What's the point about debating Heathcare Reform?

Its amazing how the far left Polosi/Obama/Dean/ Democrats are trying to portray the Republicans as the ones who are standing in the way of Government run health care. Republicans have been rendered totally insignificant from losses in 06 and 08 and cant do a damn thing to stop it. The Democrats can pass anything they want without a single Republican vote and yet they are still blaming the GOP for all their problems.

Because it's the United States of Democrats?

I find it interesting that the senate version of the health care reform bill/agenda has a variety of gop parts in it. Seems not many people are willing to admit that part. >_>

Be nice if they printed the Republican parts in red and the Democrat parts in blue - I sure as hell can't tell who authored what when the ink's all black.

Nah, I take that back - we have enough trouble staying on topic & on the facts as it is.

the democrates are not united, they are fighting with each other... And this "distruptive unamerican people who utilize the first amendment" have got some democrats afraid they will not be reelected if they push this through, so they aren't.

Also, as the bill is written, you'd have to be a corrupt idiot to vote for it... And not EVERY democrat is a corrupt idiot.

I'm curious at what your thoughts are of this, Charles. I'm a bit skeptical because of the page it's on as well as the data they have (like during Clinton's administration), but it still got me thinking.

( Source: http://www.lafn.org/politics/gvdc/Natl_Debt_Chart.html )

The raw numbers are what they are, and don't take into consideration fairly significant events like the dot-com bubble, 9/11, etc., but I note that whether a particular year's deficit is 'Republican' or 'Democrat' is determined by who was in the White House that year.

A more meaningful graph would have control of Congress along the x axis - Republican, Democrat or Mixed.  A President can't spend a nickel on his own, only Congress.  Drawing conclusions might be more difficult but at least the deficits would be correctly assigned.  Doesn't mean the Republicans would look any better - lord knows they've been infected with Potomac Spending Fever, too.

Indeed we have; thanks for your insight.

Here's an interesting thing about this graphs. As Daiwa and many others have pointed out, one must understand how the Govt branches work. Now, we all should know that it is Congress who holds the purse in this country and that no matter who's in the White House the President will only spend what Congress approves. That is why the following chart should be more accurate:

The bottom part in the red box is what party(s) was in control of the House and Senate during these Presidential years. Link

From Joeuser

Now, lets not forget that Obama is on a role having both houses on his side breaking records in debt so as much as we might want to watch both sides of this chart, Obama will ultimately make it all look like childs play.

the CONGRESS controls the spending, not the PRESIDENT. And charlesCS has corrected the chart marveously.

Besides which, there are plenty of rotten apples in the republicans. But two wrongs don't make a right AldericJourdain, something you liberals constantly fail to understand.

1. Not a liberal.

2. Mind explaining what you mean by the two wrongs comment?

3. Like I said above, I was skeptical. I never said I was sold hook,line, and sinker.

The reason for the debate?

They are elected offictials, and they may not be reelected this time...  

And the chart is correct, the BOTTOM part (the congress) is what controls the spending, the President only can help direct, but cannot create.

1. You seem pretty liberal to me, unless I am confusing you with a fellow poster (it happens).

2. You countered a claim of uncontrolled spending by our current administration (democrat) by linking a graph showing supposed uncontrolled republican spending. which is balony as CharlesCS pointed out; [sarcasm] I especially "liked" the "hick speak" at the bottom by the elephant. [/sarcasm]

But even if the graph was perfectly accurate (which it isn't), a history of the republicans doing wrong does not excuse the democrats from doing wrong.

3. Ok, I missed that part about you showing skepticism about the graph's validity. I apologize.

1. Mmm, that's the thing - I don't consider myself a liberal largely because I don't associate myself with the current liberal party (democrats). I feel they've gone away from what liberalism, in it's purest form, means. I'm actually writing something on that topic, currently, it might help explain it.

2. Not intending to excuse their actions, merely pointing out that both sides have had issues with it; they're definitely equal opportunity on their mistakes. >_>

3. Thanks.

None the less that graph is very misleading and you can't deny that a lot of the spending was done under Democrat control although Republicans are not innocent here. taltamir has a point, you can't excuse one mistake with another. You may get a positive when mutiplying two negative numbers but that only works in math.

Democrat control or not, there have been periods of time where the GOP were not at such a disadvantage - in fact, there are cases where members of the GOP have sided with Democrats on spending. You can always yell, scream, and point the finger at one party or the other - that's easy and requires very little critical thinking. Ultimately, both parties have the same responsibility/culpability, and so do we.

~A

This. There is a significant faction within the Democrat Party, the 'Blue Dog' Democrats, which votes conservatively, at least on fiscal issues. The leadership needs to sell the bill to them before it can push it through.

While what you say is true, I find it sad that the most concerning thing to this Administration is selling this reform to other politicians but not to the people. If there is one thing I can say about politicians, especially Democrats in 2009, they sure know how to listen when those who are talking are talking with the politicians jobs in their hands. I remember the days when incentives made people work harder, now losing youre job is todays incentive/motivation.

That's an excellent point Charles, and I agree with you completely.