Winter, I'd like to have a chat with you about the 4th Edition D&D Rule-set you'll be using. Technically, when it comes to game terms, Dragonlance is a AD&D game as well and will run by the same rule-set. I have all the books from the 2.5 edition rule-set which is what I was going to convert into the rules of Elemental, but, seeing as how we'll both be using D&D Rule-Sets in our Mods, perhaps some collaboration is in order. Why do two separate rule-sets when one will suffice. I wouldn't mind using the 4th Edition rules as you are, I just don't have the official books for that rule-set like I do for 2.5.

Are you on Yahoo Messenger?

nm...you have an incoming PM here on the forums. Give me a minute to write out my plan you'll be getting a message.

Awesome ideas.  As a D&D fan also, I totally support and look forward to this mod.

This sounds like one of those epic idea's like fall from heaven. It'll either be Awesome. Or it'll be a failiure.

I think it'll be successful.

I'll try to support this and contribute some of my own idea's if you want.

I am impressed by the set-up work. Stunned, really.

But a few words of advice.

I was long involved with modding for Baldur's Gate II.

One mod (ToB-Refinements) was modular: we couldn't do *everything* we initially hoped to do, but we did release (and maintained) a fine product, I think. We kept our goals reasonable, step by step.

I was also involved with Return To Windspear: a large, ambitious project with a rather large team of really talented people (not talking about myself, I was a late addiction, actually). I can swear on anything that's holy: RtW's material was mind-blowing, a level of quality never seen before in the community. Leaps and leaps beyond the official Baldur's Gate II content's quality.

But it was just too large a project. Even with several people involved, it was never completed. And nothing was salvaged from that gargantuan effort. I still feel the pain everytime I think about it. I've stayed out of modding ever since because of that "trauma".

So my advice: aim for quality material, but do your math with the quantity. There's a limit on how much a single person (or single team) can do before time issues or plain weariness catch up. Modding is, ultimately, a dirty, tiresome work.

I'm not being negative! I take the time to write this because I'd love to see this completed.    I just think that one has to be realistic for this to happen I extend the advice to any other modder who happens to be reading this (RavenX for the Dragonlance mod?)

to echo the poster above me - you have great ideas but a ton of content. I would recommend narrowing down the scope of the mod to its necessary essentials. At which point you can always add to it. If you take on too much too fast you will become overwhelmed and the mod could seem unfocused. 

Good luck

My theory is that all mods without exceptions start as failures and only a few flourish to success. But that's a topic that shouldn't worry me. What ever must be, will be.

About content, well, universe creation is a hobby of mine and the more developed (which doesn't mean used) the more fleshed it can be done. Plus, I'm not in a hurry (I'd say that a minimum of two years to finish it... and I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for it to be finished so soon unless I suddenly become millionaire and can stop working). I'll add things slowly and will adapt things as needed. And if that includes rollbacks, so be it.

About other people's help... Well, I cannot forbid people from doing things on their own but I won't ask for any help (unless I'm like desperate for something in concrete) until I have some real to release. Writing walls of texts is easy but I don't want to sell smoke or the Eiffel Tower. I can waste my time, but not other's people. But if any of you have a silver tongue and wants to try to change my mind, feel free to try.

For now I'm not working per se in the mod. I'm actually multitasking (poorly) in other things about Elemental (some custom heroes and an amazon faction between other things). I'll be for a time developing modding skills (for now XML, Python when it comes to it) so no work will be done for this meanwhile... not beyond cultivating the Everdream universe (which actually has a few years) or maybe small prototypes.

But thank you all for your words. I want to keep my feet on solid ground. But in this phase I think I can still afford to... dream. Once serious work starts, I'll try not to roam the field chasing wild dreams. And hopefully many of you will be here to remind me if I fail.

Take it to the Wizards forums, please. 

I'll be keeping an eye on this.  Very nice intro, Winterspring.  To yourself and Raven, I do DM 4E if you ever need to bend another ear.  Hmmmm.  Makes me wonder if skill challenges could be incorporated somehow.

(Edited: I originally thought Dying Sun was being created by Stardock, Misread the post)

Since I know this is mostly just one person modding, please accept my advice. I've been modding games since Starsiege Tribes, and I've seen a pattern repeated over and over again. Modders sometimes bite off more than they can chew and "Burnout Syndrome" sets in. People who take on massive projects like this eventually become overwhelmed and start to dread modding and all the playtesting becomes absolutely painful, some even start losing track of things and getting 'foggy headed' when they go to mod (sometimes part of "Burnout Syndrome").

So if you're going to do all this yourself, my advice is to do it casually in increments, listen to music while you mod (if it's not distracting), and create a list of things you "Must Do" and things you'd "Like to Do" and separate them, be sure to back up files every time you edit them, and if you're ever stumped on something don't be afraid to ask for help. Keep in mind you're going to be looking at a lot of code and a lot of repetitive tasks, and there are a lot of modders lurking on Stardock forums who have experience in this sort of thing.

Sage advice if ever I've heard it, mega mods are best to start out with the core essentials and then introduce gradual incremental changes, tweaks, bugfixes and content from there.

Details and otehr things may change but the initial model is already decided and from there gradually expand. It should start by developing first the most basic/core mechanics common to the whole mod (like the first basic classes, text adventures...) and once done, add a couple of basic factions (actually, just one cloned) that would serve as introduction to the mod, tests and some "civil war" storyline (did I say cloned factions?). From there, it should be a matter of adding the next faction and any mechanic associated to it (plus bug fixes, refinement of previous mechanics...).

I'd like it to make it step by step, making sure that each step is fully playable before moving on. Well, maybe not in the AI department. I'm supposing that it'll take a very long time before I can actually do anything decent but I know that whatever I add should be usable by the AI.

But yeah, not in a hurry, try to take it easy, relax, not squeeze the fun out of it and carefully trace what I can do, what should be done, what I'd like to do and what I cannot do.

All that said, I must ask: what made you think that Dying Sun was made by Stardock? Mod section and all...

Edit:

And not that I want to make everything myself (music and 3D models are impossible, for example, I tried) but until there is not some stuff backing up these ideas, I don't consider fair to involve other people. But as I said, if someone wants to try to change my mind, he is free to do so.

Wow a thundercat !

Just in the monsters you keep the spiders ? Cause it's a classic and i dont see them in your list.

Oh and btw looks great !

If you need a proof reader who goes over and correct spelling errors and typos like a psychopathic grammar nazi let me know, I'll read over anything you write, run it through spell checkers, and look for grammatical errors and such.

Oh yeah if it's DnD it definitely has to have spiders, small ones and giant spiders, and Dark Elves, caus Dark Elves and Spiders go together like death and darkness.

With Python not in the horizon, me not finding the animations for my Amazon Sovereigns, a week of poor health and an epic headache, wanting (and achieving) my first Master Quest victory... blah blah blah... I have been doing some "art" stuff for the mod. I only needed the Greyfang and its clone for when I start working in the XMLs but hey, why not do some of the others too?

I had been doing some crests before the release of the game but in hindsight... they suck. Royally. Most of them at least. But I'm more or less happy with these even if they aren't exceptional (I tend to functional stuff, so if you find these "basic", try to imagine the ones that I don't show ).

*Wintersong casts Summon Bump*



Well, more than a "bump" is more of a "Hey, letting you know that..." kind of post.

I have been busy with my work, went a month on vacations, went back to the office to be overflowed with work and more work (hell, if I keep my job next week it's going to be a "miracle" ). All that means, for those who haven't guessed it, that I haven't being modding anything. (surprise!)

But taking advantage of a free weekend, I have taken the opportunity to restart the modding thingy. With plans of keep on working on it, obviously. So although we are in a middle of a beta with possible new beta build next week and all, I have started working on a couple of the factions for this mod. I don't plan to finish them yet as there is still too much in the air and all that, but at least they should be playable as a basic level.

I have put aside Greyfang for a short while (be back like Terminator) and dealt with Veralux and our beloved bloodthirsty elves of Coeur de Glace. Just some basic XML avoiding tech trees. So far so good. Despite the Sion head. ¬.¬

Veralux won't have a custom tech tree anytime soon but I want Glace to have it whenever I can deal with it. They must not use Gold and I think that I should be able to alter all the costs to Materials with not too much effort (or so I hope). It would be nice to have them paying upkeep in Materials, buy stuff in the shop with Materials... but I'm assuming that they will keep getting Gildar from the population. Python maybe?

Veralux is quite rich in clothing options compared to Glace, which is quite limited but only because it reflects the disregard of those bloody elves to material commodities beyond certain basic levels (they advocate for apocalypse so get ready to see lots of peasant and crappy clothes!!). And while Veralux uses the standard grasslands terrain, Glace uses (obviously) the winter terrain. I cannot wait to the day in which I can actually set the default terrain to winter instead of barren lands and that units receive cold damage each turn not in a city... 

Pics so at least you get a glimpse of what's going on in Everdream:

Who the hell is the last one? Shhhh. Don't pay attention to her.

Elves from Coeur de Glace are blue so if you wanted some kind of smurfs or "sad" elves, there you have them. They are almost complete if we ignore: I haven't had the time for custom skins, equipment section is quite "Uf!", as right now they can only use non metal armours, which is as intended but needs to add some more options for them (optimized leather armours or whatever). They have the advantage of the bows that right now sucks because they cannot recruit those archer units until they can build the archery centre... And I made them Evil Kingdom to avoid for now the Empire tech tree. Custom buildings for.... uff, not in the mood for that now. Once most of it is really done, I'll start with that part. Meanwhile, placeholder Kingdom buildings FTW!!!

As they are now, these factions go together (they share files as part of Dying Sun mod) and don't work with mods like Elves by Heavenfall. It's a tech tree issue. Not that you can download these factions now, right?

I should also take time to update some of the pics in the first posts, and more importantly some info... But if I have to choose between doing that (who is going to mind if I don't do it?) or keep having fun messing with XMLs, I think that I prefer the later.

Hey, I see you changed the title to include the eMOD tag. It's sort of being used for mods that are ready for download, so it would be great if you didn't use it (just trying to keep it clean for the users). Nice update by the way, it's always fun to read what people are doing.

Also, if you want to use anything I've posted in other mods (mounts, the goblin models, the elves tileset from the community project) you should feel free to do so. Anything to speed along the creative process. If there's any other way I can help out, let me know.

Well, this is pretty impressive stuff, but here's my issue with it: are you sure it is legal to use those images - I recognize some from D&D, a copyrighted piece of work...

About content, for now I stick to basic stuff (I'm re-meeting with XMLs and such after more than a month of non-modding). But much appreciated the offer. I need to start checking the eLib though, because without it I'm not releasing anything.

Yes, still not legal. Like Harry Potter fanfiction. But one of the goals is to use the Elemental mod sharing structure so the mod will not contain anything that could break the EULA. I'll let that sink in its consequences to the mod itself and let the forums decide what it actually means before I update the thread with the latest info about its design goals. Which will happen once I add a download link to the actual mod.

In any case, if someone really feels uncomfortable with the pics and cannot wait for me to slowly (and painfully) replace them, let me know in this thread and I'll happily remove them. Don't sue me if I replace them with sticky figures though.

Thanks for your answer . I didn't mean to sound offensive, and it's great to know you'll use non-copyrighted stuff when the time comes (you know, makes it easier to advertise on other forums without fear of having the topic locked...)

Eventually, this thread should look more in a style like this:

With factions being presented (unless I get a better idea beyond using the Crest) in a way like:

 or 

I will miss Dorian Cleavenger's angel though. Oh well, I suppose that as I'm spamming this forum section again...

Need shoopkeepers, tweak more the colours and basic units...

Aettryneland are all "undead" (some kind of "frozen/frost? zombies" mostly) and deal with undead in general. The Scarlet Empire (hey, a name is a name) is a bunch of vampires making sure that humans survive. No, nothing noble going on. Guess why. Right now I have put them as Kingdom but they actually would be better suited as Empire, abusing normal humans as meatshields and creating powerful vampire lords to lead them. Nothing original, I know. Sue me. The Scarlet Empire is a splinter faction from Aettryneland and although both are evil beyond doubt, both have different points of view about "life".

Helle is the dragon oriented faction and Greyfang is the poor little faction being destined to be the "basic faction" for the mod. Unless Randolf, their Sovereign, convinces me otherwise.

Pro Tip of the Day: beware of  Copy & Paste abuses.

Awww, almost a month wihtout updates. *blames work and Christmas* If I were to update the OP, the version number would be higher but as I won't be updating it yet, you are stuck living in the past. With 1.1 (and 1.2 in the horizon), it's time of custom tech trees for the different factions (note to self: check again the LIBmod) and the "amazonation" of Moyen-Uni (ESRB AO rating, there I go! ) as was prophetised by myself long time ago (poor Les Elus). News from Stardock about the future of modding can change so many things though...

So while I make some custom crests (great stress reliever for me), prepare the following chapter of my pending AAR (no, I didn't discontinue it) and think of ways to make the tech trees interesting and with unique flavors (materials based economy for winter elves... which tree did I fall from? ), I also happen to try to flesh out more stuff for the mod (for the dreaded "Time to create Quests" day and because it helps in faction differentiation "through flavor", considering that most are human factions).

Some "terms" from a "Veraluxan" point of view:

The Dream:

All the creation in which people lives, created by The Dreamer.

The Dreamer:

For believers who follow the teachings of the Primordial Elves, she is the creator of The Dream as it is her dream and will destroy it when she wakes up.

All believers accept that The Dreamer is just one of many that may exist dreaming different worlds but that Everdream is her dream.

Non believers consider The Dreamer an old mythological figure from the times of the Primordial Elves.

Primordial Elves:

First intelligent beings to populate Everdream. Thought by The Ancients of the ways of the world and The Dreamer.

They became extinct during the Lords of Maere invasion of Everdream.

The Ancients:

Mysterious intelligent beings who brought civilization and knowledge to the Primordial Elves. Banished by The Dreamer after they shared information about her.

Discussions about The Ancients are common as their existence seem to contradict that the Primordial Elves were the first intelligent beings of Everdream and there is also speculation about them being Dreamers much like The Dreamer.

Believers Of The Dream:

Those who believe in The Dreamer.

Avatar:

Name given to the Sovereign in Everdream.

An Avatar's profession may be any but they find themselves leading the remains of their faction during the difficult times of the Dying Sun.

Weaver:

Any magic user of Everdream. Sometimes called Dreamweavers.

Weavers weave their dreams and desires into The Dream, altering it to fit their wishes. Some types of magic and the abuses of weaving are supposed to put at risk The Dream's continuity.

The Awakening:

It can refer to a few things, one of them being the moment in which The Dreamer will awaken and Everdream will be destroyed.

Commonly used by weavers to refer to the moment in which a person, usually during her teenager years, develops her weaving abilities. Most of those persons die during or shortly after The Awakening, destroyed by their own power.

Maere:

World of nightmares. Place of origin of the Lords of Maere and the orci.

Abuses in the weaving by the weavers of the younger races created breaches into Maere that were used by some of inhabitants of the nightmarish world to invade Everdream.

Scholars are divided about if Maere is some kind of common world that haunts the different Dreamers or if it is part of The Dream but presented like if it was something different.

Lords of Maere:

These warlords lead great armies of orci across the breaches between Maere and Everdream. This fully armored figures were considered the most skilled warriors to even walk over Everdream and powerful weavers that brought with them the use of Attor.

The Lords destroyed the Primordial Elves and conquered Everdream, stablishing themselves as Sovereigns of their own domains in Everdream. As time passed, the Lords grew weaker and were corrupted by the influence of Everdream. That allowed a revolt finally ended with the dominion of the Lords of Maere and destroyed the portals that linked Maere and Everdream. Rumours talk about at least one survivor Lord of Maere in the far west.

Orci:

Brutish beings that came from Maere at the orders of the Lords of Maere. They enjoy enslaving, killing or destroying anything that crosses their path.

Trapped on Everdream after the portals to Maere were destroyed, orci settled for a time in western lands. Until they started the slow but relentless assault on the nations to the east and that brought to an end powerful nations like the Kiku Empire. Internal strife and the heroic defense by the Kingdom of Greyfang stalled the orci efforts of more expansion to the east.

Kiku Empire:

The Kiku Empire was a human dominion that appeared after the defeat of the Lords of Maere and that extended to the west of Everdream. According to legend, was only matched by The Forgotten Empire in extension. It was vastly different in their habits to those of the rest of Everdream and it was rumored that they were guided in secret by an Ancient.

The relentless assault of the orci and their goblin allies during generations finally brought the Empire to its knees and was destroyed. Survivors fleed to the east and most of them settled in Aettryneland or Greyfang lands, working usually as mercenaries.

The Forgotten Empire:

Human dominion that appeared after the defeat of the Lords of Maere and that extended to the east of Everdream. It extended over a great extension of land, anexionating their neighbours by peaceful or violent methods.

The Forgotten Empire had public aspirations of total domination over all of Everdream and their aspirations were backed up by a powerful army like never seen before. Using what they called "Crystal Technology", their weavers were able to craft incredible combat armours for their troops, powerful ranged weapons, mighty combat golems or even the fabled flying fortresses.

The kind of power used by The Forgotten Empire defied one of the warnings by the Primordial Elves about awakening The Dreamer but they didn't care as they didn't believe in her existance. One day though, The Forgotten Empire simply ceased to exist, all its territory covered by endless deserts, deadly monsters never seen before, a few ruins and no survivors to tell the tale of The Forgotten Empire's fall.

Attor:

Dark weaving employed by the weavers of Aettryneland.

Attor is based on Maere's energy and twistes everything it touches into nightmares.

Nightmare:

Broad term used for many things. It's more commonly used to refer to the abominations created by Attor or beings come from Maere, like orci.

Nightmares are regarded as threats to The Dream's continuity.

Forgotten:

Used to refer to someone or something that does not exist anymore.

Unforgotten:

Commonly used to refer to those that had ceased to exist but that are back due to Attor weavings, coming back twisted by the dark energies of Maere.

The Blink:

The event in which the Sun shone during a few instants with great intensity, then went totally dark for a mere instant and when the light covered Evedream again, the Sun had gone red and the temperatures in Everdream dropped considerably, covering everything in ice and snow in a very short period of time.

Dying Sun:

For some now forgotten reasons, The Dreamer was somehow considered associated to the Sun. The celestial body becoming weaker and colder is considered a sign of the final days of The Dream and the awakening of The Dreamer.

The elves of Couer de Glace don't consider the Dying Sun a sign of the awakening of The Dreamer but a sign of the end of The Dream and the beginning of a new one.

Pandora's Box:

No one really knows what it is or what it refers too. No one. The words "Pandora's box is opened" are attributed to a dying adventurer rescued from the deserts of The Forgotten Empire. Considering all the adventurers from Reino Arcano that raided the deserts in search of lost artifacts from The Forgotten Empire, it was supposed to refer to some kind of artifact or ruin that he had found during his travels.

Shortly after the adventurer was rescued The Blink happenned and the adventurer's words suddenly went from a simple curiosity to some kind of dark prophecy that was quickly spread by doomsayers. The adventurer, who died shortly after pronouncing those fatidical words, became some short of messenger of The Dreamer warning them of the incoming end.