Precognition Spell

I would never use/reasearch a spell that only work 50% of the time. Why not just research a spell that did what you wanted and did it 100% guarenteed?

Well, for many preconnition stories, the result aren't always positive.  The 50%, 30%, 20% is just a way to simulate that.  You can adjust the % to 65,30, & 5; but I am not trying to balance an 'idea' anyway.

One of the fun part is, the resultant spell is usually way more powerful than what you can cast now, & is casted without you paying the cost.

 

slight change, have the random actions happen irrelivant of player actions, but use it to find out or change the next random event. Say automatically averting half the damage if you know it'll happen.

I can see this being used as an exploit to damage allies if done wrong though. (spam foresight/precog to get mass earthquakes)

Perhaps have a small number of random events and have small detection spells and higher level "doomsday warning" type spells that generate critical events (with a N turn (say 30) cooldown) Maybe have linked divination and alteration spells, with alteration being 5x more expensive.

(also, I agree that having a significant chance of a negative result would be unwise... except for a 'wild magic' race... which I'm hoping there'll be, for those of us that would enjoy playing that way.)

 

I like that -- finding out what the next global random event will be could be a pretty sweet bonus all by itself.

 

Maybe instead of reducing damage automatically, provide players with the ability to create structures and spells that defend against various random events ... but make them too troublesome to bother with most of the time, so it's much more "worth it" to build them only when you know that a random event is coming up.  Then the guy who casts precognition can build up defenses against the next random event.  "Earthquake, you say?  What a coincidence that I happen to have just reinforced all my city walls in that province against earthquakes..."  Plus, this could be fun with espionage.  If you notice that your opponent is busy building reinforced walls, you might want to copy his lead.  And on the other side, you might want to wait till the last possible moment to start building those walls, to force the opposition to rush build if they want to get them up in time.

Not sure if I like the Idea, but sure that I don't like 95% of possible implementations.

Here is an implementation which is acceptable. This, to me, is the only true way to prevent spamming, and for it to be a true risk and investment to cast the spell (even if there are good chances of an easy win). Its favored gambling, but spamming will lead to losses. You can increase the % of penalties if you wish. The point im trying to make is that Failed spells should primarily harm the CASTER!!! not the nation/environment. At least, for such a precognition spell. If its a Demon summoning spell, of course the demon could go rogue, but this is a mental task, which could result in the caster's mind melting/becoming damaged.

Precognition spell 20% detailed explanation of upcoming event (90% damage reduction/ no damage), 60% proper foresight (half-damage of next destructive event), 5% chance the caster loses all mana for 5 turns, 5% chance the caster loses 5 essence (or dies if has less than 5 essence, AKA the Sovereign).

Im sure we can make wizards/ect by imbuing essence into our followers. Whatever that essence amount is, is the amount the Sovereign would lose by mis-casting it in that 5% range. If a unit not-the sovereign casts it, the same amount of essence would be lost ... most likely killing the caster (or simply have it kill the caster if not the sovereign)

This Precognition would allow proper readiness for the devastation. Proper Foresight would give a good explantation of the event, but not about how it starts/exactly when. So the people would be ready, but only for its arrival. A Detailed Explanation would give exact time and location, as well as where the event takes place ... possibly what its started by/who starts it. If its a plague it will tell you where the virus comes from initially/who first gets infected ... and the source of that infection, in order to prevent it. Essentially a detailed explanation allows you to kill the devastation before it even happens. If its an earthquake, either move the structures that are under the most danger, or you could use magic to strengthen the land in someway ... although that could require powerful magics/ritual that only lasts a short amount of time, so in that case knowing the exact time and place the sovereign could take the steps required to strengthen the ground (make it more flexible, less rigid "rubbery rock") during the entire duration of the earthquake. If its a flood the sovereign could have a mass-evaporation ritual ready, ect.

Hm... I think some of you do not grasp what I've proposed.  lambdaman's Reply #4 seems a like subset of what I've said in my OP.   Let me make another example to try explaining.

After you have researched the Divination.MyCountry spell & Divination.Economic spell, you are now able to divine about MyCountry's Economy.   When you do this, there is 65% chance a powerful "Golden Age" spell will be casted to my country, 30% chance that a powerful "Poverty" spell will be casted instead.   Now, the game immediately tell you the precognition result.   It says that my country will be in Golden Age some time in future, great. 

Some turns later, you researched Divination.NonAlliedCountry.  You can then divine about your neigbouring country's economy, there is 65% chance Poverty will be casted to them, 30% chance they will get a free Golden Age, some time in future.   Since you know the result, you can plan ahead using your skill to maximize the benefit or minimize the harm.

In this example, Golden age or Poverty is some very powerful spell that you do not have the ability to research any time soon.  And assume there is only 1 beneficial spell, 1 harmful spell in the Divination.Economic.SpellList for the sake of this demonstration.

Rgds to Reply #4, it can be easily done with my OP suggestion, by implementing a precognition spell called Divination.GlobalEvents. 

In term of detection, maybe there should be spell called Preconition.AllaboutMe  to detect & lists all divination effects I'll be subjected to.

In term of countering a divination, there can be a spell call Divination.Economic.CounterAllEffect that have say 50% chance to prevent a divination from happening.  Once you have this spell researched, you can cast Divination.NonAlliedCountry.Economic.CounterAllEffect to try dispelling the free Golden Age they are expected to receive.

With the number of variations of these spells... at least 4 headings: divination, target, social area target, positive/negative... perhaps it would need a special interface. Otherwise even with just 2 targets, 4 areas and 2 outcomes you'd have a list of 16 spells. (if you had 5+ targets (self, ally, enemy, all, none) N areas (economic, military, weather, events, wild/random, romance...) and say 5+ outcomes (divine, improve, harm, remove fortune, change fortune, wild/random) you'd have a list of 25N spells (assuming N>6 you'd have 150+ spells... either way it needs a graphical interface)

So maybe have those features in a different format.

Cast the spell, once it's cast, choose the target, have a screen pop up with tarot cards representing different areas, areas you haven't researched being face down cards.
That way you could try influencing something major with more risk. Since you could turn over other cards, like the tower card, death, devil... ten of swords or something as added risky options (earthquake, population loss, unit charmed, unit damaged)

But if you waited for more research you could pick without the risk. Perhaps even have a card that either takes essence or allows you to spend essence on something really major (strength affected by the essence you're willing to spend).

I just like the idea of the divination interface using tarot cards... having some risk (if you choose it) and being easier to understand than "Divination.NonAlliedCountry.Economic.CounterAllEffect" which is bulky and feels more like pure code.

 

I'd like divination to be different for different people as well. Imagine a diviner soverign. Maybe they could pick twice with the tarot cards, therefore avoiding most negative cards... maybe a wild mage could only choose to have a wild effect and a wild result.
So select enemy *tarot cards for things you haven't got enough research about go face down* then select target, this case romance, select divine future.

You see a picture of two people kissing or a baby or an angry face... with a description below it depending on your skill. (number of turns away, size of effect, type of effect... eg. in 6 Turns, Child born, male, will be a powerful mage... vs Child born (for the unskilled/cheap divination)

 

Thoughts?

 

 

I understood it perfectly well.  I liked the suggestion that was made in a reply, that instead of randomly casting spells, divination should give you a heads-up on upcoming mega-events that would happen regardless.  I don't personally find the idea of being able to randomly cast spells by "divining" all that interesting.  Just from a suspension-of-diisbelief point of view: "oh, lots of random stuff is happening, someone must be divining the future".  Huh?

 

I guess that I don't really object to the mechanic, though, just the flavor.  If you want random spells, instead of calling it divination, maybe make it a spell where you summon a powerful spirit and command it to help you.  Sometimes it does ... sometimes it decides that your cities need to be set on fire for your impudence.

I suppose the only difference is what you call it, wild magic/divination. Maybe wild magic for creating events, divination only when you're finding out, or alteration for changing... they're just names... i still like the tarot interface idea. And the mega events being created or changed or anticipated, any or all.

I really like the idea of having a queue of mega-events generated at the beginning of the game and having the player be able to cast a spell to "divine" what the mega-event will be, with varying degrees of accuracy depending on their skill level. Natural events could be divined with little implementational difficulty. However, events that involve player or AI would be more difficult. You could randomly generate these types of events at the beginning of the game, but that would severely limit the complexity of those events. It would be preferable to have events that depend on the actions of the player throughout the game. For example, a split in a faction if the ruler becomes unpopular with a particular general. However, these events could not be divined. At least, not early enough to make a difference. It's an interesting problem, and I don't know how to solve it or if it is even solvable. Ideas?

Yes!  Tarot card as the UI is a great fit!!


Again awesome idea, yet I'll prefer something slightly different.   Once you have researched Divination.Economic tarot card, you have 65% chance to get beneficial effect, 30% harmful effect.   If you flip over the card without it being researched, you'll have 30% chance of beneficial, 65% harmful instead.



The Tarot cards probably will be arranged in 4 rows:
Divination Category:    Global Random Event, CounterAllDivEffects, DisplayAllDivEffects, Economic, Militrary, Natural Disaster, Romance, Diplomacy, Magic, etc
Divination Target: My Hero, My Sovereign, Other Hero, Other Sovereign, One fraction, One Alliance, One continent, the World, Fallens/Human fraction, etc
Divination Power: small, medium, huge, colossal
Divination Time frame: distance future, future, near future


I hope there is pre-game customization of what strength/weakness your Soverign will have.   And a Diviner Soverign must be one of it.    In most other games, you either have magician leader, or tech leader, or military leader.  Having a diviner Sovereign is an innovative way to play EWOM.


I really prefer that no matter how much research you put into divination, the result will always have a chance that goes wrong.  Make the result a bit fuzzy.  If you know your new child will be a powerful mage, the whole divination mechanism will just become an alternative way to cast spell.   I want divination results be more powerful than normal spells, yet it is chaotic & does not always do what you want.  It is use at your own risk kind of gameplay.

I hope you understand this system is not "randomly" cast spells.   You have quite a bit of control, but it's just that you can never be certain.


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Applying OP's mechanism to your powerful spirit example, you'll have some control on how the spirit behave, but you just never have 100% certainty on how it'll behave.

Forum corrupted again..

It sounds quite interesting. Divination as a kind of spell that is uncertain and draws powers to change future fate. But it should not be too easy or cheap to use.

So what about this:

You cast a power spell or complete a quest and the tarot minigame screen is shown. Depending on how you got there you have a certain amount of points that you can use to change the outcome. Like you could replace a card right after it has been played or swap it with another one already played. Or you tap a card to weaken it.

The first card is played which is the target. The second card is the time. And then up to three cards for the effect and its power (you choose when to stop).

The deck consists of different suits with each suit consisting of multiple cards with different value. One suit for each kind of the elements (including life and death) and one suit for each channeler in the game. In addition some unaligned cards with different meanings.

After you have played, depending on the final combination something will happen in the future. Not all such combinations have meaning though.

A cheaper spell might show you the final result of another player's tarot game.

An example of such a game and the result:

You start a tarot game with 6 points

Ace of fire is the target card dealt. Then 4 of water as the time card. You want something to happen soon so you tap the card which means it will behave like a 2 of water. The first effect card is 7 of your arch enemy. That might give your arch enemy's armies more fire power. Not good, better to swap this card with the target card, so your enemy is the target. 2 points used for that. Now the next card is 10 of Life. Not good either, fire and life is too likely positive for your enemy. You decide to replace that card with a new one for 3 points. You get the unaligned city card. So something strong and fiery awaits your enemy's cities soon. Sounds good so you stop at that point.

Any other ideas for how to work it and costs? I can almost see how AIAndy's version would work. But it feels a little hard to pick up. I do like the idea of a simple interface with elemental choices and the cards having life, death etc. built in, perhaps that would allow different and interesting twists in what you could divine. But it would need clear descriptions alongside each choice. Maybe if the choices you made were of obvious cards for target and realm... everything already mentioned. Then cards could be drawn, each card increasing power level by 1. So, draw 6 cards, it costs: 2 of fire, 3 of water, 9 of death, 10 of death, 9 of death, 4 of water... 2 fire mana, 7 water and 28 death... if you don't have the mana, you get a negative result based on the mana you lack (fire damage, storm, plague...)

I'm just trying to think of how to have an element of risk, without it all being chance... since this way smaller fortunes would be safer and the bigger the divination the bigger the risk.

Also, maybe you could choose your deck at the start
Choose Fire only and you have 10 fire mana, you can pull off a lv 1 spell, have 100 mana and you can safely pull off a huge spell lv 10, or risk something very large... not sure how the court cards would work, or where and how special cards should come into things.

I suppose it would make more sense if certain aspects of divination required certain mana types... trying to divine the weather with only death mana wouldn't make sense... nor would a romantic divination with earth mana - death for corrupting and life for promoting would make sense... or fire/air for something wild... thoughts?

I worry it may get too complicated. Or that low level spells would be too weak to be useful... I suppose you could have the level of the spell affect the strength of the positive slightly and decrease the chance and effect of the negative as well...

Any thoughts on scaling these spells with power? I wouldn't want someone to get two fire mana shards and instantly divine for armageddon. But I would like having more shards to mean something. Perhaps each shard controlled could allow you to select one (two or three) levels higher power? Perhaps the spell could have a base cost, cost for action and then the random drawn card component?

I would also prefer that this sort of spell predict random events destined to happen rather than generate random events.  One of the neat things that could come out of these type of spells "especially in multi-player" is that someone who specializes in them could then actually trade information of future events for diplomatic good will -"Say, I wouldn't expand in that direction unless you like hot ash".  You could also play a deceptive game by building up trust among other nations by giving then useful information and then manipulate their trust by giving out false information, or even falsely predicting random events and then causing them to happen "I warned you years ago that this massive forrest fire would happen and oh, let me just pick up these extra matches....."  Could could also just pretend to have spell that predict the future and given that your predictions are vauge enough ("trouble will appear in the East") you might be able to convince people that you have "the sight" (fake-seers have been doing this throughout history).  This of course clouds the believability and usefulness of the real seers with real useful information (don't listen to them - i hold the one true vision of the future).  All of this could lead to some real interesting conversation between turns.

Fate is a concept that is quite often used in fantasy novels in one way or another. Since divination is considered kind of passive, lets split the concept into fate and divination.

Fate can have a large number of different effects on people. With fate altering spells you can alter or generate those and with divination you can find out about fate which is already in place. And of course there are already quite some fates from random chance alone.

Try to fulfill the fates that are positive for you and avoid or alter the fates that are not. If a meager archer unit in your army is fated to kill a dragon around a certain time, then it would get a strong fate buff while fighting dragons in that time. But it is up to you to bring that archer unit in a position where its fate can be fulfilled. If an enemy divines that fate, he might avoid using a dragon or just kill all units that might possibly have that fat.

Since fate is always a bit obscure, a laid out tarot game is a good representation.

It's definately a nice idea to me... although I think the more details worked out or suggested, the better. Especially since however nice a feature, it would require a little interface work and some artwork. Not sure if the devs like it, or enough for that. (since without the art it'd look a little daunting as a list of conditional statements or choices).
I'm not sure how else to do it though... I suppose the bare bones could be a divination spell for minor and major critical events and a few fate buffs with (pseudo-) random effects. But it could add alot of immersion to have those unique features like playing with (elemental) tarot cards, being able to focus in changing the fate of the world and divining the future.

I always liked tactics ogre, (march of the black queen, knights of lodis...) and I liked the series of questions by a seer... I suppose you could have something like that as an alternative. With mana cost affecting the rank of question you could be asked, with your choice affecting what you get in return. e.g. spend 30 fire mana, Q: You awake to a fire burning through your palace, who do you save?
A. Your daughter B. Your son C. Your partner D. Your mother E. Yourself and no other F. I can't make that choice
with some obvious potential negatives : lose one of the above, palace burns down, or a potential reward - gain or improve one of the above, receive a blessing, change your fate
also the effects could be less obvious, and based on the answer to several questions - (makes it harder to judge what effect your answer will have)
spend 100 fire mana and unlock the question as an option:
Q: A forest fire engulfs your kingdom, what do you save?
A. The magicians guild B. The farms and fields C. Your palace D. Your subjects E. Let them burn F. I can't make that choice.
with perhaps much bigger losses and much bigger gains. Such as a powerful magician or artifact, a resource, a unique building, a boost to population growth empire wide or a power/essence/demon related benefit. With a chance for all non-selected options to burn down, loss of farms, some people and your palace... or any other fitting consequence.

Not saying it's better, it's just a system I liked... having questions with elemental and life/death responses could be interesting... even if it's just used as a method for selecting a wild summon or random event. If you get asked the question again you'd want to try other responses, it's hard to spot the best option if you have 5 to choose from and the effects aren't known.

To be honest I'd like multiple systems considered, or better yet implimented.

Thinking about it, it's alot like the event system, but I like the idea that you don't know if it's a real or metaphorical question being asked. Maybe you could be told each gamble, but perhaps this should just be classed as an event type. (I just liked the visual interface of tactics ogre for a string of questions)

Fate will be a great addition.  A very nice idea!  It's like "If X happens to this unit/entity, Y will happen, regardless of whether you divine it or not".

Referring to my reply #11, 2 tarot cards can be added in the Divination Category.

Whenever a new hero/sov/fration/alliance is created, a specific fate is randomly assigned from a pre-designed list.  The Fate.List will contains many entries like: No Fate, kill dragon named Smug in one strike, drastic lost of morale when fighting human fraction, increased possibility of civil war, increased chance of famine/flooding/other nataral disasters, increased chance to discover mithril, etc etc.