Leauki

Join Date 02/2004

+85

Alaska Airlines about the Zionist Invasion

I think this is interesting:

"One of the things that really got to me was when we were unloading a plane at Tel Aviv," said Marian, who assisted Israeli nurses on a number of flights. "A little old lady came up to me and took the hem of my jacket and kissed it. She was giving me a blessing for getting them home. We were the wings of eagles."

Yemeni refugees arriving in IsraelFor both Marian and Warren, the assignment came on the heels of flying the airline’s other great adventure of the late 1940s: the Berlin Airlift.

"I had no idea what I was getting into, absolutely none," remembered Warren, who retired in 1979 as Alaska’s chief pilot and vice president of flight operations. "It was pretty much seat-of-the-pants flying in those days. Navigation was by dead reckoning and eyesight. Planes were getting shot at. The airport in Tel Aviv was getting bombed all the time. We had to put extra fuel tanks in the planes so we had the range to avoid landing in Arab territory." [One would assume that countries as worried about the destiny of refugees and so completely not anti-Semitic as the Arab countries would be very hospitable. Weird.]

British officials advised them that Arabs, angry over the establishment of the Jewish state, would certainly kill all the passengers and likely the whole crew if they were forced to land on Arab soil. Many planes were shot at. [Which is weird if you think about it, considering that the Arabs only wanted peace and merely defended themselves against Zionist aggression; this time Zionist aggression in the form of old ladies flying in a pessenger aircraft.]

Days often lasted between 16 and 20 hours and the one-way flights, in twin-engine C-46 or DC-4 aircraft, covered nearly 3,000 miles.

"We’d take off from our base in Asmara (in Eritrea) in the morning and fly to Aden (in Yemen) to pick up our passengers and refuel," Warren said. "Then we’d fly up the Red Sea and the Gulf of Aqaba to the airport at Tel Aviv to unload. Then we’d fly to Cyprus for the night. We couldn’t keep the planes on the ground in Israel because of the bombings." [Unfortunately the Zionist entity is now "oppressing Palestinians" and hence Israel is no longer too dangerous to keep aircraft over night.]

"One of our pilots got a little bit too close to Arab territory when flying into Israel from the Gulf of Aqaba and tracers started arching up toward the plane," Warren said. "Another one of our planes got a tire blown out during a bombing raid in Tel Aviv. One of our crews practically lived on their plane from the end of April through June."

Bob Maguire, another Alaska pilot, once had to drop down to several hundred feet above the ground, squirming through hills and passes, to evade Arab gunfire. [Typical Zionist expansionism.]

http://www.alaskaair.com/as/www2/company/History/MagicCarpet.asp

Note that these planes the Arabs were firing on were passenger aircraft. Of course shooting at pessenger aircraft (loaded with refugees, no less) is a war crime, but the "Palestinian Cause" excuses EVERYTHING.

(Also note that the last 200 Jews of Yemen were flown to America two months ago. For some reason they couldn't stand being firebombed every day any more, despite the fact that the firebombs were not thrown by anti-Semites and were only meant to alleviate Palestinian suffering, as any knowledgeable left-wing nut can tell you.)

You won't find details like that on non-anti-Semitic Web sites calling for the destruction of Israel, of course.

Incidentally, in the last 60 years more Jews have been killed in the name of valid criticism of Israeli policies than by anti-Semitism.

And if we count the Nazis as supporters of the "Palestinian Cause" (which they were), anti-Semitism (unless we include the "Palestinian Cause" as such) is really not a big problem; not since the middle ages anyway.

I for one feel safer knowing that if I ever visit an Arab country and somebody kills me it won't be because of anti-Semitism but solely, how did a left-winger explain this to me, "to bring food and water to the Palestinians".

I did in fact visit an "Arab" country. Luckily many in the middle-east are less anti-Sem... I mean critical of Israeli policies than the average European left-winger and I was thus a lot safer than I would be in some European cities.

Turns out many people in the middle-east know that they are being fed bull shit by the media and those that don't usually have no agenda against Israel and Jews and only remain, eh, "critical of Israeli policies" until they meet a Jew.

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...and yet you've shown yourself as an apologist for Israel, rarely (if ever) condeming their actions when appropriate. *sighs* To each their own dude, even if I disagree with it.

Hope your holiday has been great.

Peace, ~AJ

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...and yet you've shown yourself as an apologist for Israel, rarely (if ever) condeming their actions when appropriate. *sighs* To each their own dude, even if I disagree with it.

Sorry for being an apologist for Israel.

I happen to believe in defending the innocent, even Israel.

I realise that this is for many a position that simply cannot be accepted. How dare anyone assume that Israel is innocent? Why does someone not join in at least one wild accusation against the country or her people. (Afterall, everybody knows that Israel CANNOT be innocent and MUST have committed at least one severe crime. Oddly enough those that use such a logic never find fault in themselves. But they are not anti-Semites, despite that double standard.)

And again you display the very attitude I find so sad. You quote a part of my article about an Arab war crime and the only comment you have is that I am an Israeli apologist. Sorry, Alderic, I am very sorry. But Israel just doesn't fire at pessenger planes and no Arab aircraft ever fears Jewish terror attacks or being shot at by Israeli guns. That's just how it is.

Can you imagine the uproar if Israel would fire at an aircraft loaded with Arab refugees??? We wouldn't hear the end of it.

Alderic, I simply don't find it appropriate to condemn Israel for whatever crime people make up and attribute to Israel. It is indeed NEVER appropriate to join with the large group and condemn someone all the time, especially if the accusations are made up.

I keep wondering why you, as a gay rights activist, don't know that.

Did you notice that I never disregard your statements in favour of gay rights as statements of a "homosexual apologist" or demand that you join in at least one condemnation of whatever some religious fundamentalists make up gays do?

Heck, did you know that you guys undermine the moral fabric of society? It's true, somebody told me. But I have seen no evidence and even if I did I wouldn't care enough to join an anti-gay cause. I am just not an anti-X person. And if Arab nationalists and "Muslim" fundamentalists wouldn't constantly call for my death (as a son of dogs and monkeys) I wouldn't say a thing against them either. (The same applies to liberals. If liberals stopped supporting those who want to kill me, you wouldn't find me attacking them on my blog all the time.)

The only two reasons I ever commented negatively on one of your posts about gay rights was also not anti-gay in any way. One was about semantics (the meaning of "equal rights"), the other was about your support for an actual anti-gay cause (the "Palestinian Cause", which, as you should know, has little room for homosexuals except in graves).

Apart from that you will never find me "speak up" against gay rights advocates. It just isn't me, being against stuff. It's unproductive.

But as it stands, I guess I will continue support the imperialist and evil policies of the tiny country of six millon Jews that is barely visible on a world map but brutally oppresses its 300 million Arab neighbours (who apparently don't even have food and water), and you can continue undermining the moral fabric of America or whatever it is you guys do. Just know that when things get really bad and you are being hunted down like the Jews in the 30s and 40s (and even today in Arab countries) and blacks in Sudan, Israel will probably be a refuge for you.

And you cannot imagine how proud I am of that.

Americans feel awfully safe. And I remember your complaint was that Maine ultimately didn't accept gay marriage. But that's a far cry from the problems of Jews in the middle-east. Nobody systematically firebombed your house until you escaped to Vermont. And nobody than screamed bloody murder because you are now in Vermont. And people from the other side of the world did not condemn you for crimes you have never heard of until you read them in, say, the Australian press, which everybody believes you committed. And nobody is being denounced as automatically wrong for speaking up for you. And it is not expected from anyone to condemn at least one made-up moral deficiency of gay people.

I could go and and on but I think you'll never understand it unless you will be in a situation I wouldn't want you to be in.

(Want a test run? Let's say I accuse homosexuals of organised organ theft from people you murder. Now, go ahead, for this test run, and speak up and defend yourself against this charge. But if you assume that you are innocent or demand proof from me that such organ theft ever happened or that homosexuals did indeed murder people for that purpose, you will be disqualified. Let's see how far you can get if we apply the same rules to you that you apply to apologists of Israel.)

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AJ was an empty vessel that needed to be filled. They set it under an outhouse, and lo and behold, it was filled.

SO I made the mistake of reading his comment here. And realized how stupid and idiotic he is. He has no original thoughts, just the crap they poured into him. But then is he really different than any other liberal (US version)? Given what I have been reading and seeing of late, I fear he may be typical, not atypical.

As for the article, I am reminded of the series Centenial (Book by James Michener). In it, a red leg Colonel, Skimmerhorn, is asked what to do about some indian children. He tells the seargent simply "nits grow into lice". That is the attitude of the liberal establishment towards Israel. It does not matter what the intent of the mission is, but if it in anyway grows Israel, then any action to defeat it is justified. Nits grow into lice.

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I happen to believe in defending the innocent, even Israel.

So be it, I've no qualm with you believiog what you want, I just happen to disagree with what you believe. i.e. I believe in defending the non-combatant people killed by Israel. I believe a much greater/better attempt can be made to specifically go after the terrorists...instead of just sending troops in, bulldozing whatever, etc. Example, there was a story about five years ago where a man who ran a gas station had it bulldozed because of what OTHERS did, not him. Now is that right? No.

You claim that the MSN is anti-israeli, that they're biased. Perhaps, but then again perhaps Israel issues its own propaganda so that they're viewed in a positive light? They're a government, and one of the first rules of government is to aim for a good public image. Do you really trust the government, any government for that matter?

That said, leauki, perhaps you need to examine your biases. Not all of what Israel does can be right, they're not perfect. Additionally, not all of what Palestinians do is wrong. Every group/nation has their good and bad.

Bottom line is leauki, I have no problem with Israel protecting itself, but I have a lot of issues with the tactics they use - good intentions or not.

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Additonally, my point about your bias is your over bias. It's damn near: Israel never does anything wrong and Palestinians are evil - the whole world hates us.

Flat out, THAT is how you come across leauki. That's what I'm talkign about.

~AJ

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I believe in defending the non-combatant people killed by Israel.

And the terrorists believe in hiding behind civilians so that people like you, who believe that Israel is evil anyway, have something to scream about.

If you REALLY believed in defending the "non-combatants killed by Israel", you would, I am sure,

A write lots of angry articles about how upset you are that the terrorists always hide among innocent civilians and thus endangering them

and

B differentiate between lies about what Israel does and real cases where innocents were hurt.

But I don't remember you doing A and I have never seen you state that you didn't believe in a story about Israel killing someone innocent.

(You are not upset about terrorists using human shields, are you? And I am sure that even mentioning that terrorists do that is proof for some kind of bias, isn't it?)

I believe a much greater/better attempt can be made to specifically go after the terrorists...instead of just sending troops in, bulldozing whatever, etc. Example, there was a story about five years ago where a man who ran a gas station had it bulldozed because of what OTHERS did, not him. Now is that right? No.

Yes, I believe that you think that you are smarter and less evil than Israel.

But you are also NOT doing anything to stop the terrorists. In fact you are just supporting them very vocally here.

Why is it that the very group of people who blame Israel for everything and keep defending the terrorists ("the Palestinian Cause is about bringing food and water to Palestinians") always know better than Israel how to fight the terrorists?

(And how come the more active among that group are never actually fighting the terrorists but, if anything, can be found as human shields protecting terrorist hideouts?)

Is it really so difficult for you to understand that I really don't believe that Israel's government is evil and very active in the propaganda business?

How can it be that on the one hand you blame me for my pro-Israel bias but on the other hand you don't understand that I just don't agree that Israel is evil and hence don't arrive at the same conclusions at you?

And again you are using the "perfect" trick.

Every time I tell you that I don't believe that Israel is evil (or even as evil as you think) you tell me something about Israel not being perfect.

Alderic, can you not understand that it is absolutely possible for Israel, even for Israel, to be innocent and the good guy without being perfect???

Bottom line is leauki, I have no problem with Israel protecting itself, but I have a lot of issues with the tactics they use - good intentions or not.

So what are your issues with their tactics?

Israel kills _far_ fewer civilians than any other army in the world. Israel is the only country that builds hospitals for their enemies and the only country in the world that takes years of bombardment before firing back.

What is it about those tactics that you disagree with?

What is so objectionable about tactics that kill fewer people than everybody else's tactics?

Without pointing out that the tactics are Israeli, tell me what's so bad about them and what you compare them with. I want an objective answer. Give me an example of an Israeli tactic and tell me how another country solved the same problem. Then tell me what Israel did wrong or worse than the other country.

And I want a real example, not something made-up or something you read on Hamas' Web site or anything like that.

Additonally, my point about your bias is your over bias. It's damn near: Israel never does anything wrong and Palestinians are evil - the whole world hates us.

Again the "perfect" thing.

Can you tell me exactly why it is logically impossible for Israel to be innocent of a random crime people accuse Israel of AND not be perfect at the same time?

(And does this weird calculation apply to other countries too or just Israel?)

Flat out, THAT is how you come across leauki.

I never said "Palestinians" were evil. In fact I rarely use the term. I talk about terrorists and you equate whatever I say about them (Hamas and the PLO and other groups) as statements about "Palestinians" in general. I don't know why you do that, but I believe that it is a simple strategy to equate what I say about criminals with some form of racism. If I am against terrorism, I must be biased against Arabs, right?

I am not surprised that I come across as some kind of fanatic. I realise that the Israel-is-evil principle is so basically understood by so many that even doubting it seems radical.

You can try it out if you like.

Just fly an Israeli (about 2000 dead on both sides since 1990) and an Algerian (about 150,000 dead in the same time) flag next to each other and see which one will be denounced as symbolising evil by "peace activists".

Don't tell me that Israel-is-evil, the principle, does not make easily make up for 140,000 victims on the condemn-the-country scale.

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He has no original thoughts, just the crap they poured into him. But then is he really different than any other liberal (US version)?

Everything (he thinks) he knows about Israel comes straight from terrorist propaganda.

And so he thinks that the Israeli government must be very active in propaganda. I wonder if he ever took a look at Israel's youtube channel (when Google let it live for a few hours, it's regularly blocked) and check out the videos that prove him wrong?

(Although I assume that videos that actually show the IDF's tactics are propaganda whereas what he knows about the IDF's tactics is fact and a solid basis for condemning a nation.)

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Ok, so now I am waiting for three things:

1. Alderic writing an article comdning terrorists for endangering innocent civilians (which Alderic claims he is SO upset about).

2. Alderic explaining a tactic used by the IDF and comparing it with another army's and then pointing out what exactly it is the IDF did wrong and which he criticises them for.

3. Alderic watching videos on the IDF's youtube channel and explaining for at least one video how the tactic displayed in it is objectionable.

Should be interesting. Here's your chance to do something useful, Alderic. Let's see if your support for "Palestinians" goes further than condemning Israel and whether you actually know anything at all about Israeli tactics (and have reasons to think that they are objectionable).

I find it most interesting that the smallest conflict in the Middle-East is also the one where the most objectionable tactics are used, by the side that builds the hospitals for both sides no less. It's very interesting indeed...

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I must admit though that I do ignore news that don't fit my biases.

For example, if there have been any major demonstrations against Hamas for killing "Palestinians" or against Lebanon for attacking a "refugee camp" last year by people worried about "innocent Palestinians", I missed them. And my biases just made me assume that they didn't happen. Please correct me if my biases made me wrong here.

You see my biases make me believe that those demonstrations against Israel are caused by anti-Semitism (of course) and not by a desire to protect "innocent civilians". So obviously such a bias could easily make me blind to news that would so easily disprove my theory. So I take it there are constant demonstrations in front of Lebanese embassies because of how they treat "Palestinians" and I have merely missed them because of, as Alderic put it, my bias?

Please prove me wrong!

When Hamas took over Gaza they killed more than 500 "innocent civilians" (they were PLO supporters) while thousands of PLO supporters fled to the West-Bank via Israel. I hate and despise the PLO but I also tend to think that I am more worried about those PLO supporters' destiny than the "peace activists" who want to "help innocent Palestinians" have ever been.

When Israel killed 300 "innocent civilians" among 900 terrorists last January, protestors all over the world were shouting "Jews to the gas" (sorry, they were criticising Israeli policies, of course). But when Hamas killed 500 innocents while taking over Gaza; killed them not accidentally but threw them of high-rise buildings, that same crowd was quiet.

Where are the supporters of "innocent Palestinians" when Hamas murders those favourite victims? Where are you people when "Palestinians" are killed and Israel isn't involved?

Do you know who spoke up against Hamas' murder of innocent Palestinians?

It wasn't "peace activists".

It was the Zionists.

WE spoke up. Not you, we.

You remained quiet and only spoke up again when Israel could be blamed.

And then you accused us of being biased.

Shame on you.

Shame on you for speaking up when it was convenient and safe and for remaining quiet when those same "innocent" victims needed help and couldn't get it.

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Ok, so now I am waiting for three things:

You better have a lot of patience.

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You better have a lot of patience.

I am sure that once I write the next article about ANYTHING happening in the Middle-East, Alderic will be there to tell me how evil and biased I am.

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