[Feature request]Limited ressource quantities available at Black Market & more price fluctuation

from Sins Forums

I believe what I'm going to suggest has already been brought up multiple times over the course of these forums' life time but since Diplomacy makes for an excellent time to reconsider it I'm posting here.

I believe it is a mistake to have unlimited quantities of crystal and metal available available at the Black Market. I also think the in fact quite low ceiling (~600 credits) on price fluctuation puts too much limit on what could otherwise be an interesting game aspect: Economic warfare, using the forces of supply & demand to battle the enemy. This is something that's already featured in the game but simply not taken far enough.

If the Black Market ressources were limited coupled with price fluctuations being bigger, that would allow for some very interesting scenarios that would add a whole new layer of strategic considerations to the game. Example: In a 2v2 match, one side has managed to secure a large cache of ice planets, providing crystal. They also control some volcano planets. The other side, however, has mostly terran and volcano planets. They only hold one crystal planet. This isn't enough to fuel their war machine and they are forced to buy more on the black market. But because the side controlling the crystal won't sell and the quantity from the black market is limited, the price is sky-rocketting and they find themselves paying some 2000 credits per 100 crystal - and that's only if some is available!

Basically, by limiting the black market in this way players would be requred to think a lot more carefully about what planets they expand their empire to, as they want to secure both crystal & metal ressources. It would offer a lot of intriguing new situations, many of which could add to the diplomacy metagame. For example, there could be a 'ressource trade agreement' option (just like the current trade ship one) that would bind both players to exchange a certain percentage of a ressource to the other (metal for crystal & vice versa) for a duration of ie. 20 minutes. Or, a player with a stronger military might demand a tribute of a percentage of another player's income in exchange for forced peace for the next ten minutes.

I think this suggestion has multiple merits: It shouldn't be too hard to implement since much is already featured in the game and would just need a bit of tweaking. It also fits well with the whole theme of Diplomacy. Third, it simply expands the economic warfare aspect of the game enough for it to be considered a whole new feature. Fourth, it helps correct some balance problems with the current game by making ressource extractors more attractive compared to trade ports. Finally, it helps to deepen the ressource system, making credit, crystal and metal income less generic and instead something you have to give strategic consideration.

6,843 views 13 replies
Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top

I agree with Apheirox.  An economy with unlimited resources is not an economy at all. All the elements of this 4 X RTS game would be enhanced with a limited /  production curve on resource option in the game.

 

Wars are fought over resources, and in a game all about warfare, diplomacy, research and development... unlimited resources just does not fit in.

 

Just another reason for the AI to be Beefed up but it would also make cheating AI hard to fight against... which is a bonus!

Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top

Black Market resources availability should also depend on number of gravity wells dominated by pirates. 

So, I think pirates should colonize too.

They, as well, should have income, and some of their metal and crystal will surely end up in the hands of the highest bidder.

 

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Reply #3 from Sins Forums Top

Perhaps pirates that attack trade ships and stations and possibly even military ships could artificially add more resources to the black market pool.

As for the original idea, I've long thought the penalties for mashing the buy button weren't strong enough.  I really like the concept of evaluating how much total extraction is going on in the game's universe versus how much one is attempting to buy up at once.

Reply #4 from Sins Forums Top

there is the issue of random maps.. i have had maps where I have had 3-4 volcanic... and there are not even a single ice on my team's side of the map...

which means your crystal income is preety much screwed.

which means... scout and lf spam!! yay!!

Reply #5 from Sins Forums Top

Mazuo has hit the nail. destroying trade ships should deduct part of the resources of the player and put part of them at the black market. 

But independent of all this, the pirates should have at least a trickle-income of each resource, at least to feed the market.

Pirates should also gather resources by scavenging i.e. pirate ships should have an ability similar to the orkulus, which eats debris, but they get resources instead of health.

Reply #6 from Sins Forums Top

I like the ideas in this topic. A lot.

Reply #7 from Sins Forums Top

I beleive the black market did use to be uncapped, or at least had a higher cap early on in Sins.  It was then tweaked to the current system.  Why?  TEC wins due to getting all the crystal first.  You'd have to give everyone access to Trade Ports at the same time in order for something like this to work.

Reply #8 from Sins Forums Top

Well, at least conceptually if crystal was the resource most in demand and there was very little of it, pirates and the black market could be tuned to recognize that fact and their pillaging and trading would revolve around creating a lot more crystal wealth for the universe as opposed to metal or simply credits.

I'm assuming that's a lot harder to implement than the idea itself, but I like the sound of it.

Reply #9 from Sins Forums Top

I like the idea, but there won't be time to implement this for Diplomacy.

Reply #10 from Sins Forums Top

Noted.  Thanks for letting us know though, Yarlen.

Reply #11 from Sins Forums Top

Yeah,  I have been chirping up every now and then about having a "Closed Economy" option for the game so there wasn't unlimited resources available.  It would make it a lot more important to secure the right planets and a lot more strategic than spam tradeports everywhere.   =)

Hopefully we might get the switch some day so no resources are available for sale unless a player sells them into the black market first.

Reply #12 from Sins Forums Top

another variation of the idea could  be for the lost crystal & metal production (due to lower loyalty) be the black market pool, at least that could fit the lore better and move it toward a closed economy

harpo

 

Reply #13 from Sins Forums Top

For the most part I can agree with what you are saying but this has a big drawback flaw.  That being Multiplayer.  There is always going to be that one guy who will abuse the market more than others.  And when it came time for you to go and use the market the market would be dried up, no more money left for you to get what you needed.

This type of market would only be good for a single player game, this will not work for MP unless they come up wit ha way that each players sees the market seperatly and has its own limitations set.

Personally I liked the way it was handled in Conquest, each planet had a limited number of resourses after that planet ran dry it forced you to more out into the system to aquire newer resourses.  This also prompeted large scale battles with others to gain control of a system and forced battles to keep that system.  I think if they ever make a new Sins 2 this type of planetary mining and resourse gathering should be considered.