Entrenchment beta, too. The same thing came up. Watching psychoraven get schooled is always fun.

I just wish they wouldn't call it a "pre-order". If you pre-order games from anybody else, it doesn't work the same way. Like Aion for example. I pre-ordered that and got a beta key without paying anything. Of course, I did that entirely because I wanted a demo due to not trusting MMO reviews or hype in the slightest. So I tried it, then cancelled the order.

What Stardock does prevents that, but it's also a fundamentally different beast. If you're paying before the game is at release, it's not a "pre-order", it's an "order". The same as if you're buying anything else, you're actually buying the game and not pledging to buy it later (which is what a "pre-order" actually is).

Maybe they should rename it to "pre-release order"?

Stardock, although not entirely clear for a new customer on the subject, is still playing nice. Once they charge you can download the Beta. I remember pre-ordering games from Steam where I was charged without getting anything until the game was released (except for a 10% discount which was reinstated one week after the game was released). I'm not making that mistake again...

Yeah I agree I think that's false advertisement. They make it sound like a BETA which has always been FREE and a Pre-Order which has always been able to be canceled before the release date. I thought they just wanted a rough estimate of how many people were interested in buying the game upon release date not actually CHARGING TO PLAY A BETA!! lol They are some fools.

How?  They are using the terms in a slightly different way than most companies, sure, but still well within the limits of the term itself.  On the subject of 'beta' they are, in fact, closer to the idea than most other companies; they actually use their betas for testing and not glorified demos!  As for 'always' been free, no, not true.  Some (even 'a lot of') companies might release the beta versions for free, but that has never been SD's policy.

As for pre-ordering, it means, literally, to order 'before'.  There is nothing in the definition of the word that locks in when that before has to be.  If you don't care for it, you are free to contact [email protected] and ask them to shift your purhcase out of the pre-order queue, and manually hold it until the game is released.  (I don't know if they can actually do that, but I bet they can).

Finally, stop acting so 'abused' by this policy; you always have the choice of taking your dollar somewhere that agrees with you more.

Sorry I don't go for play on words pal and this is the biggest play on words I've ever seen. I've NEVER paid to play a BETA in 27 years. I've been a BETA tester for games since SSI days and I never had to paid a dime or put up a dime or any amount of monty to play a GD BETA edition. This is just a CHEAP ASS way to scam money out of kids who don't understand the policy or rules about BETA vs PRE-ORDERS.

No, not really. You're still buying the game. "Paying to get in beta" implies there's an extra fee for that, which there isn't.

Just look at it this way, the sooner you pay for your order, the sooner you get to play / test the game.

With the long beta's Stardock provides and the absense of DRM, they don't really have much choice I think. If they give everyone the ability to download the game without paying, and cancelling the pre-order whenever they like, you could download the game, play it from the start of beta and cancel the game just before the beta ends. That way, you have the latest (Hopefully very stable and fun) beta without any cost to play for as long as you want.

And Stardock isn't really the only firm I've known to do this. Blizzard did something like this as well with the European beta of WoW. If you placed a pre-order with certain shops / websites, you would get billed immedialty but get a beta key send to you. Only website I found with this offer and a Collector's Edition available was in Finnish... I had to guess what I had to fill in which field...

No it's not. Stardock betas have always been that way - as long as I can remember. They want feedback only from people who are willing to buy the game - not for people who want to play a demo, scream a lot on the forums and then move on. (I'm not implying that you would act that way but there are enough of them out there.)

If you don't want in then don't pre-order now. Simple as that. If you find yourself "scammed" a quick note to [email protected] will do the trick.

There still seem to be two different voices in this thread that haven't been reconciled by an official source.  According to the Pre-Order page for the game, we will be charged and notified "when the product becomes available."  By "product," is Stardock referring to the final release product, or the initial beta release?  My understanding is that one pre-orders the game, plays the beta, and then finally pays for the game upon release.  I don't expect to be able to cancel the pre-order if I've downloaded the beta, but I also do not expect to be billed immediately upon first beta.  Is there some official source to confirm which date the account is charged (that is, at what point I will no longer be able to use the fifty dollars which, prior to that point, was in my checking account).

From the way the devs explained it and they way it has been done in the past...your card will be charged the full amount once you are able to download the beta.

The way that the system works is that you need a serial key registered in order to download. That's how people with it (be it preorder or final) are distinguished from those without. If you have an uncharged preorder, it's not even linked to your Impulse account in any way yet, it's just queued up in sales.

When the beta is opened, all pending preordeers are charged through and those people are issued their serials so they can have access. Those steps (buy, get/register serial, granted access) are inseparable because there's no differentiation between a beta key and a final key.

If you do not wish to tie up your money at such an early stage or want to try the game before doing so, I'd advise against preordering. We usually do a demo after final if that's more your thing, and you can still propose ideas and such on the forum based on others' comments without having the beta yourself.

The current plan is for the beta to open sometime next weekend or shortly following (during/after PAX).

ok, that makes sense, im just wondering why my account was charged yesterday if its not supposed to be charged until the beta comes out? 

That was likely the fund check, it seems to show up on some peoples bills but not others. It should be reversed. (I never see them at all.)

Yes, hold policies vary from bank to bank. Most release them in 24-48 hours at most.