Indeed, the easiest way to beat the AI is always to just let it kill itself...

Vertigo is awesome, it reduces the damage coming at an advent fleet and thus the guardians have less work to do so more AM for repulse and less need for shield restore. At least, that's how I use it.

I think swapping guidance and repulse would work. Guidance is lackluster at best and seems suited for a support cruiser.

Stop saying a SB is a coutner to Illums, that's just ridiculous!

Also Advent always had best LFs. The HC is not the best thou, TEC Kodiak is better by far, because it is good at all stages. Even though you can upgrade Advent HC to beat Kodiaks with a lot of research and carrier cap aura.

Anyway back when Illums really stank I would 90% of the time rush for HC as advent, and 10% of the time I would mass bobmers. This was back when no one used carriers for anything. A huge bomber fleet was always effective if u can avoid fighting enough. You could do hit and runs with impunity before SBs (prior to entrenchment).

Whether you like it or not, it is a counter to illums or any lrf.  Any SB counters lrf pretty well with the right upgrades.  It takes a lot of LRF to take down a SB without losing a sizeable chunk of the fleet.  The vasari can repair itself with destroyed ships, can block forward damage and is just a beast to take down even in good conditions.  The advent can meteor LRF to death and prevent a percentage of damage by mass disorientation turning.  TEC have the button.  Personally I am very hesitant to take an illum fleet with guardian/ progen tanking against an even halfway upgraded SB.

[_]-Greyfox

As far as I've seen illums with lvl 3 shield restore and some guards can pretty effectively tank a half upgraded sb. But for tec and vas sb's eat their lrf that much is true.

Grtz,
Flipkik

Actually, if you micro properly, TEC lrms can hit TEC and Advent starbases without ever being in range of even the third weapon that has the long range. Granted this requires an akkan with the range boost and micro to keep everything near the akkan, but it does work. It takes forever, but it works!

If they jump to another planet, then they are without their AM which is kinda a requirement for repulse that you all bitch so much about as well as shield restore or whatever else.  Plus they are damaged a decent amount.  Also, thats what phase jump inhibitors are for.

[_]-Greyfox

If the defender hasn't upgraded his starbase, Illums will chew it up if they got a mothership.

If that starbase is upgraded, that's a ton of cash dumped there. You can safely jump out, regenerate some and go the other way, or even go straight through. You aren't likely to meet an adequate force, cause you paid for a fleet and he paid for that brick you left behind.

I can't believe you so called pros are trying to convince me that turtling with starbases is a good counter against an LRFs spam. Hilarious. I know a SB is likely the only thing that an illum spam won't rape flat, but it's just there, costs a heap and does nothing unless you fly into it.

I think it's more like a "decent last resort" than a good counter.

The way to make starbases counter illums is to use them offensively.  Thus if the enemy chooses not to fight they are losing planets.  This works best early game when the mothership is low leveled, the illum army is small, and the homeworld is vulnerable.  In the long-run starbases are still one of your best weapons (particularly as Vasari) but the Advent fleet just begins to go insane. 

So it's not the Starbase that's an Illum Spam counter.
It's a Starbase Rush that in not swiftly countered by illum spam.

I find it a difference.

I don't think starbases can be called a counter to anything, since it requires that the units you are trying to counter move into range and stay there long enough to die. A starbase is a speedbump at best and an annoyance at worst.

True, the vasari starbase can move, but so can a fleet. And a Fleet can leave the well.

You find a difference because there is one. An early game SB is hard to combat with an early game fleet, especially for the advent, but a moderately leveled mothership, some illums, and a couple guardians for backup will steamroll it into oblivion.

Well as TEC you can....oh wait.....

The starbase rush is an Illum counter on smaller maps. Basically, the idea is to get a starbase to THE critical planet that two people would be fighting over early. Get the starbase up quick and early, and you just took away a huge planet from your opponent. Outside of scout spamming against a PURE illum spammer, this is probably the best option ya got. And it only works for Vasari and their mobile starbase.

Flatout guys we have come to the conclusion that Ilums only conter(if the player has flak) is the Vas SB which I might mention works in ONLY one well.

Ilums are OP. Case Closed.

-EmpReb

That's not a counter, that's scrying

A counter is when you see an enemy with something and then you produce and bring something that defeats what the enemy has. Like flaks and fighters vs. carrier spam. You may lose the first battle but the second is yours. Then it's the enemy's turn to counter you.
With illums, you have to counter before you really know what you're countering.
That's why this is NOT a counter.

Well, I think the best answer I have is that starbases are good against anything. Specifically I'm talking about Vasari SB. The only thing starbases have to worry about are bombers and anti-module ships. I guess what matters here is do yo usee starbases as a blanket counter or the lone tactic the Vasari have that will put a bulwark in front of the Illum wave that's going to come.

I feel like we argue over semantics. Maybe that's just me.

I don't like building starbases... I hardly build starbases for that reason often regret it but sometimes I'm happy I didn't invest in it. 

What is funny tho is to go for carriers first as advent against an sb rushing vas... Right I'll go illums you go sb rush... Say hi to the bomber squads. Doesn't always work but... meh...

Grtz,
Flipkik

Psychological victory right there

Ah! So there ARE other victory conditions already!