Dragonlance Mod: Outline Proposal and Discussion (Part 1)

Well, both versions have the player being able to control the Companions as heroes. One version has them as Heroes with the God/Goddess as the "Sovereign", the other version there are many "Sovereigns" and the Companions may be split among them. In the books, for a time Tanis is with Kitiara and during that time in the game he would be (reluctantly) fighting With the Dragonarmies and not against them.

In the God/Goddess version there are only two factions. One for good and one for evil. That's what the whole war is about when you boil it down and there are two ultimate powers in the land.

The other version will have many factions, but, all those factions will either be on the Good side or the Evil side. The factions will follow the same allegiances they have in the books.

While it is true that the world of Krynn has a very wide and diverse pantheon of Gods and Goddesses, and some of them are indeed "Neutral", they won't be represented in game. If I'm sticking to the story of the books (while of course giving the player freedom to change it within reason) none of the Neutral powers were strong enough to take down one of the two major powers. Notice there are actually 3 Orders of Magi but I only make 2 of them playable factions. The 3rd Order is the Order of the Red Robes. Raistlin himself starts out as a Red Robe but later dons the Black Robes in his pursuit of power.

As we all know Dragonlance is owned by Wizards of the Coast and follows the standard D&D classes. I'll most likely emulate those (at least for the main characters and their abilities) but when it comes to normal units I'll be sticking with the game standards minus some changing of Hitpoints, Mana, etc etc to make them play the way I want for the Mod. Case in point, Dragons. In Elemental, Dragons are Rare and Powerful creatures. In Dragonlance....well the place is just lousy with them. You can't turn around without almost getting eaten. The player will be waging war with Armies of Dragons, not just one or two. For the Mod they'll have to be tweaked and most likely toned down to be a little more balanced. Not saying they won't be incredibly hard to kill, they will. Then again if you have the right weapons, like a Dragon Orb, and maybe a few Dragons of your own, you'll fare pretty well.

At the beginning of the War the forces of Good don't have any Dragons of their own. Until you find a way to fight them, or find some good Dragons, if you go against the Dragonarmies chances are you're going to get your ass handed to you.....bad. Then again if you're playing as the forces of Takhisis you have a tactical advantage in the early game. You'll just have to hunt down the appropriate people before they can find the right "tools" to defeat you and You win. (That won't be as easy as it sounds though, there must be balance)

So just to clarify, which version of it did you like/want?

Note to the Devs: If any of you have any suggestions or can see a way here that you'd like to see tried, please let me know. Being the ones making the base game, there me be times that you (as players, not employees) might want to see something work different then the way it will work in Vanilla Elemental. Maybe you had a great idea but Frogboy or Boogie overrided you. Maybe you ARE Frogboy or Boogie and Everyone Else overrided you!!! Either way, I would Greatly Appreciate any feedback you may have or thoughts you may have on the ideas I want to incorporate into my Mod.

That - Is - Awesome!!! Might I suggest though to add the forum sections for modding maybe around the step before the actual Modding Beta? I imagine I'll have enough materials (base game files) to start working on the Mod before we actually get to the Mod Beta. I also think I'll probably be working on this longer then the Modding Beta will actually last (guessing it could take 3 or 4 weeks).

As a Dragonlance Fan if there's anything in particular (certain scene from the books) you'd like to see in a Dragonlance Game I'd love to hear your thoughts.

Dragonlance mod? Neato!

I hope this isn't a double-post. The forum keeps crashing as I try to post..

Have you checked out Dragons of Glory? It's a boardgame on the War of the Lance, originally published as D&D module DL 11. There should be some information on BoardGameGeek, unfortunately the site is currently in maintenance.

I would think that the most interesting things in Dragons of Glory would be the factions and the map. The factions have diplomatic modifiers included which tell how inclined they are towards WhiteStone and the Highlords. The knights for example, can never join the Highlords, while Nordmaar could join either side as easily.

If we had actual countries as factions - the major ones at least - the games could wary in who joins which side. And we could have quests for the heroes which would give their side diplomatic advantages towards the other factions. Hmm... thinking about it more makes me think that there truly are only two major factions and the rest of the countries are smaller in nature, joining one side or the other... maybe just two victory conditions and factions would have to choose which one to support by joining an alliance. Or something.


Additionally, a lot of good quest ideas can be found in the expansion to the game, called Paths of the Lance. It had action cards which simulated the effect of the adventures the heroes were going through while the war was raging. Here are some examples:

"Lorac's Nightmare: In a desperate attempt to save his homeland, the elf king Lorac is enslaved by a dragon orb, turning the forest of Silvanesti against its inhabitants."

"Lord Soth’s Legion: The death knight is called out of Dargaard Keep by his master, Highlord Kitiara."

"Hammer of Kharas Found: Lost in ages past, the Hammerof Kharas is a symbol ofdwarven unity."

That is Excellent information, Vallu751. I heard of the boardgame but unfortunately never played it. I looked for it for years but never could find one to purchase and then ended up forgetting all about it. Until you just reminded me about it that is . Well done.

I'm not expert in Dragonlance lore/story/characters/... Just read the original trilogy, the one about Takishis Knight's and another one about the twins going nuts.
 
Companions as Sovereigns or as Champions... Uff. Which is your definition of Sovereign? It'd seem more logical to have them as Champions?

That of heavily scripted to follow the storyline... Europa Universalis 2? I'd go with the broader scale. And I like the idea of having my own faction with the proper companions as Champions that can lead armies, do quests...
 
About factions, multiple factions sounds better than just Fiz... Paladine versus Takishis. Both ways have their appeal but from a Sovereign choice point of view, multiple factions rule imho.

I would prefer for the two gods to be "untouchable NPCs" ... not necessarily part of the game, but theoretically involved in random events and questing.

I think that the Sovereigns should be (multiple) mortal rulers, while the Companions are exceedingly powerful Champions.

I think that is a good idea.  That leaves the Companions/Champions able to quest for you. 

One other thing.  No mention of Red Robes in your lists.

Even if I use the Gods as the only two Sovereigns, the Companions will still be free to go on quests as heroes/champions/generals. Perhaps I should just throw out the term "Sovereign" when referring to the mod as those mechanics won't play the same.

I could also very well make the Gods more "stationary". As we know Paladine is Fizban who as Fizban is rather incompetent. Takhisis can't fully enter the mortal plane of existence and the temple is located in Neraka. Outside of Neraka her Highlords would have to do everything for her.

It's an interesting idea. I'll give it some thought and see what I come up with. When I decide on a few Core Mechanics that I'm happy with I'm going to post a Poll here on the forums and let people chose which Core Mechanic they like the best. That will be the one I go with.

The Red Robes will be there but not as their own "faction". I don't plan on having any "neutral" characters or factions. Ultimately the war comes down to the powers of "Good" and "Evil" and that's the main overall theme I'll be following.

Saying that how-ever, I do plan on having a few factions that could be swung to go either way. When they enter the war though, they will choose a side, either for good or evil. Such as the "Nordmaar" example that Vallu751 gives above. There won't be that many "swing factions" though as following the books most nations knew where they stood.

Glad to be of assistance

Here's the BoardGameGeek link: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/709/dragons-of-glory

The page contains the original map as a 1600x1200 image file: http://www.boardgamegeek.com/image/205250/dragons-of-glory

And in the file section, there are the full rules for Paths of the Lance as well as the action cards. The diplomatic information I mentioned can be found in the rules on page 3.

Thank you again, Vallu. Those will come in very handy indeed. I already have a very accurate map but the rules may give me some inspiration.

*Bump* For those new to the forums who haven't seen this and are interested in the DL Mod.

i love dragonlance(i own and have read many of the books), so i would love to see it as a mod.

I like that swing faction idea.   Ever play the old game, "War of the Lance" ?  Reminds me of that kind of where the forces of good would want to ally with as many as they can (strength in numbers, disadvantaged at the start ).  Forces of evil would want to crush or kill off any who will not join them.  Increase their lead or make sure the good guys aren't getting stronger. 

Exactly. That's the very same concept we'll be going for here. It will add a lot of replay to the mod as well.

I will be watching this mod with baited breath, we have not ever had a good modern Dragon lance game or mod as far as I can tell.

Personally I think, to actually follow the storyline closely you will actually need to have the "companions" going out and doing quests for the faction, not being in command of any armies or such with the exception of laurana. I.e the quest for the Dragonlances, the hammer of hras (sp?) or the dragon orb.

I am not sure I like the idea of actually playing as Takhisis or Paladine but it's an interesting concept. Very interested ot see what you come up with.

Also the war of the twins need's to be done as well! =P

Sounds badass.

Having the paladine and takhisis as the opposing faction leaders sounds EASIER to handle.

Regardless, my main interest would be in actually playing the party from Solace and going after the blue staff etc. all the way to Raistlin betraying takhisis.  Any details beyond that sound like they're above my pay grade.

Not sure if that's exactly your intention though.

*shrug*

Would try regardless of outcome, though.

Looks very interesting I like the concept of having several good and evil factions more than just Paladine vs. Takhisis I think. Never played War of the Lance, but the idea behind it sounds very cool.

Has this Mod been started yet ????

Thanks

FlynnO

Yes

I agree that having many factions would make the game more interesting than just having two sides and I favor the "war" version more than the "rpg" version.  Handling the two gods might be hard to pull off though with multiple sides and I can't say I have any good ideas on how that could be handled.  It would be cool if they could be side players that had their own motivations and would help out here and there.

On a side note I used to own some of the Dragon Lance modules and may have DL 11.  I had one that had armies in it at any rate but can't remember the number.  If I remember it was smaller scale than the whole war so it might just be one of the other DL modules though.  Unfortunately over the years I lost some of my stuff so I may not have it anymore.  If I do have it I will see if I can scan it or something if you still can't find a copy and would like to look at it.

That would be awesome my friend, I'd really appreciate that

Maybe the two Gods can be stationary NPCs, (separate and opposing factions, non-recruitable) ... and you can earn their favor in order to get more enchantments/buffs.

(say, only X number of champions can have the "favor" of either of the gods -> maybe those with Takhisis's favor become/are Highlords??)

so like ... maybe those with evil god favor can found a new faction (allied to other factions with "evil god favor"), and gain extra powers/high lord ....

while those with good god favor become beefed up Champions (more like, a LOT more luck/evasion/critical and slightly boost other stats) with really high diplomacy bonuses with Kings not allied with evil.

And maybe, if you play as Good, you play as one "with good god favor" and try to get kings to "loan" you armies ???

and maybe, just maybe, if you play as Good (with a good champion) you might be gifted a city from a Kingdom (to start your very own faction) as vassal to that King.

Turns out I do still have it so I can scan it, copy it or whatever works best for you short of giving it to you.  The maps are pretty huge so they might be a bit of a problem but I'll see what I can do.