Mystikmind Mystikmind

(DA) A dismal failure yesterday!

(DA) A dismal failure yesterday!

I had a new strategy that was a dismal failure! lol

 

Prelude events:

What happened rite, i usually always play Terran, so recently i decided to give Arcean a go and discovered that the Terran super ability truely is SUPER! Why? No one would trade techs with me (except very low level ones with me throwing everything i have at them!). I managed to struggle on in that game tho, and managed to get Diplomatic translators and the galactic bazar - not that it seemed to make much difference! Meanwhile the AI had taken ALL my extreme planets, since there was no way in hell they would trade any of those techs with me - i think that is pretty stupid, you want to have 'some' chance of getting extreme worlds, but apparantly not, not unless i play Terran thats for sure!!. Anyway, despite all that, i managed to continue doing well in that game untill i got the out of memory error, then i hate redooing stuff i already just did, so i started a new game instead.

 

The dismal failure:

So because the AI won't trade techs with me when i'm Arcean, i thought i should set tech trading to off! Started a new game the same as before. It soon became apparant that i'm falling seriously behind in technology, so what i did was, instead of letting the AI take all my extreme worlds again, i blockaded the planets with tiny hulled ships. That worked, but shortly thereafter the Drengin declared war on me and came down with fleets rating 28 missile attack while my fleets rated just 5 attack!! So i soon realised i have no way of stopping them and they will eventually breach my blockades of extreme worlds so all that effort was for nothing!!! Had no option but to quit.

 

Conclusion: in my first attempt at playing Arcean, i set up military starbases instead of blockading extreme planets, that was the key difference in strategy that made the first game work - since no one even bothered declaring war on me due to military starbases boosting my strength rating! The second difference is that even with the hopeless trading capacity, it seems that having tech trading turned on, somehow puts my race much further ahead compared to when tech trading is switched off???

 

Result: I reloaded the orriginal Arcean game and have continued that one instead!

18,855 views 47 replies
Reply #26 Top

One other thing, if you play a race but do not really integrate its mega-ability into your grand strategy, try turning off mega-ability entirely.  If nothing else, it will extend the Colony Rush period some, as the two races which start with certain extreme colonization techs will not get them.

Reply #27 Top

Quoting LegacyCWAL, reply 25

Quoting Mystikmind, reply 19I think tech trading is pretty important to any strategy i use, because at the difficulty level i play at with at least 1 race set to Godlike and the others on Genious, the AI will streak ahead in leaps and bounds. When i get the research rate reports, i'm typically reported to be doing 3 - 5 percent of all the research occuring, even with several planets with research levels up into the thousands!! The AI is a reseach MONSTER on higher difficulty levels. And when i play as Terran, i am usually trading AI techs that are so advanced that in comparison, it makes my own research look like a microbe on a flea, on a dog in a car riding a ferry!

People manage to beat the game on the highest difficulty levels without using Terrans, so there are other ways of doing it.

Like LTJim said, you have to play to your race's strengths.  Your problem was that you were playing to the Terrans' strengths despite the fact that you were using the Arceans.  Arceans are much better fighters than the Terrans, but you seem to have been trying to play as a diplomat instead of a Super Warrior.  If that's how you play, then that's how you play.  Just don't blame the system when you ignore the tools you have and instead try to use tools that you don't.

 

Sounds reasonable, but no, as i already explained, you will need that little thing called 'technology' no matter what strategy you use. Since Terrans are the only race that can get technology from the AI in any kind of remotely workable way, this puts them with a serious universal advantage over other races. The Arcean super ability is nothing, and is useless and can not be applied in any way shape or form if you don't have any competent weapons technology. Notice how that sentance ended with the word 'technology'? There are strategies to make Arceans win, i do realise that, but their super ability is hardly a significant part of it.... until after you have already taken half the planets around the place and managed to steal some competant weapons techs!

Reply #28 Top

Quoting LTjim, reply 26
One other thing, if you play a race but do not really integrate its mega-ability into your grand strategy, try turning off mega-ability entirely.  If nothing else, it will extend the Colony Rush period some, as the two races which start with certain extreme colonization techs will not get them.

 

Then i may as well stick with Terrans and leave mega abilities on! Because the Terran mega ability is not playing any part in the game at all except to silently help correct the massive rediculous AI trade imballance. Also at higher difficulty levels the AI will be taking extreme planets right on the heels of the first colony rush... with almost no break at all! (even with mega abilities off).

Reply #29 Top

I did not say there would be a discrete break in the Colony Rush phases as there is at lower AI settings.  The Rush will, though, last a bit longer.

If you think the Terran mega-ability does not help you, try a game with mega-ability off.

Reply #30 Top

Quoting Mystikmind, reply 27
Sounds reasonable, but no, as i already explained, you will need that little thing called 'technology' no matter what strategy you use. Since Terrans are the only race that can get technology from the AI in any kind of remotely workable way, this puts them with a serious universal advantage over other races. The Arcean super ability is nothing, and is useless and can not be applied in any way shape or form if you don't have any competent weapons technology. Notice how that sentance ended with the word 'technology'? There are strategies to make Arceans win, i do realise that, but their super ability is hardly a significant part of it.... until after you have already taken half the planets around the place and managed to steal some competant weapons techs!

If the Terrans are at such a huge universal advantage over everybody, nobody would use anybody else on the highest difficulty levels.  Yet they do use other races and other super-abilities.  So while Terrans have a huge universal advantage for you, they don't have a huge universal advantage for everybody.

That's just how the universe works.  Super Diplomat matches your skills, talents, and tendencies better than the other super abilities, and as such, you are not able to leverage the others as well as you can Super Diplomat.  Other players may not be able to do much with Super Diplomat, but are able to leverage abilities like Super Breeder or Super Hiver in ways that keep them from needing tech trading so badly in the first place.  Maybe their economy is so strong that they have less of a tech disadvantage to need to make up, or maybe they expand quickly enough that they can produce enough ships to overcome a tech disadvantage with sheer numbers, or maybe they just attack so early that the AI hasn't built a huge gap yet.  But while you are looking only at what you lost, you are refusing to look at what the other super abilities gain.

 

tl;dr version:

Just because Super Diplomat is so much stronger for you doesn't mean that it's so much stronger for everybody.

Reply #31 Top

Similar to the post by LegacyCWAL, I have had success with Altairians, no mega-ability, technologists.

I research down the diplo track fast, and then the influence track, making sure to get those trade goodies.  I keep track of the Colony Rush going on, and (well before its over) make sure to get and keep every AI in at least one war and generally two.  For the most threatening AIs, I even keep them in three, and I've gone as high as seven!  Meanwhile, I score Eco and Research treaties with every Minor AI, making sure to include Trade in each deal.  Because the Major AIs will generally leave the Minors alone if the Majors are in multple wars, those treaties are quite rewarding!

As wars rage all around my oasis of peace, I fill up my planets and check what weapons and defenses are being used, find a race (often a Minor) that has made a decent start down the tracks I decide that I want, make deals, then leap-frog them down those hardware tracks, etc, etc, etc.

Reply #32 Top

I usually play on suicide using a custom super breeder with tech trading turned off, and use the all factories strategy.  I have never built a Military Starbase and have long since given up on Economic Starbases; plus I don't use the Spin Control Center.  Early in the game you will far being given the AIs huge bonuses.  The way to level the playing field is the keep the AIs fighting each other and claim those galactic resources each time an AI at war frees up one.  Those bonuses will help you stay in the game with the AI.  You can develop your planets much better than any AI can and eventually be in a position to start attacking the AIs and grow your empire.  You can also make much better use of your fleets then the AI, choosing to hit him where he is weak.

In the original DL I found the first strike advantage to be to power and lobbied on the forums to have it removed.  A human could use it to easily crush the AI.  Back then engines were smaller and cheaper so human players built fast ships that could fly circles around the AI and ensure the human always had the first strike advantage.  In ToA the Aceans lack the speed to make best use of their first strike advantage.  I have played a custom super warrior on suicide successfully.

I also play on medium maps as they are much more challenging than small or large maps.  On tiny/small maps you can rush the AI.  On large/huge/gigantic/immense maps the colonization rush lasts much longer.  This causes the AI to cripple their economy rush buying to develop their many worlds with small populations while I develop my fewer quality planets.  The larger maps also give you more time to development your planets and research weapons/defenses before the first AI declares war on you.

Reply #33 Top

Thanks for further strategic advice all....

 

Just now i decided to try Arcean again. Now i did one unusual thing - i set a gigantic map with rare stars but abundant planets. Drengin set to godlike, Korath set to increadible, others on Genious.

 

Then i dunno if it was luck or a result of my setting rare stars but my start colony got a 700 factory bonus followed by a 700 science bonus and a 300 factory bonus on my third planet, followed by a planet of quality 20 with another 700 manufacturing bonus!! Stunned by this series of events which i have never before come close to seeing, i just had to come here and tell all!

 

Anyway, if i cannot make this Arcean game work, i will definately have to eat my hat! (unless some error spawned massive bonuses to the AI as well?).

Reply #34 Top

Such bonus tiles are more common with increasing map size and increasing number of planets. And I believe additionally luck also plays a role.

Just don't run into debt, that's often the biggest challenge with such bonus tiles...

Reply #35 Top

Intersting thread. lots of strategy advice. Inspires me to play another game.

Reply #36 Top

Mascrinthus -

Yes, Suicidal, I should have said that, too.  I have been able to beat it with simple brute force on lower difficulties.  Can one add a mega-ability to a custom race?  If so, does it require going into the files?  I'd like to try a custom race, but the absence of a mega-ability has been offputting.  I might try it again, if it does not require non-pc-literate moi playing with files.

Reply #37 Top

Quoting Noctilucus, reply 34
Such bonus tiles are more common with increasing map size and increasing number of planets. And I believe additionally luck also plays a role.

Just don't run into debt, that's often the biggest challenge with such bonus tiles...

Actually, it is linked to map size and decreasing planet count. The number of bonus tiles is pretty constant for any given map size, they are just being distributed over fewer planets.

And yes, you can have super abilities on custom races without tampering with the files. It can be set on the same screen as ability points during game set-up..

Reply #38 Top

Willythemailboy -

I thought the bonus tile count behaved as you said, but was not sure enough to comment.  And, if I can get the mega-ability thing straight, I just may try the custom route again this weekend!

Reply #39 Top

Quoting LTjim, reply 36
Mascrinthus -

Yes, Suicidal, I should have said that, too.  I have been able to beat it with simple brute force on lower difficulties.  Can one add a mega-ability to a custom race?  If so, does it require going into the files?  I'd like to try a custom race, but the absence of a mega-ability has been offputting.  I might try it again, if it does not require non-pc-literate moi playing with files.

Yes, you can use a super-ability, and no, it doesn't require going into the files.  It's on one of the tabs in the race-customizing screen.

I typically use a custom race, in fact, and bounce around between Super Breeder, Super Hiver, and Super Annihilator, depending on my mood.

 

Edit: Oh great, NOW I see that it's already been answered :blush:

Reply #40 Top

Quoting WIllythemailboy, reply 37

Actually, it is linked to map size and decreasing planet count. The number of bonus tiles is pretty constant for any given map size, they are just being distributed over fewer planets.

 

Yea i was thinking because it is a gigantic map but with rare stars, it must mean there are allot more bonus tiles to go round. Also i noticed i was getting a few bonus tiles on extreme planets, which i have never seen before!

 

Yea, I was not prepared for getting bonus tiles on my extreme planets, I usually choose my science capital after i have colonised all normal worlds, and extreme worlds never have anything, so i don't usually give them any consideration at all. So i had already chosen my scientific capital and it was more than half finished when i colonized an extreme planet (quality 18) with two 300 science bonuses! The other planet which had the 700 science bonus was way too small to be a capital, it had only five available tiles!. So i changed my capital location.

 

Now even with all those bonuses i mentioned in my previous post, the first time round with that map, the AI trumped me again, and flogged all my extreme worlds and would not trade extreme techs with me at all. I had set Arcean up with five diplomatic ability points, the rest on weapons, luck and any leftover would go on morale. But also i used the war party government, because I wanted to boost weapons as much as possible, since weapons goes well with the Arcean super ability, but defences and hitpoints are not so relevant.

 

So after loosing ALL my extreme planets to the AI, i decided to rerun from the start again, this time taking note of the best planets to colonise first. This gave me just enough of a boost, to just manage to get into extreme techs just by the skin of my teeth! only ended up loosing two extreme worlds, so a very good result. Amazing how much impact a small change in starting out efficiency can have on the game!

Reply #41 Top

The AI will sell low-population planets pretty cheap, although you will be paying more as the Arceans than the Terrans. Don't bother trying to buy the techs, buy the freshly colonized planets themselves! Even if you don't have any of the tech, you can still build population, rush buy, get credits, and research with those planets. IIRC focused output from your research output is also unaffected.

Reply #42 Top

Quoting WIllythemailboy, reply 41
The AI will sell low-population planets pretty cheap, although you will be paying more as the Arceans than the Terrans. Don't bother trying to buy the techs, buy the freshly colonized planets themselves! Even if you don't have any of the tech, you can still build population, rush buy, get credits, and research with those planets. IIRC focused output from your research output is also unaffected.

 

Interesting Idea, but i remember from earlier versions of the game that the AI will not sell planets, so i havn't bothered trying it yet?

 

You might be on to something there because the other day i got sucked in big time with the extreme techs when i finally managed to research one expecting that it will help me trade for another, but no, the AI gave it zero value! Which it often does, including the final stage extreme techs!! This is an increadibly dumb idea, and the logic that they might not need it dousn't cut it since the AI will happily pay full price for weapons weaker than ones they already have of the same tech!

Reply #43 Top

They won't give you anything for extreme techs they can't get any use out of.  So if you want to trade them away, make sure it's early enough in the extreme-planet phase of the colony rush that there's still plenty of decent ones to go after.

Reply #44 Top

Quoting LegacyCWAL, reply 43
They won't give you anything for extreme techs they can't get any use out of.  So if you want to trade them away, make sure it's early enough in the extreme-planet phase of the colony rush that there's still plenty of decent ones to go after.

That's not entirely true. In my experience anyway, the AI will NEVER pay for toxic or barren tech, of either level. Other techs depend on how many planets of that particular type are still uncolonized and in range of the AI, or in the case of the second level techs, how many of that type they have or could get.

Reply #45 Top

Quoting WIllythemailboy, reply 44

Quoting LegacyCWAL, reply 43They won't give you anything for extreme techs they can't get any use out of.  So if you want to trade them away, make sure it's early enough in the extreme-planet phase of the colony rush that there's still plenty of decent ones to go after.

That's not entirely true. In my experience anyway, the AI will NEVER pay for toxic or barren tech, of either level. Other techs depend on how many planets of that particular type are still uncolonized and in range of the AI, or in the case of the second level techs, how many of that type they have or could get.

 

Yep, and they WILL always pay for aquatic world colonisation, even when there are no aquatic planets left! It looks like the devs tried to incorporate 'need' with the extreme techs, but only had enough time to do it half assed.

Reply #47 Top

Quoting Mystikmind, reply 42

Interesting Idea, but i remember from earlier versions of the game that the AI will not sell planets, so i havn't bothered trying it yet?

I can't remember anymore how it was in DL or DA, but in TA you can definitely buy planets off the AI. However you have to do it early, when the population is still very low; if you wait too long they will start saying that the planet is essential for their culture.

The prices for planets can be steep though, you might need to throw in some techs because often you won't have enough cash to get a deal.