Detroit in ruins
from 
JoeUser Forums
JoeUser Forums
I live near Detroit. This is where good intentions leads to.
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53 replies
I live near Detroit.
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What killed the city of Detroit is one simple thing. White flight. Black people moved into white neighborhoods and everyone was so panicked that they sold their houses for ten cents on the dollar. I still to this day don’t really understand it. These were hard working blue collar families and all they were doing was trying better themselves.
I’m sure that there are very many other reasons for the decline, perhaps even some of the reasons pointed out in the documentary that you link. But I was there and I saw the irrational fear in everyone’s eyes as they ran screaming for the suburbs. That might not be the only thing that killed Detroit but it was the first thing.
White flight is not the cause, but a symptom. It does not take a genius to see the results in many cities around teh country. Detroit just being one of the most prominent. The video is biased, but closer to the truth than the left would like to admit since it does show the fallacies of their policies. Great intentions, and lousy results.
Stardock ForumsIt's a little difficult to feel sorry...they (the residents) keep voting in more of the same.
White flight is not the cause, but a symptom.
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If you don't think racism was a major part of the problem then you simply don't know. One black family moving into an otherwise well maintained upper middle class neighborhood dropped housing values 75% and people couldn't leave fast enough. I know because that's about how much money my parents lost selling their house. The only folks that stayed were those on a fixed income that could not afford to leave like my godmother that stayed until her death in 1998. I visited her yearly and watched the city decline over the years from personal experience.
Have you ever even been *in* the city of Detroit, not the airport but the city itself?
LOL
white folks fled their homes like the Amityville horror because of black people, not because of depreciating values.
Its funny to get into the mind of an ultra liberal, not for too long though cause that could cause brain damage.
If you don't think racism was a major part of the problem then you simply don't know.
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One black family moving into an otherwise well maintained upper middle class neighborhood dropped housing values 75% and people couldn't leave fast enough. I know because that's about how much money my parents lost selling their house.
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Unless you're black, I suppose you should know your families racist past best. At least you have identified the problem, that's a start.
Unless you're black, I suppose you should know your families racist past best. At least you have identified the problem, that's a start.
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However I'd have to say that a lot more white folks than not that lived in Detroit during those times were racist. Remember "busing" had just been federally mandated and was universally despised.
Remember Cooley High School that I mentioned previously? I was there during the first anniversary of Martin Luther King's death when 4 white guys were killed by being thrown out the 4th floor window (defenestration, a popular way to get rid of unpopular kings in the 17th century). I'm very familar with both sides of racism.
Most of the time these things occur when Democrats begin their social tinkering. Home prices don't plummet in "well maintained upper middle class neighborhoods" just cause some black folks move in, they plummet when the Gov. opens low income housing projects and fills them with violent criminals and miscreants.
I am not black and you are absolutely correct that my parents were totally racist (and republican, actually card carrying John Birchers) which is part of the reason I have strived to be as unlike them as humanly possible.
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I can see how you are desperately trying to put the Republican stamp of failure on this one Mumble but you seem to ignore the fact that Democrats have controlled Detroit since 1962 due to the people of Detroit voting for them meaning "that a lot more white folks than not that lived in Detroit during those times were racist" and Democrats. Kinda interesting how you pointed that out for everyone so nicely.
White people left Detroit out or racism, Detroit being Democrat since 1962, basically making them racist Democrats. How funny is that. Thanks Mumble.
Regardless of party in charge and all - anyone mind telling me exactly what the deal is with Detroit and its alleged ruin? I'm afraid I'm uneducated on it. Are there any sources I could go to (preferebly academic).
Thanks, ~AJ
White people left Detroit out or racism, Detroit being Democrat since 1962, basically making them racist Democrats. How funny is that. Thanks Mumble.
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with Detroit and its alleged ruin?
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As far as the devastation every once in awhile I go to http://www.bing.com/maps/ and zoom down into a bird's eye view and scroll along Grand River Ave from downtown to the area where I grew up and to me it looks how I imagine Beirut looks. All along Grand River Ave for miles and miles while I was growing up there was nothing but nice little shops and stores. Every space was filled. Now whole blocks are empty and desolate.
In the early 1950's Detroit proper had a population of 1.8 million, by 1960 that was down to 1.6 million so white flight had already begun by then, as of 2000 it was down to about 900,000.
http://www.somacon.com/p469.php
LOL, I knew someone had to equate racism and republicans. So predictable.
I also notice they really can't argue much with what the video shows, liberalism is a failure on all levels.
LOL, I knew someone had to equate racism and republicans. So predictable.
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Read much?
While there certainly were white democrats in the city in the early to late 60's, far more whites were republican than democrat. However it was a race thing not a party thing.
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And how many corrupt mayors have we had?
This is taking the worst possible case of what happened in the past and saying that will happen to the rest of the U.S. if liberal policies/public assistance are enacted in the present or the future.
I can hear my college professors screaming 'logical fallacy!'
Is the problem of Detroit a democrat vs. republican thing? I believe, as Mumble stated, that white flight was the largest contributing factor. Combined then with A.) corrupt mayor after corrupt mayor, who, despite being democrat were greedy and padded their own wallets with federal money. B.) corrupt union officials.
Entitlement was and still is an issue, however I believe the sense of entitlement came after the first major blows had already been struck. I went to school and worked along Cass Ave, in the area around the Masonic Temple. In my years there, I saw a people who largely refused to help themselves, especially among the young adults and early middle-aged.
Liberal policies/government assistance... this post is growing too long, but I was about to contrast the social/ethical contrast of other communities around the world with those of Detroit.
Funny there were many other cities at the time that had a similar racial, political make up as Detroit, yet somehow blacks never displaced whites. Could it be that simple entitlement programs (cheap housing, lax welfare) that favored minorities drew large amounts of those folks to peck at the freebies. Of course with the good come the bad, and when crime rises I don't care who you are, you want to get away from it (call it racism if that label suits you). Jobs were still paying high at the time (through the 60's) on a national average, and of course minorities had some of those jobs as well. Maybe blacks are more tolerant of black on black crime, than whites are, anyones guess. But, something had to start the migration of minorities into the city. Some how I don't think it was a sign saying "Come to Detroit, with a racist Republican population and a Liberal Democrat government".
Nope it was the crumbs of entitlement programs used by the Democrat's since after the Civil War to keep what they could no longer own. Move the low wage folks in to feed the Unions and auto companies (they weren't quite as hostile to each other back then) with the promise of cheep housing and a solid "D" voter base. I'm sure the mass exodus of solid taxpayers was not an expected by product. They left the entitlement valve open a little too wide, a little too long IMO.
The sad thing is they are hell bent to repeat the same thing nationally. This time the bait is set for more than poor minorities. The base of folks wanting entitlements has grown across racial lines, and if he can get some, why can't I mentality has set in. Of course this is all at the pleasure of the modern day plantation owners, showing their benevolent generosity (of other peoples money of course) to the grateful masses.
The race issue is being used as a scapegoat here, just like the administration does. But it does have a relation to liberalism as this is what they do to get votes from people.
It's not just Detroit, look at other entitlement cities such as New Orleans and you will see the similar effects. Liberalism is dangerous.
Um the first person to relate party to racism was in fact Chuck in reply #10. The only comment I made other than noting that my parents happened to be republican (which in itself was only in response to Nitro's statement about my "families racist past") was the following.
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I didn't mention you, stop being so defensive. 
While you're welcome to your opinion, I was there, were you?
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Yes. I was in "Detroit" Virginia, "Detroit" California, "Detroit" NJ, and of course "Detroit" Michigan (among many). My opinion? Counts the same as yours (except I dont pretend I know it all), I have seen detroit and the other cities. I have lived in or around them most of my life. The commonality was the ability - facilitated by that great detroit product - of people to chose what they wanted. And they chose with their money. They (like most sane people) chose to maximize the return on their money. They work hard for it, and like to keep as much of it as possible to spend on the things that improve their life the most.
And believe it or not, most people (of all races, not just white, black or chartreuse) chose to move to safe environments that allow them to live as they see fit. IN the common vernacular, the suburbs. Taxes are lower, services (basic) are comparable, and the onerous taxes and rules are left behind in the rotting core of the past paradigm cities.
In other words, your opinion is stupid. But I would expect no less from mr, know it all. I can see that any rational discussion with you is fruitless as you think you know it all, and all revolves around your idealism of racism (which you apparently support), socialism and the greed of anyone who does not agree with you.
The truth is the vast majority (you know those that elected a minority president) are not racists. But they are not stupid either. Apparently you would have us believe that Michigan is a bastion of the KKK. It may be, but then it is people like you that make it a fertile feeding ground up there - vowing to vote for anyone - no matter how heinous - as long as they do not utter the magic words.
While you're welcome to your opinion, I was there, were you?
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I'm here NOW. Are you?
Seriously though, is that your argument? You were there?
Since I live here, I have the opportunity to talk to a lot of people who "were there".
One of the recurring themes regarding "white flight" has to do with the 1967 race riot. The question is what led to the race riot in the first place.
If you don't think racism was a major part of the problem then you simply don't know. One black family moving into an otherwise well maintained upper middle class neighborhood dropped housing values 75% and people couldn't leave fast enough. I know because that's about how much money my parents lost selling their house. The only folks that stayed were those on a fixed income that could not afford to leave like my godmother that stayed until her death in 1998. I visited her yearly and watched the city decline over the years from personal experience.
Have you ever even been *in* the city of Detroit, not the airport but the city itself?
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By this reasoning, every major city should have this problem.
In those days the white people in Detroit were predominately republican, the city was democrat because the blacks were overwhelmingly democrat. While there certainly were white democrats in the city in the early to late 60's, far more whites were republican than democrat. However it was a race thing not a party thing. Whites were simply afraid to have blacks living in the same area and so they fled and it didn't matter the party to which they belonged.
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And why were they afraid?
In 1961, Detroit had a high population of blacks (using your favorite source, Wikipedia, paints Detroit has a haven of middle class blacks http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1967_Detroit_riot).
But a decade of "the great society" and other social welfare programs helped create a dependent class. Why work when you could get paid to sit around? And with all that free time, why not have some out of wedlock children?
White flight, like I said, was a SYMPTOM.
All I know is what I experienced personally. As far as the policies etcetera that may have contributed to the decline, I don't know and perhaps the documentary may in fact be accurate. The only thing that I can state from personal experience is that if people want to claim that racism had nothing to do with it then they weren't there in that place and time and simply don't know. I was there in that place and time and I do know.
As far as the devastation every once in awhile I go to http://www.bing.com/maps/ and zoom down into a bird's eye view and scroll along Grand River Ave from downtown to the area where I grew up and to me it looks how I imagine Beirut looks.
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And white flight caused Detroit to look like Beirut? Really? So without whites, civilization is destroyed? A war zone?
I know you aren't intending to come across as racist but do you realize how patronizing of blacks you are being here?
If you pay people not to work, you will attract people who don't want to work.
The kind of person who thinks it's okay to live off the labor of others is soon going to feel entitled to more and more when that behavior is constantly reinforced.
Detroit's liberal policies encouraged the least productive people to move there. The color of their skin is irrelevant and reeks of racism imo. Protected by unions, the parasite class slowly displaced the productive class who moved elsewhere for opportunities based on merit and hard work.
Eventually, corruption and time made Detroit's gravy train come to an end and the result is seen in the video.
This doesn't require some sort of PhD to understand. People who work hard tend to resent those who live off their hard work and will eventually move to where their work will be appreciated and rewarded.
That's why socialist countries (truly socialist countries, not glorified city states like some European countries) end up with poorer and poorer standards of living, especially if they can move elsewhere easily -- like you can in the US.
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