This sounds like an easy enough situation to rectify to me.  Just eliminate (or severely reduce) experience from killing pirates.  Problem solved.

Not really as the pirates are meant to be a double-edged sword.  Yes, you pay them to attack someone else, but that target doesn't only receive a penalty, but a chance at increasing the strength of their fleet.

My take: pirates are good as it is. They are something to worry about now, but if you set up proper defenses, you can shrug them off. Need no nerf as is.

Whats this [Fixed Next Build] part thats been added to the title? There was nothing wrong with them frogboy. This is just like in wow where failures and scrubs can't beat something so they cry and cry till it gets nerfed...good job cry babies.

I think the pirates are perfectly fine early on.  However, it is a bit unreasonable that they scale without limit later in the game.  I do like them being tougher than the minor nuisance they used to be.

In this game I confronted them more than 5 times also because as soon as they are about to leave to atk (with the bounty I placed on someone else) the AI will often try to place it on the player (or another faction) in the last seconds. It's being needed to keep looking at the bounty all time, being distracted from the rest of the game. They are going after the same planet which is fully upgraded to 6000hp and its health lasts for 40 seconds at max. Then its not just about loosing the planet so fast, but as something is so strong, everything else looks very weak. Planets don't look like the big strongholds they once were anymore, where some effort was needed to take it down.

I'm long in a game (tough with just the same 4 planets since begging and most of the important researches already done) against 3 Unfair level AIs and none of them offered danger yet, just the pirates. I whitnessed 2 pirate ships (that one with machine guns in front and in the back) takeing down a mainteined respawn of 30 squadrons. As soon as they were respawning and going after it, they'd be taken down in a single burst (1,59 second), one after another all meanwhile these 2 ships were exchanging fire with 2 capital ships and some frigates.. looked like it was sending fire in all 360 degrees with perfect accuracy if we suppose that is needed.

Another thing, 2 of the AIs began to make diplomacy with my civ offering trade and cease fire. They send envoy. I suppose I should have sent too to maintain it... tough I was dealing with - guess whom? - at the time, and they both canceled the agreements almost together (as coincidentaly they also offered in about the same moment) in just a few minutes, trowing all the relationship to 0 again. It appears as we just have the time to build the envoys right away also not mattering the situation currently in. A bit more time could avoid it or to loose less earned diplomacy points. It went from 4+ to 0 (thus neutral to hateful) because of 5 minutes in which I guess I should have sent envoys right away. Dispite to much pirate buzz I began to enjoy it when offered diplomacy treaties but then it was all broken. Much boiled down to the pirate confront, I must have been watching to take down almost 1000 of them.

Ill try diferent things to deal less with them later, tough I will not remove them out because I don't enjoy to play with missing elements. I never removed them from a game in sins.

I'd like the bidding system to be modified slightly, first by changing the amount we have to bid from 250 everytime to:

First bid: 250$

Second bid: 500$

Third bid: 750$

Fourth bid: 1000$

And so on...

That way it makes bidding a lot more costly and a lot more rewarding to the player who had prepared for the raid by preserving his credit.

My second recommendation would be to allow all players a delay of about 10 seconds to re-bid if someone bidded higher than you, that way you still have the opportunity to win the bid and not get beaten with a 250 credit bid at 0.5 seconds before the raid launches. I would like to see the "10 second" timer active so I know how much time I have left before the pirates attack.

https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/375601

I admit I exaggerated now that I learned more how to deal with the pirates or diplomacy expansion in general. Like I said before, much of what I found strange was them beating all good ships considering 1vs1, giving the sensation of the cheat. But I'm often amazed by sins, its one of the most balanced games I ever saw and best AI for the npc and UI displays. Most of the many faction skills are so complex and still works flawlessly.

The subject is the pirates. There is much more challenge to it so now we need to find out the best paths of the faction we like, which is the point. And in lesser difficulties there can be the pirates still to be troublesome. Anyone new to the game, with giving time you learn to measure the time and hear the faction warning about the bounties. That would pass freely to me without giving attention before diplomacy, but I have been playing and now I'm always focused when the factions says its both warnings about the 'bounty have been increased on me' and also 'pirates will depart', both before they go out and the bounty ends.

The pirates are complicated in the beggining if they come after you but in late game they arent so much, tough they still can break maximum defenses (all capacity used), but I never got used to using mines (rarely starbases too) because of playing original sins to much (still have to remember myself to try those and even pacts now), so with more than the basic defense slots its of course possible tough still expensive in any way.

But also, there must be a open mind about the fact that the pirates can help. I played against hard AIs and didnt got the pirates on me in start and middle of the game, always being possible to counter the bounty. But that is much due to the fact that before hand I tryed to prioritize more the economy exacly because of the pirates now, which is basic to avoid them especialy in the beggining. And they can help the player but it may look subtle depending on the AI level. But against harder AI's what I think they still do, is lessen their planetary conquest (colonization phase) a bit which is very nice. Its not a big problem for those AIs to loose some ships (especialy from the pirates because their fleet looks small later game, doesnt seem to increase in number) but its like I said before, holds them some and what the player spents is very worthwhile since the bidding wont go to far against the AI. They can also delay some factions from attacking you, and mainly for the player time is progress.

Pirates can still be nice as they are but some different strategies from before diplomacy might be needed, not to mention some detachment from what we used to conceive the pirates. Which simply means that the game just came out a couple of days ago lol, so this topic is good because we can discuss, share some hints and yell at the pirates some. I still hate them by the way, I'm usually the only one giving them profits, but as said, they can surely do some dirty work for you which is nice when in a challanged match.

I've switched back to vasari (who I'm best with) to see if I can cope with the pirates. The orky has an easier time vs the range of the weapons for obvious reasons. Also just been playing on "desperation" - I  developed a tactic of sneaking an antorak behind enemy lines (to the asteroid on the outside of the ring), then jumping a whole fleet in to take it, using an orky for defense when they realised what I was doing. The AI, after losing a few caps, retreated back to their main planet. All I did then was wait - inevitably I ended up with a ton of pirate raids in my direction (I'm still convinced pirates head for the top player in the list when no bounty is set!). The fun part is, for this insanely powerful pirate raid to reach my weakest planet, they had to head through the heavily defended homeworld of the AI I'd just pinched the 'roid from. This meant a) the pirates never reached me with more than a few weakened ships and b) the AI's defences got repeatedly clobbered by pirates without me spending a single credit! Rinse and repeat...

I definately think pirate difficulty settings are needed. For maps like this, and when playing vasari (generally better at subtle tactics than the other two races) I think tough pirates are fun. For other maps, and for me as advent or TEC, I'd want much weaker pirate raids.

Pirates should also have ion cannons to target specifically tactical structures (maybe ships too), to disable them so that their raid can be more effective.  a 'jam weapons' skill, which reduces enemy wepon accuracy would also be in line with the idea of pirates. 

Given that the idea of pirates is pillage and burn, hit-and-run actions, They should also by default target primarily logistic structures. They should go after trade/refinery ships, trade ports, refineries, resource roids and labs. 

And they should know to stay outside of starbase range. 

Yep I think they used to sound a bit more like pirates when they would destroy ports etc mainly, but they were extremely weak. Still, these structures are easy to protect from them with beams. Im likeing the pirates AI, especialy to see them go arround the panets defenses for a blank spot even tough if in the end they wont find it, still catch a better spot. Its weird tough that pirates often go atack till they are destroyed as if that payment would worth it.

I think two new AI reactions would be good:

First that after a giving basic time pillaging, the pirates could run if they notice a much superior fleet of that target coming after them or very close by. Not to mention the ability to run from a loosing battle (after most downs) just like the other AIs. This would produce more realism imo (even if just a few are running away) and also dissuade from free xp, which is still possible but just after the player created a big army. I think its strange that they always rush till complete annihilation being only the bounty their issue.

And that they would choose the defenseless planets more - the backyards -, instead of usualy going after the closest, even if they need o sneak past others (so sometimes having a jump inhibitor could be worthwhile and also some need to spread the defenses/guard the phane lines in which they will still pass but hopefully with some damage). At least after they attacked said planet and know it is heavily guarded. This would make their AI harder so they could also first of all try to destroy structures as sometimes they do. I think this would be good in case they get a bit nerfed. Hard to counter AI reactions usually go on better than extreme strength and can also be more difficult.

Sounds fine to me. Why would pirates put in as much work for 500 credits as 5,000 credits anyway?

How about a new pirate launching mechanic. Right now, unless you manage to get the pirates to attack, you just wasted a ton of money. I dislike the all-or-nothing approach.

So I thought of a dispersal pattern. Say you have three players with bounties of 1000, 750 and 250.  When the pirate wave is spawned, it is divided into three groups on a 1000:750:250 ratio, so everyone gets a piece of the cake. This way, i you place a bounty on someone, you get your pirates to attack them, no doubt about it, and you also lessen the number of pirates that are after you.

Very good idea! I agree.

Well, i have played a long game and fought 400+ hull pirates. Yes, you can beat them. Yes, it cost you dearly to wipe them off your gravwell, you can be sure that when they become powerful enough, you are guaranteed to have your gravwell wiped clean unless you drop in a massive fleet + reinforcements. Yes, they need tuning, as you can destroy the A.I.s by proxy wars. 

Teh bidding war does need to be fiixed...when playing against any purple colored(difficulty) AI, you cannot meet the bids because of the ecoboost they get meaning you will almost always automatically lose.   (the bidding war and the game)  This is because they are alwasy attacking you and the ai alwasy jumps in at that point (which is good strategy dont remove that)and the pirates are so tough that the first raid isnt destroyed and a second one is on its way!!!

 Once all structures are destroyed the pirates should leave.They should only build their army off of the money given to them plus half the cost of any structures they destroy.  

Pirate bidding should have been made seperate from bounty of players.....you should only be able to make one offer to pirates per cycle... you would be able to type in the amount..   

I dont see why bounty is still there.  It should have been moved (from pirate tab to the diplomacy tab). 

(have a tab in the missions screen that says offer bounty to player which will open a window similar to the one in the pirate bidding window.   this could almost be used instead of the missions. (favor would be gained as they collected the bounty)

Empires dont hunt for bounty.. only pirates and mercenaries.

  there should be more things to offer as well... what if I want to give my ally a planet?   or ships?    

i meant leave the one in the pirate window AND put one in diplomacy tab

the one time bounty for pirates was also to help with desyncs since it looks like sometimes the pirate indicator ends up on two players in an intense bidding war...  figure this might cause some of them

Has anyone managed to take the pirate's homeworld yet? I set up a fleet of 300+ ships including 16 level 10 capital ships plus 6 artifacts, maxed out research and a supply pact which allowed me to have that many ships. Pirate had 71 reapers, 56 corsair and about 120 of other ships. I only managed to destroy less than half of their ships

Did you ever consider removing/lowering the XP points rather balancing their power?

I have had to turn the pirates off in Diplomacy. They are too difficult at the moment.

Corsairs with 22-27 armor? That's higher than my upgraded starbases! Let alone my capital ships.

What I don't get is why the pirates come with siege ships? Pirates have only an interest stealing/making money. They shouldn't have any interest in killing the populace. Unless they're reavers from Firefly or something.

I have to send my largest fleets and even they have a hard time stopping the pirates before they kill off my colonies. The AI gets systems completely wiped out by the pirates. Get rid of the siege ships. Pirates should cause havoc with trade/production infrastructure. But shouldn't be bombing the colonies. There's no money in that.

Just my two cents.

It not about them gaining money by taking it from you, someone paid money for them to disrupt you. Not all income comes from tradeports. There no better way to cause havoc than to nuke the planet so you have to spend money to recolonize it and rebuild it.

Its the most distruptive thing they can do.

Thinking the pirates are like pirates of today and older ages, you know the kind that steal to make a living, will give you the mentality alot of us had/have. Pirates are not doing their 'role' right.

But the pirates in SINS dont rely on what they steal to make income. Someone pays them before they even leave to do cause trouble. So while their name suggest they steal like pirates, they are not. They are Mercs, more or less. But they could be called pirates, due to lore. Thats just a guess, Im sure anyone who acted outside the Trade Orders guidelines was branded a 'pirate'.

Anyhow, bombing a planet is a must for pirates. Nothing else they can honestly do will cause you more potental income or stall you than losing a planet.

Yep.  If you think of em as Mercs, it all changes.

I cant see how some people are defending against the pirates early game your right they are still a force to consider but shouldnt wipe you out but once u get later and later it gets absurd. i had a fleet of 60 or so pirate ships 18 of them being siege frigates and each one of those siege frigates had 2900 health and 15 armor. Nothing except your entire fleet a star base and some very tough defences will save your planet and if its an asteroid forget it dont even try.

For now i turn pirates off i liked the pirates in sins and entrenchment they could mess with your foe but never really wipe him out. Occasionally if every wave of pirates went from the start of the game after him 5 or so waves later that single player would be knocked out or close enough to not even be a threat. Late game pirates were just fodder then almost better to send em on yourself free xp if u could .