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from WinCustomize Forums

Maybe this could help at least me understand the changes that have crept up around Stardock and this Wincustomize branch of Stardock.  I have lurked around here since Windowblinds was a beta before version 1.  This was like .6 or .7 when I found it.

When Windowblinds was created, the skins created for it were free.  Makes us wonder... was Windowblinds originally created with the intention of having the skins for it free or sold seperately.  I don't know if the original Windowblinds programmer is still in the community, but I would love to hear from them about this question.   The Whole community offered the skins for free.  As Stardock grew, it created a host of other products to skin other parts of windows.  There was a charge for this program, that program, etc.  Soon a subscription service was offered for everything.  And recently, this complete subscription service was fragmented into subsubscriptions with only parts available to each. 

Then we have their skin site spun off and being offered as a subscription service to get rid of commonplace internet adds and maybe one or 2 select "premium" skins.  In and of itself, this subscription service is selling additional skins offering profit shares to some (but not all) skin creaters.

Everytime I see a new Master Skinner, I lament the loss to the community as a whole.  Stardock (or is it Wincustomize) has taken this artist away from the general public and put them with a small group of skinners to cater to a minute customer base.  It may sound fine and dandy to split $4.99 with Stardock per download, but the product exposure has just been reduced by a few factors of 10.  Question for you master skinners......  before you were a master skinner, I bet you loved to look at your skin downloads.  Pride in knowing how many people liked your work.  How many of you are getting anywhere near that amount of downloads with your premium skins?  I know it may put a couple of dollars in you and Stardock's wallet, but there are a lot fewer people seeing your work.

Could this be a cause of our shrinking community?

 

65,913 views 64 replies
Reply #51 from WinCustomize Forums Top

The price of getting started:-

W7 PC £700
OD Sub: £30
PSP: £50
Skinning talent: priceless

Reply #52 from WinCustomize Forums Top

Here's some software pricing for you. I create dreams and here's some of what I have...

Vue 7 Infinite Upgrade $295.00

3dsMax 2009 upgrade $1,600.00 

ParticleIllusion 3.0 $389.00

Adobe CS 4 Production Premium Upgrade $599

TMPGEnc 4.0 XPress $99.95

Some of these are upgrade versions...imagine the cost if I didn't have versions I could update

I was lucky and had a friend in the design business that lost his ass. He had to sell some of his software and licenses and I would have never have been able to buy some of these any other way.

 

 

Sins of a Solar Empire II
Reply #53 from WinCustomize Forums Top

design software was what was mentioned, OS's and hardware weren't.

PSP X2 ($279 AUD.. a tad more than $70 USD)

psp x2 is the latest. back when, psp7 cost $70US new. I just picked up psp10 used off the internet for $40US.

I dare any one who Claims skinning is cheap and easy to prove it, work ur butt off to become a master by, buying all the necessary tools, OS's,PC or drives, partitions, spend mass hours honing ur craft to perfection, get promoted. Then lets see if you still feel the same about master skins.

now, now. you misunderstand. I was just wondering if I was missing an edge cause' my software didn't cost thousands. to me, it's all about talent. I'll never become a "master" skinner but I'm getting better and learning all the time and I'm enjoying myself. Getting more expensive software probably won't help my cause, but then...

Reply #54 from WinCustomize Forums Top

GMC it was a blanket dare, not directed towards you. My appologies if it looked that way..

Reply #55 from WinCustomize Forums Top

All this being said, I gave it some thought, and IF I ever become a master, I will not charge for my skins.  Some people see skin creation as a hobby that can make them money (or at least recoup some of what they put into it), but for me, skinning is an expression of my emotions; it's an outlet for my passion.  Every skin I make is like a little creature I gave birth to, and I derive immense joy giving that away -- releasing it out into the world.  Philosophically I don't think there are enough free things in the world, and that the world would be a better, happier place if there WERE more free things in it, so I'm paying it forward with what I create.  It's kind of a "mother" thing in me.  I don't ever want this to become "a job" -- something that I would feel pressured to do, something that I would have to my business mindset to--caving to the pressures of the demand of the masses, being held up to a higher critique because it's now my wares rather than my gifts.  

Logically I can see where it makes total sense for masters to charge for skins.  It will just never be right for me, personally.

Reply #56 from WinCustomize Forums Top

Quoting CarGuy1, reply 52
Here's some software pricing for you. I create dreams and here's some of what I have...

Vue 7 Infinite Upgrade $295.00

3dsMax 2009 upgrade $1,600.00 

ParticleIllusion 3.0 $389.00

Adobe CS 4 Production Premium Upgrade $599

TMPGEnc 4.0 XPress $99.95

Some of these are upgrade versions...imagine the cost if I didn't have versions I could update

I was lucky and had a friend in the design business that lost his ass. He had to sell some of his software and licenses and I would have never have been able to buy some of these any other way.

 

 

And Cars still makes his incredible dreams and doesn't charge for them...his Startrek Dream is a Masterpiece. His Hanukkah Dream will be on my HDTV this holiday...enriching far more than that...my home and Anne's. We are blessed with such talented people who have the gift of the creation of beauty.

If CG's dream cost me ... whatever... I would buy it in a heartbeat to support him and what he does: It's priceless...inestimably valuable to me.

Reply #57 from Stardock Forums Top

Hmm... correct me if I am wrong. I too have "lurked around" wb since almost day one. I am very greatful for the many wonderful skins that have been made for the program. It seems to me that every time I see a new master skinner I do not lament it as a loss but rather rejoice in the fact that Stardock is one of the few avenues that allow those with talent to profit from their creatiness.

Reply #58 from WinCustomize Forums Top

creatiness.

Creativity....;)

The price of the hardware/software is actually mostly irrelevant.

The real 'cost' is in the practise/learning/skill and aptitude end of the equation.

Anyone can 'push buttons'.  Pushing the RIGHT ones is where it takes time/experience/skill....;)

Reply #59 from Stardock Forums Top

creativity. Yes! Thank you Jafo!

Reply #60 from WinCustomize Forums Top

Quoting HG_Eliminator, reply 54
GMC it was a blanket dare, not directed towards you. My appologies if it looked that way..

none taken, just gave me an excuse to respond.

The real 'cost' is in the practise/learning/skill and aptitude end of the equation.

my point also.

I create dreams and here's some of what I have...

I haven't looked into dreams, hmm...

Reply #61 from WinCustomize Forums Top

It's priceless...inestimably valuable to me.

Photoshop ~ $300

Random pics of WC members ~ free

The result~ Priceless

 

 

 

Reply #62 from WinCustomize Forums Top

Quoting k10w3, reply 55
All this being said, I gave it some thought, and IF I ever become a master, I will not charge for my skins.  Some people see skin creation as a hobby that can make them money (or at least recoup some of what they put into it), but for me, skinning is an expression of my emotions; it's an outlet for my passion.  Every skin I make is like a little creature I gave birth to, and I derive immense joy giving that away -- releasing it out into the world.  Philosophically I don't think there are enough free things in the world, and that the world would be a better, happier place if there WERE more free things in it, so I'm paying it forward with what I create.  It's kind of a "mother" thing in me.  I don't ever want this to become "a job" -- something that I would feel pressured to do, something that I would have to my business mindset to--caving to the pressures of the demand of the masses, being held up to a higher critique because it's now my wares rather than my gifts.  

Logically I can see where it makes total sense for masters to charge for skins.  It will just never be right for me, personally.

Nicely said, Karen, bravo for you.  I particularly like the birth and motherhood references, the emotional aspect of your work.  It helps us understand there is another human being involved behind the creation.  All too often in this crazy world it's business, business, business, profit and pressure, so your sentiment is refreshing as much as it it welcome. 

Thank you. :) :thumbsup: :sun:

Reply #63 from WinCustomize Forums Top

This is a greast discussion.  Software can cost a lot.  And yet, it actually doesn't have to...  depending on your platform.

Still haven't seen many hard numbers that really justify the cost of the software and the 1000's of hours that are spent on one skin.  There is a lot of talk. Anyone who literally spends that amount of time on one skin for that amount of money is not doing this to make money.  They are doing it because they enjoy it. Yes, it can be an artform.  And I see this as an artistic form.  Maybe we should think about the value of this as an artform.  Yes, $$

 

 

 

 

 

 

Reply #64 from WinCustomize Forums Top

This is a greast discussion. Software can cost a lot. And yet, it actually doesn't have to... depending on your platform.

Still haven't seen many hard numbers that really justify the cost of the software and the 1000's of hours that are spent on one skin. There is a lot of talk. Anyone who literally spends that amount of time on one skin for that amount of money is not doing this to make money. They are doing it because they enjoy it. Yes, it can be an artform. And I see this as an artistic form. Maybe we should think about the value of this as an artform. Yes, $$



 

my rough geusstimate: a few grand easy on programs and software for artwork, 80bucks on odnt. plus extra $ for any other stardock prog i have bought.

1month plus on a wb

a week on a cursor

2 to 3 weeks on a icon packager

a week on a sysmetrix

a week on a wallpaper (mine are very detailed, i dont go for the vertical lines look)

a week on a xion

a month easy for dx theme. (im very slow at those)

 

*** edit, i cant believe i forgot to mention this.... ive also purchased 2 brandnew computers in the past 3 years  just to keep up with skinning for vista and now w7. no lie. ***

and just recently a 1tb hardrive to accomodate xp and w7

 

i personally think my main driving passion is because ive always loved and excelled in art. (i have to thank my dad for that and passing his artistic abilities down to me) before i got into computers, you could always find me with a black chinagraph and a HUGE white drawing book. or sometimes with oils and brushes. and my art basically decorated my walls. xxxx