Cloud Computing - A great Holloween story

from JoeUser Forums

For those who don't know or have not heard of Cloud Computing (I just recently learned about it), basically it's the ability to use software and store data on the Internet, specific websites with software to do things you need done that require minimum or no software to be installed on the PC and also stores your files and other data on the same servers.

Personally I think Cloud Computing is a pretty cool idea. Convenient so that you don't have to be stuck on one specific computer to access information and software. One example of Cloud Computing that I use (and was not aware till recently) is Call of Duty World at War. Unlike previous versions of this PC game series, World at War allows you to create an account that links to the serial number of your game. Basically, as I found out a couple of weeks ago, if you ever find yourself needing to reinstall the game, you don't necessarily need to back up the profiles because once you reinstall it, the game recognizes the serial number and automatically brings your account up in the game. This information is stored on the game servers. (Downloaded content such as mods and new maps are a different story though, that you need to back up and move back to the proper folders. Leave it to me to be completely unaware of this stuff but it seems a lot of things are backed up in Cloud sites that I didn't know myself.

The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

The ability to access this information from just about any computer makes Cloud Computer very cool and convenient and this is Good. The Bad part is if you have no Internet, you are shit out of luck backing up or restoring. The Ugly? Well just read the title of this story that just happened this past week:

Microsoft loses Sidekick users' personal data

Contacts, calendar entries, photographs and other personal information of Sidekick users has almost certainly been lost for good following a service disruption at Sidekick provider Danger, the Microsoft subsidiary said on Saturday.

Now this definitely fulls under the category of tragedy. Many online techshows are calling this "one of the biggest disasters in the history of Cloud Computing", a definite blow to this concept. Talk about not taking your own advise, it would seem that during some kind of update, Microsoft may have forgotten (or thought was not necessary at the time) to make back ups of the Sidekick data they had stored and now the only data they have is what ever people with Sidekicks have on their phones. At this point they are asking people not to shutdown, restart or allow the power of the Sidekick phones to be drained to avoid using the information to be loss while they attempt to get as much of it back by syncing the phones back to the Cloud system. It's ironic that this horror story comes out in October, just a few weeks before Holloween. 21 Century horror movies would depict Jason Voorhees, Freddy Krugger and Mike Myers hacking peoples Facebook sites, bluetooth cellphones or spamming their emails.

So how reliable can Cloud Computing really be? In the end, while the concept is great, the technology is pretty solid and secure; there is still one fault in this concept. The human equation. Regardless of religion, we all agree that humans are not perfect and prone to making mistakes so, just as this story shows, even Microsoft can screw things up this bad.

Who will you trust more? Are you willing to spend some extra bucks to buy a lot of gigabytes of external storage? Will you pay the extra money to purchase that back up software one would think should come with cellphones? Will the data cables for your cellphone look to expensive anymore and will bluetooth adaptors sound like something worth spending extra money on now?

Time and again most tech shows and tech people will repeat the #1 rule of thumb when it comes to computers and electronic gadgets:

"Back Up Your Data"

And please, back ups are not files saved on a seperate drive. Back ups are when you have more than one copy. Some suggest to have at least 2 back ups apart from the original files themselves. I say Cloud Computing is still a good idea, but why not have a back up of your own as well. That way you have twice the protection and may cost you less in the long run. So back up people, back up your files, or you might end up like those with Sidekicks which are probably feeling like they got sideswiped or back-kicked right now.

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Reply #1 from WinCustomize Forums Top

"In the beginning..."

As the original went, folks got PC's so that they'd have control over the documents, accounting, etc. Maybe the time for that is passing, but I'd rather have the software and not have to depend on the web for that.

In my view, there's an analogy to the "migration" of production and jobs abroad. It has resulted in complete dependence on the "manufacturing" countries (of which we're not one). It has also resulted in the "migration" of our money offshore and decrease in it's value (not to mention our current 'happy' economic circumstances).

These web services will not be free. One will have to 'rent' applications. That might be cheaper in the long run, but for creative users, not all ideas come on a scheduled basis and if something's on a deadline and one can't access the online apps, for any one of a host of reasons, he/she will be S.O.L.

I'd therefore really like to have my apps and documents, etc. where I can access them when I need:

And please, back ups are not files saved on a seperate drive. back ups are when you have more than one copy. Some suggest to have at least 2 back ups apart from the original files themselves. I say Cloud Computer is still a good idea, but why not have a back up of your own as well. That way you have twice the protection and may cost you less in the long run. So back up people, back up your files, or you might end up like those with Sidekicks which are probably feeling like they got sideswiped or back-kicked right now.

This is excellent advice. But, how can you open the document if you don't have the app? Maybe there is some solution to that, but I'm not savvy enough about it to know what that is.

Thanks for the OP, ChuckCS!

 

Reply #2 from WinCustomize Forums Top

I agree Doc. B[]

Start11 - Customize the Start Menu and Taskbar in Windows 10/11.
Reply #3 from Stardock Forums Top

As the original went, folks got PC's so that they'd have control over the documents, accounting, etc. Maybe the time for that is passing, but I'd rather have the software and not have to depend on the web for that.

I agree and I actually have what you might consider a partial solution that can tackle both having the software in the PC (as oppose to Cloud Computing) and your question below.

But, how can you open the document if you don't have the app? Maybe there is some solution to that, but I'm not savvy enough about it to know what that is.

This may not be the end all, greatest solution, but it can come in handy. I love portable apps. I use the portableapps.com software on my WD 250 GB USB portable drive where I have a bunch of portable, free software for just about any situation (picture editing, document editing, screen capture, emails, portable web browser, video and mp3 player, etc); you name it I probably got a portable app for it. At least this can solve the "not having the proper software instaled in the PC" issue since you can take most of the programs you may need with you. Think of it as Cloud Computer" wherthe Cloud is inside your portable drive.

Reply #4 from Stardock Forums Top

Thanks to this portable software I am able to use several programs I am not allowed to install on my PC at work that actually help me do my work faster and better.

Reply #5 from WinCustomize Forums Top

I have that as well, but I still like control over what's on my computer....just as I don't wish to have certain apps which collect data on me, which I'm sure will happen as a matter of course with Cloud Computing.

Also, for every "Vault", there's a safe cracker who will open it.

Reply #6 from Stardock Forums Top

Also, for every "Vault", there's a safe cracker who will open it.

Necessity is the mother of all inventions and hacking and cracking is a thieves necessity.

Reply #7 from WinCustomize Forums Top

I don't wish to have certain apps which collect data on me, which I'm sure will happen as a matter of course with Cloud Computing.

Does happen, as a matter of course.... with Google. *_*

Cloud computing?  Bah, it's not a direction I like the sound of.... too much potential for snooping, identity/intellecdtual property theft... data loss fuck ups, like the MS/Sidekick one.

Nope, gimme PC/HDD based computing any day... with Acronis, a separate internal back-up HDD and an external back-up as well.

Reply #9 from Sins Forums Top

Thank god I went from Sidekick to the G1

Reply #10 from WinCustomize Forums Top

Cloud Computing even the name irritates me...

Yeah, much like virtual sex... except with that you at least end up with a 'solution' in hand. :w00t:

Reply #11 from Demigod Forums Top

With the rapidly expanding size of HDD hardware, I can't help but wonder if we really need "cloud computing" or whether it will only encourage us to horde more information and applications than we could possibly have use for.

Reply #12 from WinCustomize Forums Top

whether it will only encourage us to horde more information and applications than we could possibly have use for.

I try not to download anything I really don't need. No telling what you'll get with the app, nor if it'll cause problems with really important stuff on your computer.

 

Reply #13 from Stardock Forums Top

Cloud Computing is good for one thing, keeping stuff online that you don't really need on your computer at all times. But I would like to simply have stuff like music and movies in the Cloud, that way I can have my PC empty and only DL what I want at that moment. Beyond that I would rather have the software handy at all times and my non-media files.

Cloud computing? Bah, it's not a direction I like the sound of.... too much potential for snooping, identity/intellecdtual property theft... data loss fuck ups, like the MS/Sidekick one. Nope, gimme PC/HDD based computing any day... with Acronis, a separate internal back-up HDD and an external back-up as well.

What concerns me the most if that, as I said in may article, the biggest flaw here is we will always depend on people to maintain these servers and to take the proper steps to avoid what happened with the Sidekicks. But there will always be those who think certain steps are not necessary because what are the odds something bad will happen, which now they will have to look at Sidekick owners faces whe asking that question from now on.

Reply #14 from JoeUser Forums Top

With storage getting so cheap (<$100 for a terabytes) why would anyone want someone else to store their software? This would be the software makers wet dream though, they have been trying for years to get folks to subscribe to their applications, some more successful than others. I believe people are getting more comfortable in the reliability with their Internet connections, maybe the bad old days of spotty connectivity are still embedded in my brain. But, I believe there will still be instances where work will need to be done and one might not be able to connect.

Another problem is security. As others have mentioned the Sidekick fiasco. In the past 3 years I have received "free" credit alerts because a former employer and a financial institution have had data come up missing due to theft and or neglect. What if some malcontent pulls the plug or hacks the server? Do you just not work that day and hope your app/data will be available tomorrow? No it's just a scheme to shake more money from the consumers pocket. It might sound tempting to some, but I'm going to have to agree with most of those that commented so far, not my cup of tea.

Reply #15 from Stardock Forums Top

eh.. cloud can be very useful as part of your system.

I used it as a backup for my AIM contacts for years, I more recently use it for gmail, a few choice google docs (of no real value, but that I need to be able to perfectly synch in time... like my DnD character stuff). And I use it to synch my bookmarks between multiple computers.

If the gmail servers go out on me, then all the data is also available offline (I use the offline plugin).

For cloud computing to be a good idea it needs:

1. For the data to already be available to the service you work with (ex, gmail), or be "safe" to share (ex, my bookmarks; which are encrypted actually).

2. For the data to ALSO be stored offline

3. For there to be a legitimate use for the data being available to any computer via the internet.

 

Many applications fall into those categories. But most do not.

The notion the cloud computing will replace normal computing is a pipe dream... it will supplement it with new capabilities which are useful for specific applications.

Reply #16 from WinCustomize Forums Top

The notion the cloud computing will replace normal computing is a pipe dream.

The issue facing cloud computing devs/pioneers is distrust. People have an inherrent distrust of companies like MS and Google, so they will have an uphill battle to sell it.  Convincing users that it is safe will not be an easy task, particularly after the Sidekick debacle....

...and given Google's rep of gleaning everything it can on anyone it can from the internet, who is to say it will stop there?  Technically speaking, the 'cloud' is on the internet, and if Google considers the net fair game I have to question if it would draw the line at data stored on the 'cloud'... I think not.

Reply #17 from WinCustomize Forums Top

Well said starkers, I totally agree and in fact am one of those distrusting individuals.  I would not trust any Internet service to store my data at, ever.  Too many hackers out there that can destroy your life! 

Reply #18 from JoeUser Forums Top

starkers, what you said is entirely true, but has little to do with the quote.

The quote is refering to how companies and individuals say "the PC is dying, soon everyone will use thin client and all computation will be done in the cloud". I am saying that is a pipe dream, it will never happen. What will happen is that a certain amount of application that are more suitable for cloud computing will move to cloud, and others will remain on local pcs. because different applications have different suitability.

Well said starkers, I totally agree and in fact am one of those distrusting individuals.  I would not trust any Internet service to store my data at, ever.  Too many hackers out there that can destroy your life!

Take the gmail cloud for example... Google, being your email service provider, has complete access and records of all your emails (in fact they are required to, by law they must store records of all your emails); when you download said emails to your PC, you add another point of entery. A virus or other malicious code could have infected your computer and compromised your outlook or thunderbird copy. And even if not, you are keeping a copy offline AND a copy is kept online.

But having it totally on the cloud you are actually removing one more avenue of attack. Sure they could write a virus that infects chrome and intercepts your emails as chrome connects to gmail.com... And ofcourse, a person trying to read your emails will have an easier time of it if he can just sit on your PC and look through them (by having access to the storage files of thunderbird / outlook... note that they are not encrypted by default).

Now, giving google access to your yahoo email is another thing... that gives them extra information. It is important to control who has access to what information, and not trust any of those companies with your information.

To begin with, your email is not private. It is being spied on, by law. The sooner you understand that the better.

there have actually been convictions based on such info. for example, a man who reported his wife missing (she was never found) was convicted of murdering her, the ONLY evidence against him was that google recorded the searches "how to get away with killing my wife" "disposing of corpses", etc from their home IP.

Reply #19 from WinCustomize Forums Top

starkers, what you said is entirely true, but has little to do with the quote.

The quote is refering to how companies and individuals say "the PC is dying, soon everyone will use thin client and all computation will be done in the cloud". I am saying that is a pipe dream, it will never happen.

Ah, but it has everything to do with the quote... I guess it depends on one's interpretation/take on things.

While some applications may not be suited to cloud computing (graphics creation/editing, for example), I believe it will never replace the PC because many people will be loathe to place their trust in companies who are known to pry, snoop, collect data for their own purposes. And then there's the difficulty of trusting something that is intangible and in the control of others, particularly with regard to important/sensitive information.

At least on a PC everything is tangible, accessible and instantly available, so in the event of something going wrong the user has the opportunity, with prepared backups, to restore functionality and data... without having to depend on an uncontactable 'cloud tech' somewhere off in the distance... or an internet connection that may be flaky, choked and overly busy, or even down altogether.

PC's are not perfect and things can go wrong, but still, I'd rather have something 'hands on' and take my own chances... a sentiment I think I share with many others.  And why not, the large corporations have done little or nothing to earn our trust and respect.

Now, giving google access to your yahoo email is another thing... that gives them extra information. It is important to control who has access to what information, and not trust any of those companies with your information.

To begin with, your email is not private. It is being spied on, by law. The sooner you understand that the better.

I never use google.mail or yahoo.mail... I don't trust either of them.  I use hotmail for newsletters, emails from companies and casual stuff, and my ISP's email service for friends, family and trusted sources, but for the most part I speak in person or use the phone... sometimes snail mail if material items need to be exchanged/forwarded over a distance.

Again, it comes back to being able trust in intangible 'cloud' technology... I find that difficult, particularly when it is run by companies that make their money from advertising.  It may have its uses (though somewhat limited from my perspective... I never ever use any of Google's or Yahoo's online apps), but I'd never depend on it for anything important.

 

Reply #20 from JoeUser Forums Top

that "you" btw was a general you. I figured you (starkers) realized that it isn't not private :). I should have said "the sooner people realize that the better".

Good for you for being so proactive with your security.

I use it, I just consider it public info... that is, everything I email I do so with expectation that it is not private. If I have something private to say, I don't do so over the email.

Reply #21 from WinCustomize Forums Top

that "you" btw was a general you. I figured you (starkers) realized that it isn't not private . I should have said "the sooner people realize that the better".

Not a problem, I got the 'general' drift. :)

Good for you for being so proactive with your security.

It was a case of learning the hard way in my early days of computing/being on the internet... I was pretty naive and got a few nasties... some from clicking on 'sponsored' links attached to emails.  These days I avoid anything that looks even remotely suspicious; anything connected to advertising (Google); email services that seem to allow a hell of a lot of spam through... yahoo mail in particular.  Don't know what it's like these days (lost all trust in it), but back when I did use it there was oodles of spam getting through, often with dangerous attachments/links.

I use it, I just consider it public info... that is, everything I email I do so with expectation that it is not private. If I have something private to say, I don't do so over the email.

I adopted the 'say it in person' approach when I realised that the targetted ads were based on things I or my contact had said,  It proved to me that my/our emails were being pried into... that nothing is confidential when companies like Google and Yahoo are involved.  Despite several people trying to convince me that they're not that bad, and to give them another go, I trust neither and will stick to Hotmail, which has given me no grief or reason to change.

Thing is, with CCTV and all the other electronic surveillance/snooping these days, you pretty near gotta go out in the middle of the desert to have a truly private conversation...

and even then you have to check the nearby cactii for cameras and listening devices to be sure*_* ;) :-"

Reply #22 from JoeUser Forums Top

heh... I recently got an email that said "hi tal, remember we are meeting in room 1.117 this saturday at 3 pm for D&D". It was in gmail...

I noticed a thing on the right where google suggested to quick add it with a single click to my calendar... I did, it got the info right when auto creating the appointment... just from analyzing the sentence. (although, when it tried to translate a joke in hebrew my mom sent me from hebrew to english it really bungled it up... but the joke was not gramatically correct to begin with...)

Also, practically no spam (one about one letter per year) gets by the google's spam filter... My spam folder is full (and is always auto emptied)... but I don't get real mail caught incorrectly, and I don't get spam mail.

Curiously... do you think google auto notifies the police if someone makes a calender entry such as "muder my neighbor" or some such?

Reply #23 from JoeUser Forums Top

I have never liked the idea of "cloud computing" and probably never will. I know how to back up my data and don't want to rely upon some unknown server to protect my data for me.

Too "Big Brother" to suit me. I don't want or need my personal and financial data out here on some server somewhere. I am a huge fan of encryption.

Reply #24 from WinCustomize Forums Top

Curiously... do you think google auto notifies the police if someone makes a calender entry such as "muder my neighbor" or some such?

Not too sure on that one... probably.  However, the "meet with police chief's wife for afternoon of wild sex" diary entry might get passed on post haste.

:-"

Reply #25 from WinCustomize Forums Top

Don't know if you watch Hungry Beast Starkers, this was on last Wednesday ;)

Hands up if you look forward to Google's OS!!!!!

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