Elemental: Max number of players = infinite

from JoeUser Forums

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In Galactic Civilizations, we had minor races which players had relatively little control over their existence.  In Elemental, 32 players will be the maximum number of major factions that the game will start out with but that doesn’t take into account of minor factions and vassals.

In Elemental, one of your abilities will be the governing ability. The more cities under you control, the more overhead cost there is to run your ever growing kingdom. At some point, it may become advisable to turn some cities into vassals. A vassal state is a city (or group of cities) that is originally founded by the player but has been made independent by that player. It becomes its own independent faction controlled by the AI. Initially, as a vassal, it is allied to you. But being independent, all bets are off of what happens in the future. It may join up with someone else, combine up with other vassals to form a new kingdom, or even go on its own to try to become a major faction in its own right through a path of conquest.

One could picture a large game where there might be dozens of vassals who form ever changing alliances throughout the game. [more]

151,089 views 79 replies
Reply #1 from Elemental Forums Top

This is incredibly amazing. I was actually writing up a post suggesting the very idea of being able to turn your cities into independent vassals. Frogboy, from the bottom of my gamer's heart, THANK YOU FOR MAKING ELEMENTAL SO FREAKING AWESOME.  

Reply #2 from Elemental Forums Top

Pfft, do they get a channeler? Like one of your hedgewizard kids or will I be able to keep them in line by having my pet dragon fly over ocasionally to remind them who's boss? :D

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Reply #3 from Elemental Forums Top

Wow, that is freak'n awesome! Can the beta start now? ;)

Reply #4 from Elemental Forums Top

It just keeps getting better and better.

Will it be possible for vassals to band together, or become independent? Or will they forever be dependent on a bigger player?

 

Reply #5 from Elemental Forums Top

Ooh, I'm considering the possibilities here, make each vassal a single city, effectively creating city states or make them a bit larger so they're more able to defend themselves against agression (say, an eastern neighbor you don't feel like dealing with) but risk them winning the war and becoming a new threat? Awesome!

Reply #6 from Elemental Forums Top

How much controll will you maintain over your vassals, and how hard would it be to "un"-vassal one?

This kinda reminds me of the RevolutionDMC mod for Civ4. Where due to all kinds of reasons small minor-civs would pop up, and you'd end up with (on a large map) about 80 civs (and 5 minute computations between turns).

Oooow, and nations falling apart during an inheritence war, factions splitting off as minor players.

Reply #7 from Stardock Forums Top

Bear in mind, Beta 1 won't have these features. Beta 1 is primitive. :)

Reply #8 from Elemental Forums Top



In Galactic Civilizations, we had minor races which players had relatively little control over their existence.  In Elemental, 32 players will be the maximum number of major factions that the game will start out with but that doesn’t take into account of minor factions and vassals.

In Elemental, one of your abilities will be the governing ability. The more cities under you control, the more overhead cost there is to run your ever growing kingdom. At some point, it may become advisable to turn some cities into vassals. A vassal state is a city (or group of cities) that is originally founded by the player but has been made independent by that player. It becomes its own independent faction controlled by the AI. Initially, as a vassal, it is allied to you. But being independent, all bets are off of what happens in the future. It may join up with someone else, combine up with other vassals to form a new kingdom, or even go on its own to try to become a major faction in its own right through a path of conquest.

One could picture a large game where there might be dozens of vassals who form ever changing alliances throughout the game. 

There's your answer right there Wieke!

Good stuff man. Research always pays off :p.

Reply #9 from Elemental Forums Top

Doh, in all the exitement i forgot to read it properly.

Quoting Istari, reply 7
Bear in mind, Beta 1 won't have these features. Beta 1 is primitive.

Well it wouldn't be a beta if the game was all polished, bug-free and finished.

Reply #10 from Elemental Forums Top


I make a Spot check. Do I see anything?

 

 

(On topic: awesome news!! I hated those small civs whose only purpose was to give you a nice planet and maybe some techs prior the conquering.)

Reply #11 from Elemental Forums Top

So does this mean we could, theoretically, keep playing after we've won the game, make new factions, and basically just keep the same game going for infinity?

Reply #12 from Elemental Forums Top

Morslok, you'd probably have to split up your empire right before you win in order for that to work. 

Reply #13 from Elemental Forums Top

Me.  Want.  Now.

Reply #14 from Elemental Forums Top

I can easily see this feature taking a lions share of beta to iron out.   I do hope this feature gets put in easily and is easy to understand but I can see this getting really complicated really fast.  But I shall hope for the best. 

Reply #15 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting SavageBananaMan34, reply 12
Morslok, you'd probably have to split up your empire right before you win in order for that to work. 

I was thinking more something like in Sins after you win you get a prompt with an option to keep playing even though all the enemies are defeated.  Then you could make new factions from your cities and keep the game going even though you already won. That way you could keep playing the same game for as long as you can continue to make new factions from your cities and either make them allies or declare war on them.

Reply #16 from Elemental Forums Top

I'm curious, what does the image in the OP have to do with the number of players, especially given that the upcoming Beta won't include vassals and minor factions?  Or is it just alluding to the fact that the beta will be coming soon? I'm confused o_O

Reply #17 from Demigod Forums Top

Quoting astrath, reply 13
Me.  Want.  Now.

Me too.

Reply #18 from Elemental Forums Top

So how does this work with one losing the game by losing the channeler? If the minor nations have channelers, those aren't so uncommon after all. If they don't get them, it makes no sense to lose because you no longer have something other civs don't even need.

Reply #19 from Elemental Forums Top

Question, why does going north remind me of the Horde...hmm

Reply #20 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Lord, reply 16
I'm curious, what does the image in the OP have to do with the number of players, especially given that the upcoming Beta won't include vassals and minor factions?  Or is it just alluding to the fact that the beta will be coming soon? I'm confused

I'm guessing the picture in the post has to do with the video for the beta release that was being talked about on twitter... just a guess though.  The vassalage sounds pretty darn awesome... except I kind of want to try playing a game starting as a vassal state.  I guess we'll see if that ends up being possible when it gets into the game!

 

EDIT:  Also, what's the deal with the [more] at the end of the post on the journals page?  It makes me want to click on it for more, but there's nothing there!

Reply #21 from Elemental Forums Top

I had fun using this feature in Civ4. I look forward to see how it will be implemented in Elemental. Thanks for the great news!

*cough* August FAQ *cough* Sorry, I think I'm coming down with the flu...

Reply #22 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting LDiCesare, reply 18
If they don't get them, it makes no sense to lose because you no longer have something other civs don't even need.

From what we've heard, i think it's pretty safe to assume that the channeler in the game is meant to represent the player. So, if the channeler dies, you "die". Makes a lot of sense to me. And i've got to say, i really like this concept.

Reply #23 from Elemental Forums Top

"Initially, as a vassal, it is allied to you."

It would seem that as an Ally, initially at least, you would keep all trade and the like until such a time as the Vassal grew, independantly, large enough to become a Military threat. Given that, it may be an idea to keep an eye on your Vassals so they put all their effort into making your military/resource needs a priority thus reducing their ability to get to big for thier own britches so to speak. :)

Another great component of this feature would be to use Vassal states as buffers, self defensive buffers, to be placed between your enemies and your Major Cities. Any Ally would surely cry out for assistance if attacked, thus alerting you to any potential dangers before they actaully impact your own pocket book.

Reply #24 from Elemental Forums Top

Dude... you guys just keep on delivering the goods! BETA!

Reply #25 from Elemental Forums Top

A vassal state is a city (or group of cities) that is originally founded by the player but has been made independent by that player. It becomes its own independent faction controlled by the AI. Initially, as a vassal, it is allied to you. But being independent, all bets are off of what happens in the future. It may join up with someone else, combine up with other vassals to form a new kingdom, or even go on its own to try to become a major faction in its own right through a path of conquest.

OMG that Sounds to nice to be true... what a good idea. This makes the game become so much more. I think Stardock just came up with an original idea, which makes it so much harder to "conquer" the world by force.