later made it quite clear that Abraham's salvation was made on this night.  He is justified in Chapter 15 not in Chapter 12  when he left Ur.  We know Abraham left Ur by faith but there are different types of faith.  Abraham, in Chapter 12, is exercising legitimate, genuine faith when he left Ur.  But it is not soul saving faith.  God said to him "follow me and I will show you a land."  He believed it and trusted it would happen but in Chapter 15 it says he believed in the Lord and "was counted to him for righteousness." 

In 1 John 5:13, John wrote something similar to the Christians when he penned this:

"These things have I writeen to you that believe on the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life and that you may believe on the name of the Son of God." 

Simple belief. Soul saving belief.  How complicated the religions of the world make things.

It's one thing to say I believe in Jesus and quite another to believe in his death, burial and resurrection and understand how it means for our salvation.  Saving faith is when one goes to the Savior at the cross and knows he died for them.  God communicates truth to us when we respond.  As we respond to truth, he gives us more light.  God called Abraham by faith.  Abraham responded.  He reached out in faith to God of the promise.  He did not give a performance to earn his salvation. 

Many years passed by and Abraham, not having the benefit of scriptures like we do thought he needed to help God out a bit so he and his wife came up with an idea.  They brought in their handmaiden and she conceived a child.  Of course this was not the child of promise.  This was their idea not God's.  We see here that Abraham was 86 years old (Gen 16:16). It wouldn't be until another 11 years later that God gave the covenant of circumcision (Chap 17)  and even later that the child of promise to be born. 

Later in the book of Romans, Paul said there was a very clear reason why God did it this way.  The only thing that declared his justification was his faith.  Paul asks in Romans 4 "what does circumsion have to do with Abraham's salvation?"  Nothing.  It's simply a symbol or token of his faith already possessed. 

Now Abraham's guilt over his handmaiden Hagar immediately comes to the surface.  He is so excited about the promise he thinks about his son Ishmael, desiring a plan for him too. 

God is specific.  Sarah will have a son.  His name is to be Isaac. God's covenant will be established with Isaac. 

Then comes one of the most beloved chapters in the book of Genesis.  Chapter 22. This is when Abraham would offer Isaac up to God as a sacrifice.  Keep in mind the culture back then.   We don't know how old Isaac is, but we can listen to the dialogue between the two and understand he's at least a boy if not a young man. 

They woke up early in the morning to make this trip up the mountain.  We see no questioning; no challenge to God's request of Abraham for this to be done.  Abraham once again responded clearly in faith.  The writer in Hebrews tells us Abraham's thought process giving us more info.  He lifted the knife but in his mind he knew God would raise his son back to life, because before they went up the mountain, Abraham said "we will be back." 

This is the faith process.  Same thing we have to go thru when we exercise faith today.  Abraham clearly understood what God said in Genesis 17.  He heard and believed God would do what he said about how numerous his seed would be through Isaac.  Abraham faced a dilemma of faith.  A paradox was before him.  He must have questioned himself by thinking "how do I reconcile killing my son, the son of promise, and the promises of God that were to come from Isaac?"  His seed would be multiplied thru Isaac and how could this be if he were dead?

He came to the conclusion "I can't reconcile this but God can."  As he looked up, knife in hand, he saw a ram caught in a thicket.  This ram never entered his mind.  In his mind he saw, according to the writer of Hebrews, Isaac dying in sacrifice, then his beloved son would be raised from the dead.  God in his mercy withheld Isaac being sacrificed yet later God did not withold his only beloved Son dying for us. God provided a substitute for Abraham in the meantime.  It was like God was saying, "no Abraham, not your son, but mine.  I will do it. 

Circumstances are God's problem.  My responsibiilty is to do what God tells me to do.  How many times do we look at our own circumstances and don't do what God would have us to do?

It's all about FAITH.  This is the reason Abraham is our spiritual father.  He was a great example to all of us, not  just the Jews. 

Simple faith.  Same faith.  Soul saving faith. 

 

  

 

 

23,580 views 71 replies
Reply #51 Top

Again Lulapilgrim you give me a quote from an apostle, as proof. I've said that many times the apostles were men with the understanding of men.

Yes, this is St.John's account of St.Thomas, but what you seem to ignore is the fact that St.Thomas was speaking directly to Jesus calling Jesus " My Lord and my God". If Jesus was not God would He have allowed St. Thomas to say such a thing? Of course not.

Verse 28 is "Thomas answered Him, "My Lord and My God". 29 Jesus said to him, have you believed because you have seen Me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet believe."

Now, linking this back to faith, St. Paul taught "faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things unseen." And it becomes clear that faith has to do with things which are not seen, for those which are seen are no longer the subject of faith, but rather of experience. So why is St.Thomas told when he saw and touched Jesus' wounds "becasue you have seen, you have believed."Becasue he saw one thing, (the Man, Jesus) and believed another thing (that Jesus is God). 

It's certain that mortal man cannot see Divinity. But in the case of St.Thomas, he saw the Man, Jesus, and recognized Him as God, saying "My Lord and my God". And Jesus allowed him to say this.

In conclusion: seeing, he believed, becasue contemplating that real man he exclaimed that He was God, whom he could not see.

 

 

 

Reply #52 Top

Yes, after the resurection Jesus was like God, because he took the path to the tree of everlasting life, and he ate of it.

JESUS IS THE LORD GOD.

JESUS IS THE PATH to life...Remember He said,  "I am the Way, the Truth and the Life"?

JESUS IS THE TREE OF LIFE....remember He said, "I am the Way, the Truth and the Life"?

Becoming as God is not the same as being God..

True for us, but not for Jesus as He is God..He always was God and He always will be God.

  Apparently there are several "Lord Gods" that exist, other wise the Lord God would not have said "Adam is beome as one of US." The word "US" is definately plural, not singular.

No, apparently not.....in Scripture, threre is only one God, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

Yes, the word "us" is plural and when "us" is used in Genesis, it denotes the plural number, that is, to insinuate the plurality of Persons in the one true Lord God.

In God there are Three Divine Persons. The First Person is called God the Father, the Second, God the Son, and the Third, God the Holy Spirit. Each one of these Persons is God, not three gods. They are only one and the same God.

 

Reply #53 Top

Revelation being one of them, he was not instructed by God to write anything.

and they weren't NOT instructed NOT to either.  You're trying to make a claim using non evidence. 

Jesus instructed them to TELL, not write, of his life and what they witnessed, he did not tell them to decipher the meanings of his words, only to repeat them. They were to be witnesses only!

What are you saying?  A witness couldn't write down what he saw?  Telling doesn't involve writing? Since when?  How else could they perserve their witness?  What's the quickest most effective way of telling?  They were not going to live for ever.  The only way to preserve this was to write it down. 

Where does it say they were NOT to write?   This is just nonesense talk Whisper. 

What are you trying to say?  What is your point?  Trying to debunk the word of God?  That's what it sounds like and sorry to say but that's just is coming from the pit of hell.  Of course this has been Satan's main trick from the beginning to get people to doubt the word of God.  Right from the get go. 

In fact Jesus made it clear by reading the OT scriptures in the temple more than once not to mention quoting from the writers of the OT that it was a good thing to have things written down.  He pretty much validated every single OT book.  You might want to read Luke 4.  Here's a few other scriptures to ponder. 

"Blessed is he that reads and they that hear the words of this prophecy and keep those things which are written therein"...Rev 1:3

"Behold I come quickly, blessed is he that keeps the sayings of the prophecy of this book."   Rev 22:7 (Jesus said this)

"and He (Jesus) said to me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book for the time is at hand"   22:10

How about the angel in Daniel who told Daniel this:

"But you O Daniel shut up the words and seal the book even to the time of the end; many shall run to and fro and knowledge shall be increased."  12:4

"And that from a child thou has known the holy scriptures which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.  All scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine for reproof for correction for instruction in righteousness."  2 Timothy 3:15-16

"Knowing this first that no prophecy of the scripture is of any prive interpretation for the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.  2 Peter 1:20-21

 

 

 

 

 

Reply #54 Top

Again Lulapilgrim you give me a quote from an apostle, as proof. I've said that many times the apostles were men with the understanding of men.

Lula gave you a good scripture with Thomas.  Are you forever learning Whisper without coming to the knowledge of the truth?  Did you not read yourself the reply of Jesus back to this disciple?  When Thomas WORSHIPPED Jesus as God what was Jesus' reply?  Did Jesus tell him to get up because he wasn't God?  Did he tell him that was inappropriate? 

Say NO Whisper.    Jesus said this:

"Thomas, because you have seen me you have believed. blessed are they that have not seen and yet have beleived."  John 20:29.

You have to ask yourself Whisper, Believe what?  Go back to v28 and read what Thomas said:

"MY LORD AND MY GOD."

That's what Jesus was commending Thomas for believing.  Thomas finally believed that Jesus was God.  This is very simple if you're really a seeker as you claim to be.  Otherwise you are listening to someone that is deceiving you. 

Now YOU, Whisper, have no excuse.  You will NOT be found faultless when you meet your maker.   Who do you say that Jesus IS? 

If you can't quote to me such a passage as I asked then perhaps it's you that should read scripture again and without the knowledge that others have given you as to it's meaning.

I've been reading and studying the scriptures for almost 40 years Whisper.  Please don't talk down to me. 

If I am picking and choosing KFC, then quote me the scripture in which Jesus himself says that he is God.

I did.  Are you NOT reading what I'm writing?   Did you not read my comment in #47?  I gave you a very clear declaration from the lips of Jesus himself. 

 

Reply #55 Top

Sorry lulapilgrim, I simply don't see it your way. no matter how many "IS's" you put in it.  I still do not think/know that Jesus is God personaified.  I have my own experiences that tell me otherwise.

I don't see insinuations in the bible.  I read it word for word, and I don't assume that anything means anything other than what it says.  While you may insinuate, those that read that text long before the coming of the son of God, did not assume that there was a different explanation and I don't either.  You can say that the word "us" is menat to mean that God is several different things/beings, but that doesn't make it so.  Until you can quote me a passage by Jesus that says otherwise, then I must assume that you are assuming.

Yes, KFC, I did read it and the gospel of Thomas as well. I gave my explanation of the words of Thomas, did you read it?   Did you learn anything? 

Reply #56 Top

BTW KFXC, I didn't come here to be converted by you.  I came here to hear the understandings of others including yourself.  If you are laboring under the assumption that I am here to convert to your way of understanding, you are in for a big suprise.

Reply #57 Top

What do I have to believe in.......not your interpretation, but that the only path to ever lasting life is that path that Jesus took.  He was the way, because he showed mankind by his path and obedience to God, what mankind must do to acheive ever lasting life.  I think that you are miissing the entire poiint of what Jesus did and gave to you, and it was not a free ride.

Reply #58 Top

I have my own experiences that tell me otherwise.

what experiences?  What and how are your experiences more important than what the Revealed Word of God says?  Don't you understand?  It's not about you.  It's supposed to be about HIM. 

Until you can quote me a passage by Jesus that says otherwise, then I must assume that you are assuming.

we both have been.  You're not listening.  Lula and I disagree on many things but we are both in agreement here because it's so clear.  It's like saying we both see the sky is blue and you're debating us because looking thru your brown lenses the sky appears copper so it must be copper.  You're going by your own experience instead of the truth, and in light of eternity you are making one very big mistake.  BUt again, if you are of the elect and are really searching you will find out the truth that Jesus is indeed who he said he was. 

BTW KFXC, I didn't come here to be converted by you.

it's not up to me to convert anyone.  Only God converts. I can only give an answer to those who ask.  I was told to spread the seed (word of God).  That's all I do.  The Holy Spirit gives the increase.  Only the Holy Spirit waters what's been sowed.  My hands are tied there. 

Yes, KFC, I did read it and the gospel of Thomas as well. I gave my explanation of the words of Thomas, did you read it? Did you learn anything?

The gospel of Thomas is not an inspired book. 

Reply #59 Top

not your interpretation, but that the only path to ever lasting life is that path that Jesus took.

you're not taking the path that Jesus took.  You're not even in the same territory from what you're writing here.  You're going more by your experiences than you are HIS WORD. 

 You don't believe in the essentials.  That's what Jesus told the people in John 8.  He said three times..you will die in your sins because they would not believe that He was YHWH.  They didn't have the very basic thing but they thought they were ok.  It was a hard warning of the consequences that was sure to come their way as a result of their belief system. 

I'll be in prayer for you Whisper. 

 

Reply #60 Top

Whisper2 posts:

I came here to hear the understandings of others including yourself.

Yes, you've said this before and so I'm willing to take this at face value and no more than that. At the same time, should KFC or I write something that makes you want to delve more closely, then all the better all around.

KFC posts:

Are you forever learning Whisper without coming to the knowledge of the truth?

KFC,

I just can't help but think we have such an advantage precisely because of our Faith, while Whisper2 has already acknowledged (either in this blog or the other one) that he operates on proof not faith.

You don't believe in the essentials.

Exactly. And here is one biggy....

 Whisper2 posts:

Why do I insist that Jesus is not God?. Because he wasn't. He was the son, he said so many times throughout scripture.

This is a form of Arianism...they believed in the historical Jesus, but not the whole Jesus. Jesus of the Scriptures is definitely God, but it takes Divine Faith to believe that...something Whisper2 says he doesn't have.....(yet????)  O:)

 

I'll be in prayer for you Whisper.

Oh, ya, me too! But then again, I pray for all my JUser "family". 

Reply #61 Top

My experiences are those that come from following the path that Jesus laid out for mankind.  To relate those experiences to you would be a waste for both of us.  You'd never understand what I would be trying to explain to you and I could never make it clear to you no matter how hard I'd try to do so.   You would at least have to have some experience with the path, and as you told me earlier that is for others and not necessary for you.

The problem is not that I am seeing through brown lenses, it is the fact that you can't tolerate anyone that doesn't deem you an expert.  It has to be your way or no way.  You have a very closed mind and you simply can't seem to be  able to deal with others may not agree with you.  This is not a discussiion on your part, it is a demand that everyone see you as the authority.  I do not see you like that, to me you're just another person trying to explain what does not make sense to them.

Yes, I do operate on proof, and by the way so did the apostles.  Perhaps you should keep that in mind next time you encounter someone else that says the same thing to you.

Don't pray for me, if you desire to pray then pray for the well being of humanity.  Prayer should never be used for selfish purposes.

Reply #62 Top

And it is for selfish purposes because you are praying that I will see this your way.

Reply #63 Top

Who's trying to debunk God?  You read the words and declare to all that you know their meaning, I read the words, live them and they reveal themselves to me.  You don't trust God enough to give over to him the control of your life, then hide the truth of your lack of trust behind the words  "that it's not for everyone", I trust the words and God and give over all to discover it is for everyone, and that it is the only way.  Who has more faith? 

Take care of whom you accuse of satanism, KFC.

Reply #64 Top

Yes, I do operate on proof, and by the way so did the apostles.

Sorry, you are only partially correct about the Apostles operating on proof.

They believed Our Lord Jesus Christ was who He claimed to be by Faith.  

Remember Jesus asked them, "who do you say that I am?" It was Simon bar-Jona (St.Peter)who answered, YOu are Christ, the son of the living God." And Christ answered, "Blessed are you Simon Bar-Joha becasue flesh and blood has not revealed it  to you, but My Father who is in Heaven."  In verse 20, Jesus commanded them to tell no one for He still had work to do and His time had not come for every one to be told who He is.

 It was only after Jesus, having risen from the dead on the third day, gave them definitive proof He was the living God. He appeared in the midst of them and allowed Himself to be touched and ate with them. It was not without reason that Our Lord sought to convince the Apostles by the evidence of their senses that He had risen from the grave with the same Body which He had died on the Cross.

He did it becasue they were to be the ones, the direct witnesses, who would testify to the Jews and Gentiles (and later passed down to us by oral tradition and their sacred writings) that they might believe. Of this, St.John writes, "That which was from the beginning, which wehave heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands which handled the Word of life, (Jesus Christ, the Eternal Word made Man), we declare unto you. 1St.John 1:1. 

The first time the Risen Christ appeared, St. Thomas was not present with the other Apostles and so when they told him they had actually SEEN the Lord Jesus, he couldn't believe it and demanded that he see Our Lord with his own eyes and touch Him with his own hands before he would yield his faith.

Our Lord being God, knew that St.Thomas had the will to believe and therefore He appeared to him as he wished so as to remove all doubts from the mind of this apostles who would have to give testimony to the Resurrection and Truth. All his doubt vanished as soon as He touched Our Lord and felt the wounds. Not only did he believe Our Risen Lord was standing before him, but the Resurrection made him recognize Jesus' Divine Omnipotence as he had never done before and St.Thomas sank on his knees before Jesus and worshipped Him, THUS ATONING FOR HIS FORMER SKEPTICISM BY THE MOST EXPLICIT ACT OF FAITH, SAYING, "MY LORD AND MY GOD."

 

Reply #65 Top

Don't pray for me, if you desire to pray then pray for the well being of humanity. Prayer should never be used for selfish purposes.

And it is for selfish purposes because you are praying that I will see this your way.

I'm speaking for myself but I think the same of KFC when I say that our prayer for you (as it would be for the well-being of humanity) is an act of love and kindness.

 

Reply #66 Top

You would at least have to have some experience with the path, and as you told me earlier that is for others and not necessary for you.

I do know you are mixed up in something.  Or just mixed up because that's how you come across.  There's nothing wrong with having our experiences but they must never ever never take the place of God's revealed word to us.  Our experiences HAVE to match up with what He's telling us.  If not, it's nothing more than nonesense and us going our own way.  Satan's biggest trick is to get people away from God's word and onto themselves.  Remember what he told Eve..."you will be like God?"  He got her to doubt God's word first and then had her turn inward to herself to be all that she could be WITHOUT God.  That's his most clever trick and it works. 

Have you ever noticed that the letter "I" is in the middle of sIn and prIde?  It's not about I.  It's about HIM.  We need to get our pronouns in order when it comes to Godly things. 

I do not see you like that, to me you're just another person trying to explain what does not make sense to them.

I've been reading the scriptures for a very long time.  It makes perfect sense to me as whole.  But ya, every once in a while I come across something that I have to mull over, mediate on and sift thru my mind because I don't have complete understanding.  But what we're talking here is the essentials.  That I do understand.  That I do teach on a regular basis.  I don't teach my way but HIS way.  It's not about me.  It's all about HIM. 

I do not teach what does not make sense to me.  That would be absurd. 

And it is for selfish purposes because you are praying that I will see this your way.

no not at all.  I pray for anyone I have contact with that they will come to the full knowledge of the truth; that God will save their souls from the evil one who is working overtime to destroy men's souls. 

Who has more faith?

The one who reads, believes and follows Christ even when it makes no sense to do so at times. 

Yes, I do operate on proof

you just said you have more faith than me and yet now you say you operate on proof?  Can't be both.  Faith is walking without sight.  Proof demands you have to see to believe.  Can't have it both ways Whisper.  Are you confused?  Remember Thomas?  He needed proof.  He didn't have the faith it took to believe.  But Jesus said more blessed are they that believe without seeing everything clearly. 

Don't pray for me, if you desire to pray then pray for the well being of humanity. Prayer should never be used for selfish purposes.

When you pray for another it's called intercessory prayer and it has nothing to do with selfish purposes.  It's actually an act of love and compassion.   Most people (even  nominal or unbelievers)  cherish or even request another praying for them.  Your not wanting prayer speaks volumes. 

 

 

 

Reply #67 Top

"It was Simon bar-Jona (St.Peter)who answered, YOu are Christ, the son of the living God.""

Yes, the son of God.  You do notice the phrase that is used don't you?  You also notice that Jesus agreed with it don't you?  It seems that you are blind to that which is before your face so very often. 

"It was only after Jesus, having risen from the dead on the third day, gave them definitive proof He was the living God. He appeared in the midst of them and allowed Himself to be touched and ate with them. It was not without reason that Our Lord sought to convince the Apostles by the evidence of their senses that He had risen from the grave with the same Body which He had died on the Cross."

What you wrote above minus the "living God" is true and is just more of the proof given to the apostles.  The other proof is that of Jesus making them apostles to begin with and guiding them on their journey down his path.  Do try to recall that they walked pretty much the same path as Jesus, except of course his crucifixtion and resurection.   Every act that Jesus performed, every "miracle" they were witness to, and everything that they needed to know in order to also perform "miracles" he taught them.  In order to teach them they had to follow the path, that is the rule and it's not going to change either.  Sorry, they had plenty of proof and there is no denying it.

 

Get a grip KFC, your imagination is running wild and is totally out of control.  The only thing that I am involved in is following the path that Jesus laid out for all of mankind.  That however doesn't mean that I think that I am God either.  Those are your thoughts and words not mine and you have no right to put them in my mouth.  If you refuse to take the path that's your loss not mine.  However let me remind you of something, careful how you measure others, for as you measure so shall you be measured. 

If you believe without seeing, then you can follow the path, you refuse, so what's that say about your belief or lack of?  Not much.  You simply want to think that if you believe in Jesus you are automatically saved.  Not so.  Even the apostles had to make an effort and sacrifice, you are not more special than they.  You stand there with bible in hand memorizing every word and still you have no concept of what it says.  So you take bits and pieces from here and there and try to put it all together in order to make sense of an individual passage, sense that fits your logic and what you want it to say.  Take the path KFC, and learn.  You have nothing to lose and everything to gain.  The steps to do so are written there, you need nothing more than them.  

It would be better for you that you contemplate on that "I" thing that you so pointed out.  You are full of that "I" thing.  You're so self involved that you think it's your place to judge others.  You're so self involved that you think that you are special and you don't have to follow the path.  Well you're right there, you don't have to, however heaven "which is all around you but you can not see it" (ever wonder why you can't?) is not the place you'll see until you make the effort yourself.  That is the truth, you can just wait and see, that time is coming and it may very well be sooner that you think.  Don't act is if you are going to live forever, you aren't.

God knows my needs so your prayers are not necessary.

Reply #68 Top

Whisper2 posts:

quote me the scripture in which Jesus himself says that he is God.

Both KFC and I have cited St. John 8:48-59 which is irrefutable proof of Jesus calling Himself God. Here Jesus calls Himself  "I AM"  which is God's designation of Himself when Moses asked God what shall I tell the people is your name? God said to Moses, I AM WHO AM. Exodus 3:13-14.

And then there is the account of St.John 14:5-9, Christ's discourse with His Apostles after His Last Supper.

Thomas said to him: Lord we know not where thou goest; and how can we know the way? 6 Jesus said to him: I am the way, the truth and the life. No man cometh to the Father, but by Me. 7 If you had known Me, you would without doubt have known My Father also; and from henceforth, you shall know Him, and you have seen Him. 8 Philip said to Him: Lord, show us the Father and it is enough for us. 9 Jesus said to him: Have I been so long a time with you; and have you not known Me? Philip, he that seest Me sees the Father also...."

Whisper2,

Jesus had already told the Apostles that He and the Father are one and here by telling them the when they see Jesus they see God the Father confirms He's revealing that He is God.

Reply #69 Top

Lula posts:

"It was Simon bar-Jona (St.Peter)who answered, YOu are Christ, the son of the living God.""

Whisper2 posts:

Yes, the son of God. You do notice the phrase that is used don't you? You also notice that Jesus agreed with it don't you? It seems that you are blind to that which is before your face so very often.

You are employing a very literal reading of the Scriptures not understanding that in the case of Christ, one does not exclude the other. That there is but One God in Three Divine Persons is a Divine mystery and hard for our finite minds to understand. That's why we need God Himself to reveal and explain it which is exactly what Christ did when He said to Thomas and Philip. He that sees Me sees the Father also. 

 

Lula posts:

Here Jesus calls Himself "I AM" which is God's designation of Himself when Moses asked God what shall I tell the people is your name? God said to Moses, I AM WHO AM. Exodus 3:13-14.

And then there is the account of St.John 14:5-9, Christ's discourse with His Apostles after His Last Supper.

Thomas said to him: Lord we know not where thou goest; and how can we know the way? 6 Jesus said to him: I am the way, the truth and the life. No man cometh to the Father, but by Me. 7 If you had known Me, you would without doubt have known My Father also; and from henceforth, you shall know Him, and you have seen Him. 8 Philip said to Him: Lord, show us the Father and it is enough for us. 9 Jesus said to him: Have I been so long a time with you; and have you not known Me? Philip, he that seest Me sees the Father also...."

Whisper2,

Jesus had already told the Apostles that He and the Father are one and here by telling them the when they see Jesus they see God the Father confirms He's revealing that He is God.

Up to this point they believe by Faith what Jesus says of Himself. 

That's why I said it was only after Jesus rose from the dead that gave them definitive proof He was the living God...True Man and True God at the same time. Only God can raise Himself from the dead and appear in the midst of them and allow Himself to be touched and eat with them.

...........................

God knows my needs so your prayers are not necessary.

Well, if you are truly following the same path as Jesus, then prayers for others are necessary.

Did not Jesus Himself pray for others?

 

Reply #70 Top

Do try to recall that they walked pretty much the same path as Jesus, except of course his crucifixtion and resurection.

Actually, St.Peter was crucified upside down and many other of Christ's followers were crucified as well. They were martyrs for the Faith. Death by crucifixion was very common in those days.

And as far as resurrection, consider this solemn truth. We will all be resurrected (rise) from the dead. That will be the first event at the end of the world.

Reply #71 Top

Dear Luapilgrim, do you really think that that book was written for you to guess at?  Yes it is a literal translation, the book was written literally, the only thing that is missing is one's understanding of it and of course one's belief that it means exactly what it says..  Some think that what is said to have happened in these texts couldn't have possibly happened, that because Jesus taught in parables, all that is written is a parable.  It is not, and yes the bible is literal, the texts mean exactly what they say.    As I said to KFC. follow the path, the instructions are written within.  It is the path that makes all clear and the literal version understandable.  Stop trying to explain to yourself what everything means and let it unfold it's self to you.  Your mind can not understand or grasp it's contents, it if far beyond it's comprehension.  Your soul understands it perfectly, be quiet and let it explain it to you. It's that tiny little voice that is so often silent because your mind is always doing the talking and trying to explain everything to you, even that which it doesn't understand.  You've heard that little voice before I know you have, and it's never lied to you.  Give it a chance to speak to you, it will reveal wonders that you never knew existed and it will never stear you wrong or cause you harm.  God gave you that little voice to aid you and guide you where you must go to find him.