Put your Money where your Mouth is

Or why Liberals never do

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/04/28/sanctuary-cities-fight-arizonas-new-immigration-law-offering-sanctuary/
from JoeUser Forums

Arizona is in the news of late.  The passed what amounts to an enforcement law of a federal law - i.e. they passed a law stating they will enforce a federal law.

The law was very carefully written in expectations of being challenged on constitutional grounds.  And of course every liberal from Obama down to Gavin Newsome has both decried the law, and threatened (if standing permitted) to take it to court.  But even liberal constitutional scholars are doubting any will succeed given the law is an enforcement of a federal law.

So, taking another tact, many liberals have called for boycotts of Arizona (some idiots are even trying to boycott Arizona Tea - a soft drink made in New York).  That is their right, and more power to them.  But those self same outraged liberals just cant seem to bring themselves to do anything but jawbone their outrage.

Their feigned indignity is stripped bare by their unwillingness to help those they cry are being hurt by the new law.  San Francisco, a "Sanctuary" city, has done and refuses to do anything for these poor down trodden criminals!  They claim they will give them sanctuary, but then shy away from actually doing anything concrete.  For like most liberals, they love to yell about perceived injustices, but refuse to put up their money to rectify the injustices.

I am sure SF will not allow any of its government staff to plan conventions in Arizona.  You know about conventions, right?  Those are the things liberals condemn when business does, while doing so from their own conventions that are merely non-taxed perks of leeching off the public dole.  So Arizona may lose a few bucks from the fat cats of SF.  But I do not think they will see much of an impact (government conventions are notorious for destructive behaviour and lousy tipping).

So we have just another example of liberals having big mouths, tight wads, and no guts.  Lots of talk, but no walks.

politics
14,606 views 33 replies
Reply #1 from JoeUser Forums Top

I don't know why anybody in politics gives a crap about illegals. They can't vote and don't pay taxes.

My only question to someone who opposes this is...

Why?

None of the illegals have the constitutional right to any protections. If you are worried about the poor unfortunate soul who is detained for a while because he can't produce some form of identification, what gives? I walk out of the house with my wallet in my pocket, always. It is not a problem for me to show that I belong here.

Don't assume that I'm some sort of racist (I know you know better Doc). I am for US citizenship. If you are doing the right thing if it's becoming a citizen or here on a work visa, I think that is great. Come in and enjoy all that this land has to offer. If not, I don't want you here.

 

Reply #2 from JoeUser Forums Top

Don't assume that I'm some sort of racist (I know you know better Doc). I am for US citizenship. If you are doing the right thing if it's becoming a citizen or here on a work visa, I think that is great. Come in and enjoy all that this land has to offer. If not, I don't want you here.
End of quote

I heard a comment the other day that made me smirk.  It seems that when someone claims that all illegals are hispanic (a falsehood) for the purpose of strengthening the border, they are called racists.  When a person calls all illegals hispanic for the purpose of the Arizona law, they are called enlightened.

Which is just more political speak for the reality that the race baiters of San Francisco and elsewhere are really just closet racists.

Multiplicity - Control multiple PCs using one keyboard and mouse
Reply #3 from Stardock Forums Top

hi just john,

If you are worried about the poor unfortunate soul who is detained for a while because he can't produce some form of identification, what gives? I walk out of the house with my wallet in my pocket, always. It is not a problem for me to show that I belong here.
End of quote

Have you ever watched any World War 2 movies? Aren't you familiar with the infamous line?

"let me see your papers!"

If you must live in a society in which you, as a regular citizen are required to provide documentation on demand, 24/7, that you are not one of "them" then the society of which are a part is not worth living in to begin with.

Today, it is illegal immigrants. Tomorrow, it can be turned into anything those in power decide. Anti-war peaceniks, "tax-evaders", "domestic terrorists" and so forth. Methinks the secessionist movement in several states may be gaining a lot more steam than some would suspect!

 

Reply #4 from JoeUser Forums Top

Have you ever watched any World War 2 movies? Aren't you familiar with the infamous line?

"let me see your papers!"
End of quote

Arty sounds like you HAVE been watching too many WWII movies. That or the opposition's talking points. Read the law, it only re-enforces the Federal law which is already in place (and ignored by the law breakers).

I don't like getting searched at the airport either, I'm not a terrorist. But I realize it is for my and other travelers safety. If there were not terrorists we wouldn't have to go through this. Well same for identification, if everyone respected US immigration law, this wouldn't be an issue. It seems the minority of people always ruin it for the majority doesn't it?

Why stop there? Why should I have to show ID if I'm pulled over on a traffic violation? Why should I have to show ID when I show the the bank teller your account number? You're right, no more ID's, what a great idea. That Walmart cashier that asks for ID when I use a credit card is just being a Nazi.

Reply #5 from JoeUser Forums Top

[quote who="Artysim" reply="3" id="2608462"]Have you ever watched any World War 2 movies? Aren't you familiar with the infamous line?

"let me see your papers!"[quote]

Oh I so wanted someone to quote this!  And while we share the same trepidation, I fear you are uninformed!

Obama has already done this!  With the abortion of Health Care (which is neither).

And the law?  Check it out.  The links are posted.  It specifically says you cannot be a Nazi about it.  But Obamacare?  it is required.  I know you love him, but in this case, you just trashed him (and done well).

Illegal immigrants are no more required to produce anything than any other person.  Why?  You cannot tell them apart.  WHich is America.  But when in a situation that requires documentation (all too frequently these days), they can run the documentation through the computer to see if it is legit.  And the $150 documenation you pick up on the street corner?  You will probably get busted for it.

Look at it this way.  You see a credit card?  can you tell it is forged?  I cannot looking at it.  But run it through a reader and you probably can.

say hello to the reader.

Reply #6 from JoeUser Forums Top

That or the opposition's talking points. Read the law, it only re-enforces the Federal law which is already in place (and ignored by the law breakers).
End of quote

Exactly!  Everyone who has voiced opposition to this law, has not read it and does not have a clue about it.

Would it surpise Arty to know that while mexico condemns it, their law is far more authoratarian and restrictive than the AZ law?

I bet it will.

Reply #7 from Stardock Forums Top

Isn't the typical Liberal way to demand other people's money to fund their ideas?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Reply #8 from JoeUser Forums Top

If you must live in a society in which you, as a regular citizen are required to provide documentation on demand, 24/7, that you are not one of "them" then the society of which are a part is not worth living in to begin with.
End of quote

I would agree with you, if that were true about Arizona or the US.  You are at risk of being required to provide documentation in all societies, Arty, to a far greater degree outside the US than in it.  It's a bit disingenuous to suggest otherwise.

And the Nazi analogy quickly breaks down when one recalls that there was 1) a small declared war on, and 2) those Nazis were mostly looking for Jewish citizens.

Reply #9 from JoeUser Forums Top

Quoting MasonM, reply 7
Isn't the typical Liberal way to demand other people's money to fund their ideas?
End of MasonM's quote

Yes, but then governments do not use their money (they have none), they always use OPM.  And if you are going to elect a loony liberal one that puts the rights of non-citizens ahead of yours, they should step up and put their citizens money where their mouth is.

 

Reply #10 from Stardock Forums Top

And the Nazi analogy quickly breaks down when one recalls that there was 1) a small declared war on, and 2) those Nazis were mostly looking for Jewish citizens.
End of quote

Actually, a better example would be the old Soviet Union, or even the eastern block.  How soon we forget Checkpoint Charlie.

Reply #11 from JoeUser Forums Top

Actually, a better example would be the old Soviet Union, or even the eastern block. How soon we forget Checkpoint Charlie.
End of quote

Problem there is that the political system of the USSR is to be admired.  It's what the left is striving for here, after all.

Reply #12 from JoeUser Forums Top

Quoting Daiwa, reply 11
Problem there is that the political system of the USSR is to be admired.  It's what the left is striving for here, after all.
End of Daiwa's quote

And that is where anyone can yell hypocrites to them.  The MSM never will, but then you do not see any of them defending the lies around here.

Reply #13 from JoeUser Forums Top

Have you ever watched any World War 2 movies? Aren't you familiar with the infamous line?

"let me see your papers!"

If you must live in a society in which you, as a regular citizen are required to provide documentation on demand, 24/7, that you are not one of "them" then the society of which are a part is not worth living in to begin with.
End of quote

That's an interesting point of view, but when was the last time you were stopped by a police officer? Don't they always ask for identification? And I don't mean only when driving. Does a company you apply for not ask for identification? Identification is ask for many things and these things can be denied if an identification can not be provided at the time. But let's be realistic here, you are not concerned with the whole "let me see your papers" issue, you are actually concerned with particular people being asked. In the end, this is nothing but a racial issue and another way to pin racism on Republicans and that is the reality.

I am Hispanic and even I believe something needs to be done. Policies need to be updates, reform is necessary. And I also believe crime should not be rewarded so making these illegals legal is not the way to go in my opinion. A crime is a crime and punishment should be applied when necessary. I'm sure the average person protesting this law would not hesitate to agree with it if a family member was somehow hurt by an illegal (physically or financially).

We should not ignore the crime when we can not even prove the true reason why they came here in the first place.

Reply #14 from JoeUser Forums Top

And that is where anyone can yell hypocrites to them. The MSM never will, but then you do not see any of them defending the lies around here.
End of quote

Yup.  They never say such policies (as they perceive them, that is, just to be clear) are Stalinesque.  Which would be true if the policies were as they perceive them.

Reply #15 from JoeUser Forums Top

Is this a racist law because AZ is so close to the Mexican border? I have read it and it doesn't say anything about picking on 'brown people' or any of the other derogatory terms the MSM has applied to them.

It says that if you are arrested or detained and there is a question of your immigration status, it can be verified. It says specifically that you can't be stopped solely on the basis of immigration status.

All of the opposition is running around acting like this is something new. I'd be willing to bet that I could pass around any of your cars and find a violation worthy of pulling you over. Leaning up against the wall at the corner store???? Loitering. Hopping in the back of someone’s truck ... yep that's a crime too. So what's the difference?

Now they are spelling it out. We are going to question your immigration status if we think it is in question. We will send you back where you came from. 10.8 million people are in this country illegally. What is so wrong with requiring them to follow our laws to live here?

 

Reply #16 from JoeUser Forums Top

What is so wrong with requiring them to follow our laws to live here?
End of quote

Nothing, of course.  But there are 10.8 million potential reasonsvotes why pretending otherwise is appealing to the race hustlers.

Reply #17 from JoeUser Forums Top

All of the opposition is running around acting like this is something new
End of quote

You are of course correct.  It is actually not a new law.  It is a new enforcement policy.  In otherwords, the law is already on the books - at the federal level!

Obama hates Mexicans!  That is the only logical conclusion one can reach.

Reply #18 from JoeUser Forums Top

Quoting Daiwa, reply 16

What is so wrong with requiring them to follow our laws to live here?
Nothing, of course.  But there are 10.8 million potential reasonsvotes why pretending otherwise is appealing to the race hustlers.
End of Daiwa's quote

Maybe we should start a recall campaign.  it is obvious that Obama is at fault (it is the enforcement of a federal law), and he is in charge of the feds.  So by extension, he hates Hispanics (racist no less).  Since everyone knows that every illegal immigrant is Hispanic right Sharpton?

Good thing being a racist is not illegal.  That is the only thing saving Sharpton and Jackson from Jail.

Reply #19 from JoeUser Forums Top

I would agree with you, if that were true about Arizona or the US. You are at risk of being required to provide documentation in all societies, Arty, to a far greater degree outside the US than in it. It's a bit disingenuous to suggest otherwise.
End of quote

Why not at all!

Let's do a quick example;

When I go outside for a run, I carry no identification on me. The only thing in my pockets is my house key, end of story. Legally, an officer can not randomly acost me and throw me in jail because I can't prove I am who I say I am. At least, that's how things are in Canada.

Under the law in Arizona, if I were to go for the same leisurely jog?

Well, I'd probably be fine. Since I'm a white guy in a running outfit, the chances that a cop is going to even stop me is slim to none. However, if I were latino that would be a bad idea. And, as with all things in life, the proof is in the pudding. And that would be;

"A Latino truck driver outside Phoenix was taken into custody by law enforcement at a weigh station. He pulled in to have the truck looked at, was apparently approached by Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents and asked for ID. He showed them his commercial driver’s license. They asked him for more ID. He told them his social security number. They cuffed him took him to the central office in Phoenix and called his wife to bring his social security card and birth certificate. The truckdiver is identifying himself to media only as “Abdon” and he is an American citizen born in the USA.

The ICE agents said this was all just standard procedure"

http://coloradoindependent.com/52039/the-new-birthers-arizona-truck-driver-arrested-forced-to-show-birth-certificate

Reply #20 from JoeUser Forums Top

Under the law in Arizona, if I were to go for the same leisurely jog?
End of quote

I guess if you were running with the bag of cash you stole from a near by bank, then yes. The law clearly states that it must be "lawful" contact. I.E. there must be a reason. In the case I described, I'm sure the police would give you a lift home to get your ID. What you and most liberals want is: No ID=immunity from the law. Visitors to the US (invited and uninvited) are REQUIRED by FEDERAL law to carry ID at all times. I'm sure police are not congregating at pools and gyms, looking for illegals. About the only time I don't carry ID is when I'm doing yard work, and then it is no problem for me to open my front door to get it. Even at the beach I lock my ID in my vehicle (because it is illegal to drive without your license). If you have some statistics as to how many illegals are apprehended while jogging, or swimming (across the Rio Grande excluded) I'd be interested to see them. Until then you are just making excuses for an illegal activity.

Edit:

Your story about the truck driver is sad but it really only tells half the story doesn't it? Was the driver's behavior suspicious? Did his drivers license picture appear in good shape and  reassemble his current appearance? This information might ruin an otherwise good harassing Hispanic's story or discrimination law suit ($$$). Did the weigh station do this to every Hispanic driver that passed through that day? Or only this one? Seems to me they had reason to question this particular man's identity. Maybe if his license is beat up or his appearance has changed, he should consider acquiring another form of photo ID (available at the DMV for a nominal charge). Personally, I always carry my military ID along with my drivers license. My wife carries the same, plus her green card. My step daughter is visiting for 4 months, she is carrying her Chinese passport and US visa (both have photos)...doesn't seem that hard to do for me. Of course laziness or lack of responsibility seem to be the new norm, so maybe it's just me.

Reply #21 from JoeUser Forums Top

Also Arty in response to the link you provided above, it might also be fair to show the authors (John Tomasic) leanings on other articles (no surprises). They can be found here: http://coloradoindependent.com/author/johntomasic/

Seems his position is clear enough, and that's OK since he is a commentator.

Reply #22 from JoeUser Forums Top

Quoting Artysim, reply 19
Let's do a quick example;

When I go outside for a run, I carry no identification on me. The only thing in my pockets is my house key, end of story. Legally, an officer can not randomly acost me and throw me in jail because I can't prove I am who I say I am. At least, that's how things are in Canada.
End of Artysim's quote

Yes they can.  if there was a robbery, rape  or other crime committed, they can lock you up until you can produce documentation.  They can do it just for the hell of it on a "suspicion".  "He was drinking your honor".  In none of those cases would you be convicted of a crime, but you would be locked up.

Under the law in Arizona, if I were to go for the same leisurely jog?
End of quote

Yes, and easier. In canada, they do not have a law that explicitly forbids racial profiling.  In Arizona they do.

Well, I'd probably be fine. Since I'm a white guy in a running outfit, the chances that a cop is going to even stop me is slim to none. However, if I were latino that would be a bad idea. And, as with all things in life, the proof is in the pudding. And that would be;

"A Latino truck driver outside Phoenix was taken into custody by law enforcement at a weigh station. He pulled in to have the truck looked at, was apparently approached by Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents and asked for ID. He showed them his commercial driver’s license. They asked him for more ID. He told them his social security number. They cuffed him took him to the central office in Phoenix and called his wife to bring his social security card and birth certificate. The truckdiver is identifying himself to media only as “Abdon” and he is an American citizen born in the USA.

The ICE agents said this was all just standard procedure"

http://coloradoindependent.com/52039/the-new-birthers-arizona-truck-driver-arrested-forced-to-show-birth-certificate
End of quote

You would be fine as a white guy running down the street in a black neighborhood after a reporting of a shooting by a white guy? (actually just think non-black)?  Does not seem to be the case in NYC in 2003.  But then why confuse the issue with facts?  I can come up with as many anecdotal stories as you.

Oh, and I would like to see the rest of the story.  Because my BIL was driving home and was approaching a Border patrol station when he realized he had forgotten his wallet in his hotel room.  He did a u-turn to go back to retrieve it.  needless to say, he was pulled over.  But after explaining the situation to the agents, he was allowed to go on his way with a warning (illegal u-turn). 

My BIL?  More Mexican than Vincente Fox.

Reply #23 from JoeUser Forums Top

I guess if you were running with the bag of cash you stole from a near by bank, then yes. The law clearly states that it must be "lawful" contact. I.E. there must be a reason.
End of quote

Which is better odds than you have almost anywhere else in the country.  Cops can pull you and lock you up because they do not like your license plates!  They have 24 hours to come up with justification, but that does not stop them from doing so.  At least Arizona has spelled it out in black and white - in other words, you do have more rights there than you do in Canada.

 

Reply #24 from JoeUser Forums Top

Seems his position is clear enough, and that's OK since he is a commentator.
End of quote

Yes, given my experience and that of my family, I really do want to hear the rest of the story.  But you will never see it in print.  it is not PC.

Reply #25 from JoeUser Forums Top

Arty, Arty, Arty.  You are having to seriously stretch, and badly.

Non-sequitor, and an illogical one at that.

ICE stops of truckers @ weigh stations (just in case you don't know, which I doubt, truckers smuggle a shitload of drugs, not to mention humans, into this country through AZ) is hardly 'proof in the pudding' that a Latino going for a jog in Phoenix would be a 'bad idea'.

Furthermore, the law does not allow an officer to 'randomly accost' someone & 'throw them in jail' just because they 'can't prove they are who they say they are'.  That's just a load of hogwash, garbage, bullshit; whatever you want to call it, it's not the truth.