Single win strategy with locks

Ironically, I've noticed that many people flag lock far too early and far too often.  This under itemizes them for a temporary warscore lead, which my team then completely negates once we start flag locking/tele ganking 5 minutes later.

Sarmis is right on the money. Gold is too valuable early game to be spent on needless locks.

yep.  I see no point in caplocking anything except gold / portal flags.  It can be kinda funny to caplock a flag when 2 ppl come into the fort flag lane while you're solo in it and make their efforts worthless.. but unless you think it's going to get you a kill, it's pretty worthless imo.

Early on I only buy a lock when I have a bit of extra cash after I shop - and then it's a tossup whether or not it's a lock or a port.  At which point, if I do have a lock, I would use it when solo at the fort flag and 2 opponents showed up.  Ideally, I do that, kill the next creep wave, and then go shop, and return when the flag lock is about to drop.  Either it's a 1v1 or less and I saved that flag (since I am now more itemized then my opponent and at full health/mana) - or they left two DG just sitting there, just as good.  If they push up on the tower beyond the capped flag lock, thats a habit I want to reinforce in them. (or, if my teammates have tele scrolls already, punish immediately).  That, IMO, is better then an extra 250g sitting in your inventory until you go back to the shop - since good players go back so rarely.  Locking the middle flag that early is a complete LOL. 

Watch this replay...  http://www.gamereplays.org/demigod/replays.php?game=51&tab=upcoming&show=download&&id=96831

I'd say this is rather early and all the time.

In the game above there are several reasons we lost...

1. Revealer, who usually plays a pretty awesome Fire TB or Mine&Snipe Regulus tried a new health stacking build on Regulus which turned out to be rather useless. :/
   
2. We were PuG (although I play a lot with Revealer) against a nicely coordinated team.
   
3. Since they were experienced, they used the "strongest" Demigods, as every competitive team does.
   
4. I did not skill Ground Spikes and skilled Entourage instead, which is kinda useless when Catapults and Giants enter the game so early.
5. Last but not least: Flag Locks which were extremely useful against our team, as we only had 1 interrupt/stun (Foul Grasp), whereas the enemy team had 3 stuns/interrupts.

I think I foresaw this months ago.  And I agree, something could probably be changed for the better.  One idea I had was if the flag lock was targetable and had a few thousand health to burn through, then it would break.  Increases in price might work too, at least delaying the onset of locks.

Cap locks are always a good idea if you are going to lose a flag. 2v1 for example. If there smart they will ditch the lane. if there not. there standing there 2 manning a lane while i defend a tower with ease.

Half the xp and not even having the flag should allow complete map dominance for my 2 teamates. If 1 leaves. I push back the single one, and hte lane is mine again.

Overuse yes, I see alot of people just spamming them even when there is no enemy there to take the flag. BUT if you are going to lose the flag if you dont lock it. it is never a bad idea. Just dont spam the shit just because.

I agree there where other factors here, but if you check their items, you see that they have very little equipment until giants are out, because everything is spent on locks/portals/pots.

The thing is, once you have a lead in warscore there is no comeback for the other team if you manage to lock the flags all the time with all players. That's really all you have to do then.

^^^^^ this

never lost a game where the other team tried to keep everything cap locked. or at least tried to keep two of the three flags locked. its a huge drain on your cash flow. also if the other team has say; wand of speed by the time your cap lock goes off the ub/ere/anything with slow will be on your ass. now vs ub you can lock the flag before he gets to you however, you'll have to see him coming further away from your normal vision to be able to escape.

oak can pen your flag lock and can get in range fast enough to make sure it goes off. ere can't interupt it but can snare and do plently of dmg before hand.

long story short i've yet to see prema locking be used very effectively. its annoying but, i've never seen any games won with it.

(that being said it could be that i've never played anyone who is good enough to use them effectively and decides that perma locking is what they want to do.)

6. you used qot.

if its 2v1 and you stay a second to lock that flag your dead. i think i've proven that quite a few times

depends on how fast you are, who's coming after you, how soon you spot them, ...

imo you can easily lock a flag 1v2 and get away with it, unless you're on the wrong side of the flag, low on hp, ...

Posting a game where you did that with a premade and won, against a PUG with a QoT and Reg?  Thats your arguement?  You played a premade against a pug, first off.  Second off, a pug with a Qot and a Reg - the two weakest DG in any kind of competetive game.  Anecdotal evidence is never good, but at least get try to get better anecdotal evidence.  Note that they are the weakest DG in part due to the complete and utter lack of interrupts or stuns.  Try gettign that flag lock off every time against a sedna with silence and pounce, an oak that isn't stupid with his penitence, or a frost TB.  And then bam, you've lost the flag.  And are under itemized.  So anytime you try to get that flag back, they kick your ass. Suddenly the warscore game goes the other way.  Basically, don't bother flag locking until you can afford to carry ports around with you - then if someone trys to get that flag back, you port in and blow them off of it. if all three of them come to take it, the person in that lane drops a lock on it, and then falls back.  If they stay for the lock to drop, everyone ports in and again, you lose since you are underitemized.   What flag locks are really for is to drop one and then retreat past it - if someone chases you, bam tele gank.  Or portals and gold mine flags, which are close enough to their crystal for the itemization to not matter.  Or for shopping trips.  And, after a certain point in the game on cata, the xp flag in the middle. 

High end games degrade into capture lock fests. Period.

Yes.  The point, however, is that they don't get that way until after a certain period of time.  It's a mistake to lock early, almost all of the time.

You've obviously never seen CosMoe with QoT >>

Its quite scary

No its not. Not on maps like Zikurat where towers in the middle are being pushed.

Note the use of the words "Almost all the time".  There are exceptions, of course - just like sometimes it makes sense to use Heavens Wrath.  It doesn't change that Heavens wrath is a mistake, almost all of the time. 

In 5v5 games (I imagine I've played more than more 5v5s than anyone on this forum, which is sad because they're the best) though the entire game changes. You have more money than in 3v3 maps. Its a matter of format really.

Yes, but most competetive games are 3v3.  In a non competetive game, good players can do ANYTHING and win.  Flag locking ina 5v5 is ENTIRELY different then the default 3v3, which is what people assume when you are talking upper level strats.  When you have 4 nuetral flags and 10 DG, it's a lot different from 6 DG and 3 nuetral flags + 2 gold mines that aren't tower protected.

All goes back to Demigod's connectivity stuff. I really like 5v5s the best. 3v3s are kind of dull when you play a ton of 5v5s. I don't have the same enthusiasm for 3v3s that I do for 5v5s. 3v3s just are not as fun.

Oh well. The game changes significantly depending on the size.

I haven't spent much time on 4v4's, and never bother with 5v5.  Too many people drop.  If there is a 10% chance a given player will drop, a 3v3 will finish with the full number of players 54% of the time, vs only 34% for a 5v5.  Over half the time sounds a lot better then barely a third.

Um. I get your point, but your math is wonky. My internet handled 5 of us on a LAN against other people online with lag only coming from other people.

If there is a 10% chance a player will drop in a 3v3, you will play 9 games and on the 10th game someone will drop.

If there is a 10% chance a player will drop in a 5v5, you will again play 9 games and on the 10th someone will drop.

That is, unless you're saying each player has a 10% chance to drop. We can just blame it on the silly peer to peer.

Even so, these are stupid numbers =P

Price increase prevents early flag lock usage. It reduces it late game aswell (quality > quantity). The cooldown being longer then the locking prevents constant relocking of portal flags in the endgame. This decides so many games. I do this like all the time, relocking right after cooldown. Usual if they dont engage 2vs1, it cant be stopped, because the creeps are on your side. And 2vs1 leaves only 1 dg for the other side and mid, which is essentialy suicide.