Well the term pirate can be taken differently. We are use to pirates being a half assed group who takes what they can get. Usually not very organized.

There was a time though where pirates had some of the biggest ships. More guns. Time of the privateers. Goverment funded pirates. They had some of the largest ships in the New World.

SINS pirates are like the Privateers of old. Goverment funded group who could afford to big ships, with more guns. *Shrugs* Besides its never really told who the pirates are in the SINS universe. Most assume their a ragtag group of outlaws. It could be they are empires and nations who refused to join the Trade Order. And now follow their own set of rules and laws. And of course these 'outlaws' of the Trade Order are gonna be branded pirates. Its propaganda at its best.

As the saying goes one man freedom fighter is another mans terrorist. Or in this case one nations privateers are anothers nations pirates.

I just spend 10k paying the pirates to kick somebodies ass for me, a while before i did the same and as soon as its possible im gonna pay 20k to kick somebody else,

if they don't buy upgrades from all my money then they are simply stupid, their ships should be fairly cheap because i would guess they get alot of resources from the destroyed ships so more money remains for upgrades,

thus, if they are to strong.. stop paying them so darn much

maybe that would be a good idea for the pirates, let the amount of missions they receive decide how fast they become stronger, if nobody pays them then they will become very weak in the end-game, if ppl keep on spending their credits on pirates then they become incredible over-powered in the end-game,

"creating monsters, one bounty at a time"

Thanks Ryat.  The 'pirate' class of armour just seems eliminate the entire counter system, for no apparent reason...?  Carriers have become ineffective against pirates?!  Have the pirates got a common attack as well?  LRF do the most base damage per ship, so I suppose you can just get the pirates to attack your capitals, if you have no heavies.  So the pirates begin to encourage LRF spam as well, the fail continues...  All that was required was the pirates as they were, with a few limited and appropriate upgrades and better AI, and the developers have made a mess of it with some crude stat boosts and an even cruder new armour type.

As history, the idea that the New World privateers were a government funded group with big ships and the most guns is extremely inaccurate.  Notoriously, the Spanish galleons were the large well-armed ships- the privateers used faster ships, and fought boarding actions when they had to fight, to capture treasure rather than sink it.  The ancient Mediteranean pirates were more organised, and the later North African pirates had their own government, but neither were good at technological upgrades, piracy faded considerably when cannon began to be used and almost disappeared with steam.  Also, and also notoriously, in the New World the pirates attacked the faction with the largest empire and most money...... 

However, all pirates attacked trade.  None deliberately razed ports, though they might loot them under the exceptional circumstances of a large joint raid.  No pirate would ever make a deliberate attack on a military force if it could be avoided, unless it was an isolated vessel.  Most New World pirates sailed independently, or with a few much smaller ships.

The pirates never have made any kind of sense in Sins, and it is just due to uninspired game development (the militia are nearly as bad).  They cannot move from star to star or through wormholes, yet their ships appear from nowhere?  The latest version allows them limitless ships...??  Tech upgrades like advanced alien civilisations?  Attacks on starbases?

There is much scope for piracy in Sins, any extended empire starts to depend on trade and with the right approach it would be easy to use the pirates as an anti-trade weapon that could starve empires, though Sins has always been extremely crude in terms of the underlying financial mechanics.  How they failed to implement ship capture as a replacement for the 'magic pirate ships' that spawn at the base is beyond me, it could hardly have been worse than this version- just as the consulate system could hardly have been worse than the current points win system, which is as poor as the pirates, but has attracted less notice.

How about the pirates get more ships for a raid dependent on the number of trade ships they destroy, plus any that returned?  And upgrades dependent on the number of military labs they takedown?  Even better, how about if they also get upgrades if the factions decide to donate them techs!  Simple, rational and elegant solutions.  If the pirates hadn't got enough ships, you couldn't hire any more.  But effective trade raiding takes a lot of micro, so pirates would be a superior solution to your own efforts.  I'd expect the pirates to expand drastically in the late game, unless the trading empires could take them out... a situation very unlike this version of the game, where the trade empires have the most money for pirates, so that pirates add to a lopsided strategic situation, rather than counter it. 

One man's mercenary thug is another's knight in shining armour, except that the other man probably has much more money....

I have to agree with the original post in that I'm finding the pirates to be WAY to strong early on in the game.  I'm trying to play a simple 6-player FFA against 5 AI's (i.e. solo game) and I am finding myself doing absolutely nothing in this game but deflect the pirates.  I haven't been able to expand beyond 5 planets because by the time I fend off the pirates with a few ships to spare, the next wave comes rolling in.  Really... 28 pirate ships per wave this early in the game?  After the 5th wave I just bag it and start a new game to see if I can do better, but the same thing keeps happening.  Outbid the AI and send the pirates elsewhere?  No way, I'm *always* outbid. 

AI-wise, do admit I'm impressed with the fact that the pirates are being more clever and attacking me from different angles.

I'm still learning to deal with the pirates in Diplomacy.  I just finished a large game with 3 pirate bases (can't remember the name of the map) with unlocked teams.  I kept forgetting to bid against any of the other AI's so I took most of the raids (I successfully deflected two raids, not the first raid though).  The first raid I just placed scouts to monitor their course and moved my fleet to meat them.  This was an Akkan and several LRFs, and maybe a couple LFs, I had a repair bay built an some gauss cannons.  This stopped the first raid, by the second I had a Starbase in place and a mine field.  After that the raids were halted (until the pirates hit a different world, had to do some fancy manuvering for that one).  I have found that if you don't bid up the pirates they don't send out as large of a fleet and they can be handled.

Now this was all on normal difficulty.  I haven't been able to deal with pirates and hard AIs in Diplomacy yet.

the only problem I have with the pirates, is that they scale up to such an insane degree. my game is slowing down, it's not just the pirates but they are becoming quite a problem. because the last pirate base is impossible to attack. there are hundreds of pirate ships that have returned from raids, and are just sitting around this base. how can I defeat hundreds of pirate ships, that are superior in every way to my own ships. I can fight off any raid they mount, but when they raid any of the AI they always have ships that survive, and head back to base, at this point it's almost the entire raiding fleet each time.

1 thing about pirates: they're not humans who will chase ur fleet if u decided to call it a retreat (after killing many but not all pirates)from their base

sometimes intercepting a surviving raid party before its returns to its base is somewhat beneficial

I agree that the main issue with Pirates now is the insane degree they scale up to (in power, not quantity).

I just finished a game with 3 Unfairs, and for the first hour or two, the Pirates came in handy for keeping the AI's occupied (or for keeping me occupied, when I lost the bid). But late game, after I'd taken out one of the AI's, I was hitting a stalemate with the other two, and ended it by systematically spending 10k on Pirate attacks to destroy world after world. It was inexpensive, simple to do, and the unfair AIs were completely unable to deal with it.

It's fun to a point, I love watching the strength of their ships slowly increase, every raid more intimidating than the last, but later on, it's as game ruining as it was before. Going to have to stick with leaving Pirates off for this version.

Perhaps the timer between Pirate raids could increase more as the game goes on? Half the time I'm seeing new raids launch before the previous battles are even over, and with their insane powers, it starts to get problematic.

I would but this was going on in another starsystem, I didn't know about it until it was too late. I'd have no problem with the jumping in killing some and retreating, but as you could  imagine, returning raid ships are all bunched together at the only way in. I would get swarmed instantly if I went in. I think I'm gonna try what I did with the other pirate base before it got to that point. which was just sending in 40 seige ships on a suicide mission. though I think I'll need more then 40 this time, if I want them to even get close enough to fire. lol

If you don't like the pirates turn them off, otherwise take some Mydol and quit your crying. Pirates are suppose to sail in and sink your battleship then sail out, thats what they do.

Maybe the simple answer would be increase the amount of time between raids. Maybe slow it down by half.

But I think the devs are pretty much done with this chapter of Sins.

They are probably gearing up to do their next project.

@wbino,

I doubt it, sure they might focus more on there 'next project' but remember, this game comes from a company that has a history of patching even older games, (if i wasn't half asleep at this point i'd give you an example)

No, sins is in good hands with these ppl, even if some ppl don't think its finished just yet,

I read through this whole thread and found it very interesting to read about the different opinions. I think pirates is a sreious matter. I must agree with those that demand a better (yes, one could call it more "realistic") pirate behaviour, rather than just raising their stats.

Their behaviour within gravity wells has already greatly improved, as they fan out. Heavies attack defensive structures, lights hunt down trade ships, sieges seek ways to bombard planets. Yet the devs seem not to have found a way to improve the overall AI behaviour of the pirate faction. This thread shows, that the community is already split which is already resulting in a popularity loss for this great game!

"Diplomacy" is already going in a good direction but it did not include a solution for the pirtate-issue. What needs to be done, in order to satisfy me and have a decent game become epic and my all-time-favourite:

Call the next addon "Age of Privateers" or just "Privateers" and introduce the pirates as individual faction with "bounty" as only diplomatic option when dealing with them. Have them start from their well defended home-base and behave much like any other AI faction. Get rid of the stupid timer and have pirates throw military force against factions according to the amount of bounty on their heads. This would of course need careful thought and balancing and yes ... time and testing. The problem with pirates is that, once released, they choose a random target and send a bulk of ships. Dumb and ignorant! Not pirate-like behaviour and very "unrealistic". No need to mention their absurd stats again.

So, what if they sent scouts like everybody else in order to seek out weak spots, then buy certain ships from the available bounty depending on their tech level... and use those ships exclusively against that player. What good make 20 siege frigates with armor 40+ if you can send a single one against a wisely chosen target and cause even more trouble. Just like the regular faction AI already does by script.

Make the pirates a real faction and all problems and discussions would end. Give this unique feature of this unique game the attention it deserves. Make the pirates more REAL in any means of behaviour! Give them REAL brains by making them a REAL faction! They deserve so much to be taken serious at last!

THX!

Just an idea, but i have put a mini mod together for this, it may not be a "slider", but i am hoping it will help, take a look if you want and let me know. Hope it makes the game a bit more fun and less hectic. 

Take care,

-Teal

https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/378900