Yes, I've seen the reports. His holiness Pope Benedict goes on and explains that the good wheat is not killed by evil weeds.

Sin within Church does not extinguish hope, Pope tells German faithful //

May 17, 2010

Christians "should be glad amidst all the tribulations," Pope Benedict XVI said in a message to a German ecumenical event.

Although "over recent months we have repeatedly had to absorb news that seeks to extract the joy from the Church," the Pope told the annual Kirchentag gathering, the hope that springs from faith cannot be extinguished. The Church "is a place of hope because in her the Lord continues to give Himself to us in the grace of the sacraments," the Pope wrote.

In his message to the German Church the Pope compared the sex-abuse scandal to the weeds that choke the wheat in the Gospel parable. "Weeds exist also in the bosom of the Church and among those whom the Lord has called to His special service," the Pope said. "But the light of God has not gone out, the good wheat has not been choked by the weeds of evil."

Actually proof by Scriptural assertion...Saint Matthew's Gospel to be exact. Christ built His Church upon Simon whose name He changed to Peter. The name change as well as Peter having been given Christ's keys of the kingdom of heaven signifies Christ's delegated authority. The Lord gave the keys to St. Peter and by St. Peter to the Church. The Church that was under the jurisdiction of St.Peter the first Bishop of Rome continues through today and will until the end of the world.

Christ's delegated authority to His Chruch is what the world hates.

kfc posts:

True...you are describing Catholicism and only Catholicism.

The sacerdotal and doctrinal unity that exists in the CC must be most pleasing to God who willed His Chruch be one in government and faith. On the other hand, the complete disunity in the Protestant world must bring sorrow to Christ our Lord even though members of the varying sects within it profess to believe in Him.  

The divisions and disunity within Protestantism is a sin against Our Lord who instituted "one fold" of "one mind". St.John 10: 16; 2Cor. 13:11 which He commanded to be heard. St.Matt. 18:17.

KFC posts:

Exactly. Colossae was a city in the valley of the Lycus River in a region in the west part of Anatolia (modern Turkey). The Church at Colossae was part of the universal Catholic Church. In Colossae false teachings of a Judaizing tendency as well as pre-Gnosticism were being spread. And St.Paul is writing to the Church there warning the Collossians these false doctrines are a danger to their faith which they must hold on because it is the only true one.

KFC posts:

Where do you get that? Oh ya, your private interpretation of Scripture.  

Not true.  It doesn't say the 7 churhes all fell into paganism. Rather, it teaches that all the churches were in some way faltering in their mission.

I see your hatred for Christ's Church colors your private interpretation of Scripture.

First, a minor point.....it's Apoc. 2:13-15, not 3.

This is the church located in Pergamum. Unlike the other 6 cities, Pergamum is the location where Satan has long set up his camp. Around 29 BC, Pergamum was the center of emperor worship and a place of wicked forces of evil. Satan's here becasue he doesn't want the Christian faith to be spread in this world of godless people.

Here, Jesus is weilding a sharp two-edged sword in front of the bishop of Pergamaum as a threat of judgment becasue he has allowed some members to teach false things in the Chruch which is under his care. The leaders are told to repent and purge the sin from the Church. If they do they will receive the "hidden manna" and "white stone" with a name only they will know.  

This passage tells us the Church at Pergamum is commended by the Lord "for they stand firm in the faith even in the midst of their members who are  killed one being "Antipas". From the writings of the Church Fathers, we know that Antipas was one of the bishops of the Church in the reign of Domitian who encased him in a metal bull and set it on fire.

you know Lula.  I don't disagree here really even when you mention the universal Catholic Church because that's right.  Where we differ is the fact that you believe the modern RCC (after 4th century) and the early church are one and the same. 

I'm telling you they are not.  Things changed when Rome stopped persecuting the early church and jumped on board with them allowing them to worship freely.  That's where Politics and Religion first mixed in together and when the powerful RCC was first begun. 

St.Matthew 16:13-

13 And Jesus came into the quarters of Caesarea Philippi: and he asked his disciples, saying: Whom do men say that the Son of man is? 14 But they said: Some John the Baptist, and other some Elias, and others Jeremias, or one of the prophets. 15 Jesus saith to them: But whom do you say that I am?

16 Simon Peter answered and said: Thou art Christ, the Son of the living God. 17 And Jesus answering, said to him: Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-Jona: because flesh and blood hath not revealed it to thee, but my Father who is in heaven. 18 And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 19 And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose upon earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven. 20 Then he commanded his disciples, that they should tell no one that he was Jesus the Christ.

 "Thou art Peter"... As St. Peter, by divine revelation, here made a solemn profession of his faith of the divinity of Christ; so in recompense of this faith and profession, our Lord here declares to him the dignity to which he is pleased to raise him: viz., that he to whom he had already given the name of Peter, signifying a rock, St. John 1. 42, should be a rock indeed, of invincible strength, for the support of the building of the church; in which building he should be, next to Christ himself, the chief foundation stone, in quality of chief pastor, ruler, and governor; and should have accordingly all fulness of ecclesiastical power, signified by the keys of the kingdom of heaven. 

"Upon this rock"... The words of Christ to Peter, spoken in the language of the Jews which our Lord made use of, were the same as if he had said in English, Thou art a Rock, and upon this rock I will build my church. So that, by the plain course of the words, Peter is here declared to be the rock, upon which the church was to be built: Christ himself being both the principal foundation and founder of the same. Where also note, that Christ, by building his house, that is, his church, upon a rock, has thereby secured it against all storms and floods, like the wise builder, St. Matt. 7: 24-25.

"The gates of hell"... That is, the powers of darkness, and whatever Satan can do, either by himself, or his agents. For as the church is here likened to a house, or fortress, built on a rock; so the adverse powers are likened to a contrary house or fortress, the gates of which, that is, the whole strength, and all the efforts it can make, will never be able to prevail over the city or church of Christ. By this promise we are fully assured, that neither idolatry, heresy, nor any pernicious error whatsoever shall at any time prevail over the church of Christ.

Another passage where Christ delegates His authority is St.Matt. 28: 16-20.

16 And the eleven disciples went into Galilee, unto the mountain where Jesus had appointed them. 17 And seeing him they adored: but some doubted. 18 And Jesus coming, spoke to them, saying: All power is given to me in heaven and in earth. 19 Going therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world.

18 "All power"... See here the warrant and commission of the apostles and their successors, the bishops and pastors of Christ's Church. He received from his Father all power in heaven and in earth: and in virtue of this power, He sends them (even as His Father sent Him, St. John 20. 21) to teach and disciple, not one, but all nations; and instruct them in all truths: and that He may assist them effectually in the execution of this commission, He promises to be with them, not for three or four hundred years only, but all days, even to the consummation of the world. How then could the Catholic Church ever go astray; having always with her pastors, as is here promised, Christ Himself, who is the Way, the Truth, and the Life. St. John 14.

KFC posts:

KFC.

For this to be true Christ would have to be divided and He is not. St.Paul infallibly teaches there is only one Body of Christ and St.Paul was baptized into that body which is the CC, the pillar and ground of truth. 1Tim 3:15.  You have said you were baptized into the CC, but since have made the free decision to be not part of it...in other words, you are clearly without the CC.

St.Paul asks, "What have I to do to judge them that are without? Do not judge them that are within. For them that are without, God will judge. 1Cor. 5:12-13.  We've seen that the Church from the time of the First Pentecost when she was sent into active operation is one visible Chruch, whose members were within that Church, sinners, saints and all. Those who are not in the Chruch are "without".

Even if all the Protestants in the world molded into one church, it still could not claim to be Christ's Chruch for there is only one Chruch that functions with the authority of Christ ...that has the legitimate sacerdotal (sacrificng priesthood according to the order of Melchisedech) and the Real Presence of Christ in the sanctuary of her tabernacles.  

The Catholic Chruch is the Mystical Body of Christ. St.Paul says, "CHrist is the head of the body, the Chruch." Col. 1:18. That's why the CC is able to "glorify Christ with one mind and one mouth." Rom. 15:6. That is why the gates of Hell were never able to prevail against the Chruch and that's why the Catholic Church has been, is and will continue to be misrepresented and maligned as was her Founder, Jesus Christ.

Christ said, "If the world hates you, know that it hated me before you. If you had been of the world, the wolrd would love its own,; but becasue you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hates you." St.John 15:  18-19.

The Protestant forefathers ditched the Church and Church authority and insisted on the right to think for themselves and build up their own systems accordingly. As a result, private interpretation of Scripture is praised as a principal benefit of the Protestant Reformation. The Protestant principle, Do not be told by the CC what to think on religion, but be free to think for yourself is proving fatal to Protestantism...for rationalism is setting in. Protestants have simply asserted their freedom to think Protestantism itself and indeed all religion useless.  

If, as you claim, Scripture interprets itself,  then everyone who reads it would come to the same interpretation and meaning. Every Protestant would read Apoc. 20:1-6 and come up with the same silly ideas on that as you. But they don't. That clearly hasn't happened within Protestantism as there is doctrinal dissension everywhere. Every year finds Protestantism splitting up into still further sects and in the end it will fall, as must every house divided against itself.

The Holy Bible needs an interpreter. We see that in the case of the Ethiopian who admitted he did not understand what he was reading and needed St. Philip, a deacon in the Church, to interprete the meaning of the passage from Isaias. Acts 8:26-40.  St.Philip is known as the Evangelist was commissioned by the Apostles Acts 6:6 and who preached the Gospel with authority. Acts 8:4-8. The point here is that the statement of the Ethiopian verifies 2 facts.... that the Bible is not sufficient in itself as a teacher of Christian doctrine, and that it does not interpret itself.  

The Pharisees read Scripture yet, managed to use, or misuse quotations as an argument against Christ just as many people today quote  Scripture thinking they make an argument against Christ's Church, the CC.

 No, no, no...private interpretation is not OK. The CC has Christ's authority to interpret the Scriptures. We see this with St.Philip and the Ethiopian. You reject the infallibility of the CC, but I don't have that same problem. I am subject to the Chruch which is infallible when teaching in matters of faith and morals, and which gives me absolute certainity of the truth.

When you read Scripture, you can't claim certainity yourself, nor have you any certain guide.    

Besides, the Chruch had the truth in all its fullness for years before the NT was written. The Apostles were instructed by Our LOrd. It was they and their own disciples who wrote what later became the NT to clarifiy, emphasize, and explain to the clergy the doctrines they had received from their living teachers. That's why no Catholic doctrine conflicts with any other, and no teaching of the Chruch is contradicted by any Bible text rightly understood.     

lula posts

leauki posts 357

KFC,

You mention worshipping in unity....That's why I said you are dsecribing only Catholicism for I know the CC worships in unity becasue of the Sacrifice of the Holy Mass....but how do "all the Christians" in the different Protestant sects worship in unity?

.............................

And speaking of the Mystical Body of Christ...

Leauki,

in answer to your question and comment....YES.

The Church, the Mystical Body of Christ is communion with Christ.

From the beginning, Jesus associated His disciples with His own life, revealed the mystery of the kingdom to them, and gave them a share in His mission, joy and sufferings. Jesus spoke of a still more intimate communion between Him and those who would follow Him. "Abide in Me, and I in you...I am the vine, you are the branches. And He proclaimed a mysterious and real communion between His own Body and ours: "He who eats My Flesh and drinks My Blood abides in Me and I in him." St.John 6:56.

When His visible presence was taken away, Jesus did not leave us orphans. He promised to remain with us until the end of the world. He sent His Spirit. As a result of receiving His Real Presence in the Eucharist as well as receiving His Spirit, communion with Him has become more intense. By communicating His SPirit, Christ mystically constitutes as His body those of us who are by baptism called together from every nation. That's where the "coming together" enters the Christian life.

So there is an intimate bond between Christ and His Church. Not only is she gathered around Him, she is united in HIm in His Body. Specifically, all of her members are united with each other as a result of their union with Christ as the Head of the Body.

Now, here's where the equality comes in.

The Mystical Body's unity does not do away with the diversity of its members and functions rather it produces and stimulates charity among the faithful. If one member suffers, all the members suffer. If one member is honored, all the members rejoice. Finally the unity of the Mystical Body triumphs over all human divisions. "For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ."

How does this happen? Go back and read the passage of Ephesians that I've been talking about with KFC....4:3 says we are to maintain the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.

Remember you said the Messias must bring peace and I said He already did for those who accept Him.

The peace which unites Catholics is the peace which Christ brings or rather, it is Christ Himself 2:14. By having the same "one faith" and the same "one Spirit", we find ourselves brought together in the Church old and young, rich and poor, adult and child, people of every condition, the strong, the weak, in wheelchairs, some blind, others need an oxygen tube to breathe, all equal...we become one and the same, more closely united than the parts of a single body for the unity of souls is more intimate and more perfect than that of any substance.

This equality, this unity is maintained in the bond of peace..which is Christ Himself.  

no.  You DON'T have a clue.  It has NOTHING to do with sects!!!!  It has NOTHING to do with denominations!!!!  I can be united with a Christian in an Ethiopian Church or a Bulgarian Church or a Messianic Jew in the middle of Israel.  It has NOTHING to do with where they worship but all to do with WHO they worship.  You seriously need to read John 4 about the Samaritan woman at the well.  That's why Christ said to this woman that it's NOT the place of worship that matters but the spirit of worship that does.

The Pharisees couldn't get it...all but Nicodemus that is.  He got it.  They kept listening to Christ talk and all they could dwell on was the physical.  They couldn't grasp what he was saying when he spoke of spiritual things.  That's what you're doing.  That's why you see blood and flesh as physical not spiritual.  That's why you look at physical baptism not spiritual baptism (Holy Spirit) etc.   

Notice how the Pharisees attacked their own when they attacked Nicodemus and the officers they sent to arrest Jesus:

"Then answered the Pharisees, Are you also deceived?  Have any of the rulers or the Pharisees believed on him?  But "this people"  (an insult and a sneer) who know not the law are cursed.  Nicodemus said to them, Does our law judge any man before it hears him and knows what he does?  They answered and said unto him, Are you also of Galilee?  Search and look for out of Galilee arises no prophet."  John 7:47-52.

There dispositions were exposed as they attacked and insulted not only the officers but also a fellow Pharisee who only appealed to their own Jewish law saying we need to at least be fair here.  They sneered at him making a comment not only that no Prophet comes out of Galilee (they were wrong) but they called the people "this people" insulting those that would even think of following Jesus who spoke like no one else.  They also held themselves up pridefully when they said "have any rulers or Pharisees beleived on him?   Basically saying the doctrine the great and learned did not recevive is always assumed to be wrong.

That's what you're doing.  You're looking down and sneering at anyone who dares not believe in the Holy RCC.  Who dares not to follow their organization?   Anyone who does not is cursed.  That's what your religion teaches.  It's not of Christ.  You get on the RCC's bandwagon or you're sunk.  They've got all the answers just like the Pharisees did.  NOT! 

here we go again...you keep harping on John 6 yet dance around 6:63.  Why did you ignore John 6:63 and my comments concerning this?  Is it too painful to look at Lula? 

exactly.  There will be no peace until the Prince of Peace comes back.  Until then we are to pray for the peace of Jerusalem.  When there is Peace there, there will be Peace everywhere! 

not individually nor corporately.  The RCC has NEVER been a picture of peace.  Lula refuses to see this.  They don't represent Christ AT ALL!  They think they do.  But instead they represent the Pharisees.  They are about doing works and looking good on the outside while the inside is rotten!  All sin covered on earth is open scandal in heaven and will be uncovered.  I think what we are seeing with the RCC today is proof of that.  For those RC who have eyes to see and ears to hear that is. 

yep. 

Were the same as if he had said it in English?  What? No!  “Peter” and “Rock” are one word in the dialect familiarly spoken by our L-RD- the Aramaic.  This exalted play upon the word can be fully seen only in languages which have one word for both. Even in the Greek it is imperfectly represented.  I think in French translations are a good example  Pierre - pierre.

Furthermore, Matthew was written specifically with a Jewish audience in mind hence why with all the genelogy at the beginning because a religious Jew at that time would read that and realize oh my this man was the Messiah/G-D.  Another thing is that some scholars think that Matthew might have been originally written in Hebrew but that is here nor there. επι ταυτη τη πετρα (This Greek here is from Matthew 16:18 which is accurately translated to Upon this very Rock) With what Jesus was saying here would cause most Jewish to think of: 'The stone that the builders rejected would become the head of the corner' (Psalm 118:22) and 'Behold, I place in Zion a Stone for a foundation, a tried Stone, a precious Cornerstone, a sure Foundation;' (Isaiah 28:16).  Peter was only one of the builders in this sacred edifice, Eph 2:20 (  being built up on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the cornerstone,) who himself tells us, (with the rest of the believers), was built on this living foundation stone: 1 Peter 2:4-5 ( to whom having drawn near, a living Stone, indeed having been rejected by men, but chosen by G-D, precious; you also as living stones are being built a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to G-D through Jesus Christ. ), therefore Jesus Christ did not say, on you, Peter, will I build my Church, but changes immediately the expression, and says, upon that very rock, επι ταυτη τη πετρα, to show that he neither addressed Peter, nor any other of the apostles. BUT was to referring to HIMSELF hence why he say MY.