Demiansky

A new take on Elite Units

A new take on Elite Units

In most strategy games, elite units generally come from "green" units that start out with low experience and slowly gain levels through combat.  Units attaining elite status can be anything from lowly spearmen to mighty paladins, and in game like Master of Magic, an elite squad of spearmen would be stuck as an elite squad of spearmen.  Granted, in Elemental you will be able to upgrade your units, it's still quite likely that your elite units will end up with pretty much the same gear as many of your green units, because you'll always be equipping and reequipping your units with your best gear.  I fear this may be the route Elemental is going: we'll see peasant boys turned promptly into green-horn death knights or paladins.

So I was thinking that perhaps while your units gain experience and levels in combat, something else happens as well.  Some of your soldiers distinguish themselves in combat and ascend to a higher level of "soldierdom."  After combat when experience is tallied, a certain proportion of your regulars are upgraded to veterans based on that experience gain (their numbers being replaced automatically in the unit they came from).  They would then go into a pool of veterans that can be retrained and re-equipped with better weapons and armor at your capital.  These new veteran units would be a step above your normal units and could use weapons and armor upgrades that your green and regular units would not normally be able to use.  They might also get "bonus training upgrades" that are only privy to elite units.  For instance, your regular soldiers may only be restricted to non-magical weapons and light to medium chain armor.  Your veterans could wear plate mail and flame swords.  Your elite could use magical, reinforced plate armor and swords of flame call.  Some techs might even revolve around specifically equipping non-regular units.  And once your veterans go into combat and succeed, a proportion of them will upgrade to "elite" units as well (perhaps there might even be a super elite tier as well.)  I envision the ratio of your regular, veteran, elite, and super elite units being something to the effect of around 100/25/5/1.  Of course this ratio would be different depending on whether you protect or throw away your elite units in warfare. 

What this does is allow elite units to truly shine, not only because they are stronger, better trained, and have better gear than your regulars, but because they are very difficult to replace.  Not to mention, you won't be seeing thousands of death knights and paladins swarming the battlefield, because it may be a requirement that they must be elite or super elite in order to take the armor, training, and weapons necessary to be a death knight or paladin. 

Decisive battles can be fought in warfare in stead of "tug-of-wars," too.  Normally, if you lose a stack of units (and this is especially true in Total War), you can just crank out rough equivalents with little effort.  With this system though, if you've been cultivating elite units throughout 3 wars and they are thrown away, you won't be replacing them for a very long time and you take a critical blow for the duration of the war.  What's more, you might also be able to gain elite soldiers at a greater rate with special techs, buildings, or spells (in addition to generating some passively in your society by cultivating a warrior/philosopher culture.)

Not to mention there are plenty of interesting quest tie ins: save the temple of Fer'nor from invading monsters and take your choice of a raw 100 veteran or 25 elite soldiers to be trained as you see fit.

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Reply #51 Top

How does it not make sense? If you give a magic weapon to a raw recruit, he is not going to be able to use it to its fullest potential. A veteran or elite units will be able to use the magic weapon much better, and thus get a larger bonus from it.

Reply #52 Top

Well, I don't think that mundane weapons should have an attack power of 1, unless its designed as such.

Training should be longer for more complex weapons, but the weapons' effectiveness should remain the same.

Of course, specialty weapons or magical artifacts could require a certain level to achieve full potential. (unlocked at level 5, and increase strength every 5 levels)

Additionally, a Bankai type weapon would be unlocked at level 20, and grow stronger with each additional level.

Reply #53 Top

My units will be trained to use the tech i have. Maybe you are underestimating new units. They are not conscripted, rather hired for their skills. We should hold off on whether or not our ideas make since until we are further along in developement though, you are right.

Reply #54 Top

If all your units are trained to use the tech you have, then it will take a long time to build. Some people will use 'cannon fodder' troops with low tech gear, or simply inefficient training. Perhaps you could do "half training" for the same weapon to get 75% weapon effectivness and only 50% the normal Hitpoints. That could potentially sometimes be "faster" or "more cost effective in a crunch time" than fully training your units to use weapons from lower technology.

Kind of like warriors vs champions debate in FFH. ( or even warriors vs axemen o.O )

Reply #55 Top

Quoting Tasunke, reply 52
Well, I don't think that mundane weapons should have an attack power of 1, unless its designed as such.

Training should be longer for more complex weapons, but the weapons' effectiveness should remain the same.

As stated in my post, the numbers given are only examples (placeholders, if you would) and have nothing to do with what I believe the actual strength of a given weapon should be. Anyway, why not separate weapon type and training time? That way, you would be best off giving your untrained cannon fodder conscripts easy-to-learn crossbows, while leaving the potentially more powerful (but harder to use) longbows to troops that you are willing to spend training time on. However, if you foresee the need for longbowmen in the future, but lack the funds to train them enough right now, you could still recruit them with little to no training and simply hope that they will gain enough experience to use the weapons to their full potential.

As for if it makes sense or not; picture it like this:

A crossbow is powerful enough to penetrate armour at close distance, but is rather inaccurate and takes time to reload. It is relatively easy to use, requiring little upper-body strength to reload (if you're using a crank) and you only have to point it at whomever you want dead. However, even though training with it will make you more proficient with it, you are still restricted by its very design. Even a veteran soldier won't make a (medieval) crossbow accurate or quick to reload, because those weaknesses are inherent in the weapons design.

A longbow, on the other hand, is hard to master, but is tremendously powerful once you have done so. In this weapon, the weakest part is most often in the soldier (ie. if you changed the soldier to a stronger and more experienced one, he could draw quicker, but if you instead changed the bow to a larger one, you wouldn't get any better results).

I do not know what the flaws are in this system (please point them out to me, so that I can refine my idea), even though they are there (there are always flaws in every unit and weapon design system), but I would say that the strength is that it ensures that certain weapons are best left to troops that you are ready to spend large amount of wealth and many turns to train, and other weapons best for conscript, while at the same time making sure that even the conscripts get better at handling their weapons as they gain experience.

Reply #56 Top

Crossbows = more expensive equipment

Longbows = much longer training times

 

weapons/armor = attack and defense

High level units = more HP and faster attack sped

 

some "super weapons" will probably be stronger with higher level Soldiers. Something like +10% HP, +1 HP regen per kill, +2 attack speed ... and every 5 levels it adds +1 attack and +1 defense, and at level 20 it adds +3 attack (extra), and at level 30 it adds +50% damage. And level 40 adds +5 attack, +3 defense

The base Attk of such a weapon would depend on what was used to create it, but probably a Mid to High tier sword, axe, or pike

(extremely hardened veterans have a chance to get to level 20, and many might, however only a rare few will get to level 30 and beyond)

A potential "bankai" could be an Item that increases your attack and defense by 50% of your current weapon's attack. Additionally, attack speed is doubled. Only usable for level 20 units and up. 21-25 increase the % bonus by 10, so that level 25 is 100% of ur weapon's attack is added to ur Attack and Defense. It continues to increase at the same rate, so by lv 30 its 150% of ur weapons attack is added to Attk/Def. Additionally at level 30, your attack speed is tripled (only units level 30 and above can have attack speeds "greater than 10" ... if thats possible, if not extra "attacks left over" convert to a % increase on damage to any strikes that make contact) ... at level 40 its 250%, and attack speed is quadrupled. (level 30 and level 40 are extremely rare)

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Reply #57 Top

I have changed my mind. I want demonic monks that all use a quaterstaff. Cheap, quick, easy to train.

Reply #58 Top

Excellent ellaboration on the idea, Tasunke.