Dungen Master - Better Results From Goodie Plots.  (Cost 10)

Faithless - Charm Spell Duration Reduced 50%. (Cost -10)

Pyromancer - Unlock Spell Inferno, Ignite an enemy unit in combat or All Units get +1 Fire Damage.  (Cost 10, Must have a 75% Fire Magic spec to unlock)

Can apply the above idea to all schools of Magic.

Well,  the point is about talent for the sovereign. The sovereign is a specific unit, located at one spot on the map. So it makes sense that the bonus/weakness is restricted to the spot (city, army, itself) where it is. I find strange that an unit on the map has an empire wide bonus. Empire wide bonus/weakness are better handled by your race bonus/weakness.

As the sovereign is your most powerful unit at the start of the game, it makes sense that the associated bonus has an important effect at the start of game with diminishing effects later, when you have developped cities and big armies.

@peace phoenix : but that bonus would be useless in the end game.

So why not something tied to the "magic" researched tree ? You get one more spell point for two level in the Magic tree ?

Simple bonuses vs Complex bonuses

Simple bonuses like +4 RP or +10% HP are easier to include and to balance. I'd expect most of the talents and weaknesses to be of this type just for that. They are fun and easy. If giving bonuses, proportianl bonuses are better.

Complex bonuses like a chain quest, variable game effects... They are more interesting and fun but they also require more time and are more difficult to balance. I don't expect to see too many of these for Gold. But I think that we should see more after relase. Or that's what I'm hoping for.

Sliders

Works nicely for simple bonuses talents and weaknesses. Sorely missed in many cases. I approve of this.

Feasible with complex bonuses but not sure if good for every case.

Hybrids

I used these in my example of talents weaknesses. The idea is that not all the talents are only good and that not all the weaknesses are only bad. Two edged swords.

An hybrid talent is a talent that offers more benefits that its cost in points reflects. That's due to the talent having one or more weaknesses included as counterbalance. Still, it's a talent and the number of weaknesses should be limited.

An hybrid weakness is a weakness that offers more detriments that its cost in points reflects. That's due to the weakness having one or more talents included as counterbalance. Still, it's a weakness and the number of talents should be limited.

Combining

I like the idea of unlocking extra "stuff" when selecting certain talents/weaknesses. That unlocking can be automatic (like Blood of the Titans plus Crystaline Synchrony can give you automatically Titan Spellcasting, that allows you to spend one Essence in spells that require crystal shards to double their power and double the difficulty to dispell them) or may need to pay for it as a new option that appears in the menu (like Blood of the Titans and Curse of the Thin Blood that could unlock for purchase Weaknening Blood, a special magical attack that lowers the stats of the enemy affected in exchange of some lose health... think Blood Mages or Assamites :P).

Unlocking during game

It doesn't sound bad. I'm not sure if it could work for all of them and how easy it would be. It'd be interesting though.

What would love to see are Feats unlocked by actions during the game. Little flat bonuses and/or penalties as consequence of actions in game. Mostly for bragging rights. Like Dragon Slayer, Pacificator, Cheeto...

Genetics

Mentioned here but I think that had been already mentioned by Stardock earlier. In any case, to have your lineage inherits traits from the parents is something really cool.

Nature link

Get a spell that has a chance of charming a wild animal to join your army. Spellcost and such must be balanced. I would love to add a spider or troll to my army just before attacking my soon to be forgotten neighbour.

Thats just a furry fetish.

I.e.

Anthropomorphic Projections: "Of course the animals talk back to me..." - Your sovereign has been on the internet too long and has developed an 'affinity' with certain furry animals. +2 to everything because they are cool.

Talking of such, Wintersong, why do you keep changing that avatar thing.

Nature power

Get a spell that will set a lair of spiders/trolls/animals where you would like. A nice skill to have to disrupt your enemies

Mine have their strength and weaknesses

Delicate Flower - You have an eye for construction and the light magic, but agriculture and black magic are so .... dirty.

Paranoid -  You are quick to quell down conspiracies.... and innocent subjects as well. You have better security but less prosperity.

Lone Wolf - You are incredibly strong on your own, but you get massive penalties when leading an army.

Pacifist - You believe everyone has a right to live and you gain diplomatic bonuses, it's a shame not everyone agrees with you.... really.

Lycan - You have a terrible secret, and people won't like you when you are angry.....

Achilles - You are (almost) indestructible! But your soldiers are not, in fact they are puny.

How are those for balance?

An expansion to post number 100

Planewalker - You can talk and deal with creatures from different realities.... everybody else thinks you are talking to yourself.

Stupid question but why need the SOVEREIGN bonus to be useful in the end game if they are useful at the beginning? Each bonus must have a drawback for one type or another. An easier  drawback is the cost. Another is the timing of the usefulness of the bonus. Another is the way to play the sovereign to get the maximum benefit of the bonus.

As there are 4 types of victory (conquest, diplomacy, master quest, spell of making) and different size of map, we don't know yet what kind of bonus works best in a given environnement. Surely a bonus for all units in the army lead by the sovereign will have surely more impact on a epic game with 1000 men in that army when wanting a conquest victory than for a diplomatic victory on a small map.

But the points you put into that trait could have been used in character points. And those are usefull even in the end game.

I still think Sovs of a certain class should give bonuses to Units in an army they are leading.

For instance, if a FIGHTER Sovereign is leading a stack of infantry, they will all get +1 defense and +1 HP.

If an ARCHER/Ranger Sovereign is leading a stack, then all ranged units get +1 attack and +15% range.

If a RANGER Sovereign is leading a stack, there is half maintanence (foraging) and the army moves at least 15% faster (tracking)

If a KNIGHT is leading a stack, all cavalry units get considerable benefits (+1 attack, +1 defense, +1 HP, +1 attack speed), as well as prestige bonuses for Royal Champions (quests).

If a BEZERKER "" "" +1 attack and +15% damage dealt

If a SAVAGE "" "" +1 attack and +1 HP

in addition, previous Economic traits from earlier? Only for Cities governed directly by the Sovereign, not global. AKA, if the SOV is designated "RULER" over A, B, and C ... then they automatically get his economic bonuses/penalties. IF he is stationed within the city, the effects are doubled.

You know ... those beginning traits that have 4 of something, ect. I think later techs should increase this bonus ... so that if you bought the Meditative Trait, and you research Pour into the Ether, or Meditation Training, ect, then that spell bonus increases from 4 to 8. Strength of WIll (or Ethereal Mastery) would increase it to 16.

Additionally, an ENtrepreneur that researches Currency or Taxation would have 4 gold upgraded to 8 gold. And upon Guilds that would increase to 16 gold.

Give us "Infertile (no offspring at all)"! With a huge point boost of course.

Agree totally. What is the Sovereign doing that he can generate empire wide effects while camping out in the middle of nowhere, simply by being alive? I mean, why would he give troops a combat bonus at a fight where he's not there or not using spells from afar to assist?

The research one is the same. Generating 4 research a turn makes sense, since it's his own work. Boosting the research of the settlement he's in makes sense, becuase he could join the researchers and use their work to boost his own. But while he's exploring ruins, why is he able to boost research of the place two towns over?

Racial bonuses are the ones that should be empire wide. That also provides a clear distinction. You pick the traits for this one character, and then you pick the ones for your empire as a whole.

(And as for 4 research points being useless late game... it's going to get you to the late game research faster then the guy who doesn't have it, and early game is ALWAYS important in a TBS. Sure it will eventually fare badly against +10% empire wide, but the sovereign shouldn't have empire wide effects anyway. Comparing a personal +4 to say 20% in one town is a much more interesting decision because it depends on how long the game goes and how often you can keep the Sovereign in that town.)

I'm just wondering how we could work on turning these passive bonus suggestions into active abilities...

Going back to GalCiv2 for a moment, take your auto-exploring survey ship(s)... rather than passively giving you bonuses every other turn, perhaps they could collect the junk they find and you'd gain the bonuses when they landed on a planet? It would mean you choose where and when to cash in the bonus (allows for some planet specific and empire wide bonuses)
The same concept could be applied to adventuring and item discovery in elemental. Also, it would be interesting if adventuring traits allowed you to activate things in different ways. So with a hero collecting loot, they have to return to a city to drop it off... their traits could determine the result. (keep the cool items, sell them all, stash them in the city, give them to other heros...etc.)

With some of the production bonuses you could activate them and mark yourself as the foreman of a mine (+%) or whatever. Perhaps some of them should require you to be within either the city of your culture.

I suppose the question is how noticable are they? You only notice something if you see a change, some before and after. If you have a passive bonus from the start that is permenant, you've adjusted the difficulty setting but nothing else. Some things are easier, some things harder... but you don't really notice. If you have a reason to look at that attribute you would notice those passive bonuses... but you don't often have a reason.
In sins, the envoy passive bonuses you notice because you're looking for when they hit the level where you can start pacts. (although they're still not perfect, autocasting abilities become passive abilities and you forget about them... and end up bombing a world that your envoys are actively but automatically (and therefore passively - without user action) boosting the population growth/or health... as an annoying example)

One option would be for some traits to unlock event options, with an indicator to show which trait you're using. So:

necromancer trait could unlock some evil options to certain events. A plague would now have the normal save the people option as well as a 'study the plague' or 'raise plague zombies'.

Negotiator could have an option in trades to "use negotiating skills" to have a small boost to the value of your goods, Or "rip-off" gives you an item in the trade window of high value, but if you sell it you lower relations. (sell a penny as "The magic meeting charm" with a small chance of actually being the item you said it was if the other person is lucky)

Diplomatic would allow you to reach compromises more easily... in cases where a lot of your items have 0 value to the other faction and your shard is 1. They want your shards, nothing else is worth anything. They demand 1 shard. You "diplomatically negotiate" and they will now accept food and wood. (reduces the value of your shard, increasing the relative value of other items... as such is hard to use offensively. I.e. you can only target the item they are requesting to make them lose interest in it if it's valuble to you)

Wise could allow you to activate it to remove the penalty for an event... which would allow you to activate it and benefit from any gobal events. It's cost would have to scale with the likelyhood of mega-events... if you may not get a single huge event it should be cheap, if you're highly likely to get at least one event before the game is over then it should be expensive.

Gambler - activate to increase the RNG on events or items. So, activate it before attacking a dragon and be more likely to get amazing artifacts, or just a small pile of gold. Deactivate it and any "gambler" options in events is lost.

Not sure what's best to make you notice or think about traits... anything that encourages user actions... it doesn't mean losing the passive bonuses, just having each race have at least one or two active ones. Say, diplomatic and having some quest, they'd have a different start (looking for quest stuff) and would be harder to scam.
If "archery background" allowed you to build a free archery range (once or every 20 turns) and had a small bonus to archers under your command it would be a little more active and quite probably change your entire army to use more archers. It'd have an effect in the early game, but taper off as you could quite easily build lots of barracks in the late game. (unlike a flat reduction in archer cost, global bonus or a late-game effect like increasing the level cap of archers or allowing the research of adamantium arrows, which would all have different use curves.)
"archery background" or whatever could have lots of different potential active effects. In game battle commands like volley, the ability to upgrade/downgrade troops to archers (keeping their armour)... that could be quite interesting... if you lose your archers but have your knights left... give them bows, spend a turn training them and you have platemail archers with swords for close range. (lose the horses).

"Archer" as a trait may also change the loot you find... since you'd notice the dull brown, old and dusty bow that is actually a dull-wood bow of invisibility. Maybe the equivalent of having a second identify check when you find bows. Allows you to identify magical items that you wouldn't have noticed. Either that or simply increases the % chance to find bows. But I'd rather the items were there to begin with you just didn't notice.

Archer could allow you to station your sov in a city and research archery techs, so while your sov is in a city research points from that city are doubled, only towards archery or missile related techs.

I feel like I should chime in to add my support for traits combining in possibly unexpected ways.

What I would do is have the stated trait be the dominant trait gained. I would have 1-3 recessive traits attached to them that are hidden. When you pick two traits that have the same recessive trait it becomes a dominant trait.

You could even have it use weighted random choices for the recessive traits.

Additionally I think it would be preferable to have these recessive traits combine into things that you cannot select manually.

Also with these dominant/recessive traits you could add that into the genetics of marrying and fathering children. Your offspring might have a chance at getting traits even you or the mother do not have.

FKN

William

Tropico 3 does a good job with this system... take a look at that.

I think the idea that two traits are combined into a third “more extreme” one is interesting but there are two drawbacks which I didn’t see mentioned:

First, you risk losing the overview. I still think you as a player should have the option to make an informed choice of the traits and their effects on your sovereign. This will also be important when you make custom sovereigns to be your opponents in sandbox mode. What would not be very good is if you end up clicking around forever between various traits and see the end effect change around without really knowing what’s going on. Or being unable to keep efficient track of it since there are so many combinations and no clear overview. Could be remedied by a “trait tree”??

Secondly you might lose the flexibility when giving basic traits to your custom sovereign: that is, if all traits are locked up in combinations that might not be the only possible outcome of these traits. If all basic traits combine into “extreme ones” it might not fit with the custom sovereign you have in mind. For example, if “greedy” and “lustful” would be combined into “jealous stalker” this could be appropriate in some cases but would be completely wrong when you just want to make a greedy wine merchant enjoying life ... (maybe not best example but you get the point) This could be annoying when you want to remake characters from books, films etc or just make up a particular one you are imagining.

But if the system would be able to handle this it could work well I guess.

It was a joke. A refrence to my ealier point that all of these have been used before and Id like to see them 'spiced up' a bit. I know the diffrence between the spirit guide, natures 'touch' and hot furrys.

You can pick one or more of the following reasons*:

• Just because
• I'm cool
• One different for each of the personalities
• There is no avatar
• I like pretty pics
• People (barely) changes their avatars and that's boring
• Life is change
• Forces people to check my username
• Google pays me $1 for each change. They determine which avatar I must use and when to change it.
• A wizard did it.
• Random explanatory reason

*They might or might not be accurate/real.

I see.....

How to turn traits from passive to active? Some examples of categories and individual traits in active form below.

It should also be said that an active ability can very well be combined with a passive modifer. (e.g. Natural leader below could affect recruitment when you use your ability but also give you a passive modifier for your troops in combat). You would then still notice the trait each time you use it actively, at the same time as you are reminded that you also have a permanent modifier.  

- Special attacks are active (berskerer rage, gorgon gaze ..)

- Special or just additional spells are active (goes both for combat and strategic cloth map level)

- Unique abilities with a specific effect in the game can be considered "active" even if they are out of your direct control since they make something new happen that you have to notice: e.g. being transformed into a werewolf or other creature at fullmoon, a weakness that makes you fall unconscious under certain circumstances, ...

Now some normally passive traits in active form (just suggested effects that certainly need to be further considered for balance and best effects, but good to provide a starting point and some examples):

- Scholarly: when researching a new spell you can choose to learn it immediately (or speed up the research), usable a few times.

- Tracker: when you use your ability the nearest animals/creatures are revealed on the map.

- Intimidating: you get the ability to frighten an enemy off in combat. You get ability on diplomacy screen to force another civ to give you a tribute in gold.

- Diplomatic: you can use your ability to clinch a deal that would otherwise not be accepted. You can use ability to end an ongoing conflict (when AI is close to do so anyway)

- Natural leader: when recruiting you can use your ability to win over unit automatically (usable a few times).

- Miner: use your ability on a mine and it gets a big production bonus.

- Necromancer: use your ability to double the effect of a death magic spell. Use ability to learn a death magic spell at double speed. (similar treatment can give an active trait for each type of magic ...)

- Meditative: use ability to spend one turn in meditation and receive a new spell (random within your schools)

etc.  

That's all I can come up with for the moment, but there are certainly many better ideas out there

Many of these are god bonuses but what kind of story do they tell?

I don't think I asw it mentioned, but what about something like....

Military Pageantry: Your armies are constantly taking part in dazzling parades and state ceremonies, wearing only the finest livery. (Increased moral at the cost of increased unit upkeep.)

On the flip side you could have the opposite, calling it something like Frugal or perhaps austere....