Homelessness: the Shameful Specter of the Capitalist Society.....

I doubt that most of those living on the street started living on the streets willingly and voluntarily gave up all their worldly possessions except for their bankaccount in which they had millions. I've helped out at a shelter once on christmas day while visiting friends in Sacramento and the people that came there for lunch were not looking like they wanted to live on the streets, I can tell you that much. I've never seen so broken people.

You imply the possibility that those who live on the streets just choose to be there and could get off it if they wanted  to. I think life as a homeless person is pretty harsh and that most really don't want to be there but don't know how to get out of it or don't know whom to ask for help. Getting off the street is probably alot harder than starting to live on it. It's a viceous cycle and escape is not that easy, especially in nation with such a calvinistic work ethic mentality and where hard work is not enough sometimes and those who need welfare are stigmatized as lazy despite working 2 or 3 jobs in some cases.

Generalizsations in either direction are always prejudicial and cause me to lose sight of the individuals, and that is bad thing because every homeless person had a home once and a life story (now I sound like lifetime melodrama  ) but it's true nontheless.

 

 

A guy once called into a talk show I was listening to, on which they were discussing the homelssness issue. He was a truck driver, who had, during his 20s, lived on the streets for several years. His point was that he, and many of the people he knew there, had homes, families and lives they could go to, if they so chose, but none did. They just preferred the aimless, drifting lifestyle of being bums on the street. Others were addicts of various kinds, and/or mentally unstable people who chose not to take their meds.

This guy said he just woke up one day, tired of being there, went to a church asked for help and got right, got a job, went and earned his CDLs, and said he was writing a book about his experiences. Is it possible to get off the street? Of course; all you have to do is want to, just like anything else. 

Little Whip, who used to write here, once wrote that she has a homeless heroin addict in her neighborhood; he panhandles, and once told her he often makes over ten dollars an hour doing so. That being the case, why should he rejoin society? That's the mentality that irritates people like me.

I'm not saying that everyone who lives on the streets chose to be there; not at all. What I'm saying is, there are, indeed, many who have done so, for whatever reason(s), or who are not willing to take on the responsibilities of society, and thusly live as they do. Various people and groups politicize this issue, and make more out of it than it really is, using these people and the isses they embody for monetary or political gain.

I remember a few years ago; there was a big outcry over the 500,000 homeless people in Chicago (I think it was); politicans and homeless advocates beat their breasts and wept over this sad, shameful problem. In the next year or so later, however, a university did an independent survey, and found less than 5,000 homeless. That's a lot, but it's a lot less than half a million.

I know what you mean with the panhandlers.. I grew up in very touristy town in Germany at the lake of Constance and we had this homeless guy who came every summer and had a few dogs and just begged - and he must have made alot of money. During wintertime he was in his house in southfrance. Freiburg, where I currently live, has a lot of homeless punks who just sit around all day and drink and do drugs. Public drinking is not forbidden here.. so they have their orgies right in the middle of the pedestrian precinct. There is broken glass all over the place all the time during early morning hours. They get welfare and beg and make more money that way then they would working or making an apprenticeship for a trade (those take 3 years) and they feel cheated because they get less money working than living on welfare lol *hmpf* (that is really a crappy mentality) It annoys me as hell, because they truly leech from society because Germany has a very tight social net. Then there is the problem with organized begging by gypsie crews who come every few years like a plague. They beat up their kids and mistreat their wifes so they look horrible and pityful and make more money. Thank god Romania is the EU - free travel for everybody ey

From what I have heard that is not so much the case in the US. If you lose your job and house because you can't pay the mortgage anymore and your car etc. you're really screwed. Everything relies on people having a car, not being able to drive is almost like being crippled.

I believe that life on the streets changes you as a person.. those normal ways of behaviour don't exist anymore. You're on your own and have to look out for yourself and nobody will care if you die or have enough food or need help - except some social workers or cops. Going from that violent existance back to normal must be really weird, and even if they could theoretically go back to their families and old jobs some just don't fit into that society anymore - can't handle normal. I am pretty sure that is why so many don't make it back, but I am also pretty sure that love for ones family is strong enough to help overcome the obstacles in others.

Politics loves sentimental stories, especially in the US. It doesn't surprise me in the least that it is picked up as an issue.

 

local churches always go and simply BEG homeless people to take aid that they are offer... they refuse. In the USA, the homeless are homeless due to reasons OTHER than economical.

They might have ran away from home due to being abused, they might have ran away from society, they might be on drugs or mentally unstable.

Being POOR is no reason to be homeless in america. Minimum wage easily pays for a place to live, and more, and there is ALWAYS help to those who are willing to receive it.

Economical reasons are one of many reasons, and I'd be surprised if that could be dismissed out of hand as having no importance at all. 

Read Barbara Ehrenreichs book on minimumwage. She tried to live off it as an social experiment and wrote a book about it. She said it is impossible to pull it off, and I am inclined to believe her. Maybe if you are single and have no children and very low living standards and never get sick, then you might get by. Otherwise I doubt it is as easy to make ends meet as you make it sound.

utemia, i am a poor student. I live on BELOW what the government said should be poverty for a single male of my age. I worked minimum wage before... Everyone there spent half their money on cigarettes and beer.

Also, how can you stay making minimum wage? UPS forklift driver, 16$/hour, goes up by a dollar after 2 week training period. Construction worker, clerk... there are a ton of jobs that pay more than min wage...

Roomates is also another big helper. Even when NOT in college, I spent many years sharing appartments or houses with friends to reduce living expenses.

I've always shared apartments to reduce costs. It is pretty common here. And I had a lot of crazy roommates lol sheesh.

Ahh poverty.. another issue of huge political impact. If what you say were true, then nobody should live in poverty - which is not true. Even people that work hard from early to late in the evening are poor and stay that way in the US (and in the rest of the world). Reasons for that are manifold, I think it's mostly due to a poor education. In order to fight poverty one has to make sure that everybody has a solid education. Every dollar spent on education will reduce costs spent on welfare programms. That's what PISA is all about, a survey of skill in math, reading and writing, and logical solution finding among 15 year old students in different countries around the world. Industry needs skilled workers and experts in their field so education is a question of economics. And since more and more jobs become computerized and more technical, the need for skilled workers rises. Unlearned people are needed less and less.

In order to work as a forklift driver in Germany you have to finish an apprenticeship as a warehouse clerk. That takes 3 years. Same goes for construction workers, builders, painters, electricians, carpenters etc. have to have a finished apprenticeship before they are employed by any construction company. Administrative workers have to do that - basically every trade required it.

Germany doesn't have minimum wage, did you know that? We have very powerful workers unions in many different fields, like service jobs, metal industry, chemical industry etc. and they negotiate tarifs. Wal mart actually withdrew from Germany because the union was too strong for their liking.

And taking 3 years to do an apprenticeship is... unreasonable?

Anyways, I said there is no reason to be HOMELESS, not that there is no reason to be POOR. You can be poor but not homeless...

But for most people, they can easily become middle class with just a tiny bit of hard work.

Utemia, I don't know about Germany, but are you aware that in America, "poverty level" begins at $25,000/year? That obesity is considered a disease of the  very poor? That to be considered "hungry" in America, all you have to miss is one meal a month?

I know lots of "poor" people; heck, I'm one of them, by wage standards. Between the two of us, my wife and I make less than $50,000 a year, yet we live very comfortably, and well. Sometimes the wolf howls, but that's life; it's crazy to think everyone should get to live like a king, just because, and without having to work at it.

Thanks to a recent inheritance, we've purchased a house; up til now, however, we've rented, both houses and apartments.

All the "poor people" I know have cars or access to transportation, homes of one sort or another, more than one TV, and cash for things like junk food, fast food, cigarettes, alcohol, marijuana.....but by the standards of the day, they're "poor".

And you're right....it often IS due to a poor education. But there have to be efforts made on both sides of that issue. Here, even people with a high school diploma often can't identify historical figures, do basic math, read or write at adult levels; the educational system is geared toward overall testing results, rather than basic, "three-R's" learning. My wife's cousin is a fine example of the modern American educational system; he can neither read nor write, yet he accepted a HS diploma in 2005. He works as a janitor....however, he does get paid pretty well, from what I've heard.

The area I live in has a very strong union mentality. The unions dominated the steel mills and smaller industries for years, and dictated to managment and the business owners what they would and wouldn't do, what concessions they would make, which weren't many.

Well, aftr many years of union thuggery, we now have a lot of idle, rusting steel mills; we have lots of Brazillians, Japanese and Koreans doing what people like my dad used to do, and for a whole lot less. 

We have a lot of retired steelworkers who've lost their pensions and their medical and life insurance, because when the good times were over, it turned out the unions had ultimately screwed them over all during the 60s, 70s and 80s.....and have had to give in now.

Yet, the union leaders live in $300,000 houses and drive BMWs.

The union mentality is so pervasive, however, that most union members still blame management and the businessmen, rather than the unions themselves. Talk about brainwashing.

I call bullshit.  She may not know 'how' but it's being done.  And who ever said minimum wage jobs should be careers for God's sake?

I am reminded of a conversation I had with a classmate after I scored really well on a test...

Her: "tal, how are you so smart"

Me: "what do you mean? I just study hard, today I spent four hours reading the textbook"

Her: "Oh man, I can never get myself to read the textbook"

... the day before she told me that:

1. She is failing the class

2. she will not withdraw, because withdrawing you don't learn anything and you admit failure, instead she will push to the end.

3. she is poor and is trying to get an education to get out of it.

 

I don't think she is gonna succeed in this... she is failing the classes because she will not read. She just doesn't have the patience to spend on reading the textbook and it shows. You cannot FORCE a person to learn, you can only offer them knowledge.

Agreed; according to statistics, most people who live on minimum wage only earn it for 6 months or so, before raises kick in, or moving on to a better-paying job. It's called working your way up.

I'd be curious to know how long she lived on it, too; it was probably like the reporter who goes out for a night or two in December or January, living on the street with the homeless, then goes back to his warm, comfy apartment and writes a prize-winning article. This has happened, by the way; a reporter for the NYTimes (naturally) did so, even kicking a bum off his steam grate "bed", in order to see how he lived. +LOL+ That's liberal compassion for you.

I am kicking you off for your OWN GOOD, by writing about your suffering many people will be angry and supportive of my political beleifs, resulting in you receiving their magical vibes of good feeling.

 

Uh....excuse me?

that was sarcasm.

That is an issue with the educational system and the way schools work. What is needed are motivated teachers and a thought out pedagogical approach. Educating the children with morals and values and transforming them into sensible and responsible persons falls mostly to teachers since school is the place they spend most of their time,  more than with their family. So the effort has to come from the school and in extension from the state to make sure that this process is possible. You can't blame a kid for not learning if nobody ever taught him or her that it is important to learn or even HOW to learn. Not everybody has this inner urge to do it on their own and some need a nudge to show them what they are cabable of. If everybody tells you that are too stupid for anything but low menial labour you will be unable to do anything else, it is a selffulfilling prohecy. This is a pedagogical challenge if there ever was one. And that is why teachers carry the weight of society on their shoulders and deserve the utmost respect and high wage and a lot paid vacation, because a good teacher takes up the slack of dysfunctional families and there is more and more of that. It is a huge issue that doesn't get enough attention because the general consensus seems to be that throwing money at lazy students is the wrong way to go, because that is NOT what improving the school system is all about.

Poverty is a tricky thing to define. I had visited my brother while he was living in Sacramento and was always shocked how expensive good healthy food was. Fast food was alot cheaper, whereas buying healthy vegetables, fruit, salad, good bread (very important for Germans - you guys don't KNOW what bread is lol) was almost unaffordable. Well, maybe it was due to the store, Wholefoods, but it seems to be the general trend. Fastfood is cheap and healthy food is a luxury. Combined with the ridiculous idea that eating tons of meat is healthy - it is the only option if you don't have money to spare for paying 3 or 4 times as much for ingredients to prepare a healthy meal for yourself and your family. I grew up on organic food bought from a local farmer or farmers market in town, and sometimes there are farmers markets around. Sacramento had one run predominantly by Mexicans, and it was possible to buy cheap veggies there, but you really had to look for it.

Unions in Germany are not like the Unions in the US, but I know too little about that to go into detail.

She wrote her book about the working poor and the way she described it, the hours are very long and work is hard manual labour which requires onthe job training. She said it was demeaning and boring and the turnover rate was so high that you couldn't afford to complain or ask for improvements. On the other hand she thought that most jobs required alot of skill, quick thinking, high stamina. I don't know if it is that easy to have some sort of career going up from working as a maid or waitress or storeclerk in walmart. But there are counter experiments as well to show that it is possible, notably Adam Shepard's Scratch Beginnings

She tried it 3 times in 3 different cities for several weeks each.

There is a famous investigative journalist in Germany who did a similar thing in the 70ies by dressing up as a turkish "guest worker" and seing what it was like. Recently, he went undercover in a bakery that produced for a prominent discounter, LIDL. His findings were quite appaling, there were no safetly measures, old equipment and ovens where workers burnt themselves regularly, mold, low wages etc. His publishing lead to publicity about this and subsequently to alot of changes. LIDL was emberassed and pissed off at him and tried to ban his book.. they claimed he went there using a false name and violated several laws of privacy da da da His name is Günter Walraff  

 

Which is a big problem. This basically results in children being forced to attend indocrination facilities, but instead of indoctrinating them with responsibility, being hard working, and morals, they are indocrinated with laziness, unfairness, working the system, and entitlement.

Yeah. Do you have a good idea how to do things differently? It isn't as simple as it sounds, educating young people and helping them to develop into responsible sensible beings. Do you chuck those out that don't make it lol.. that would be great problem solving but you'd only create problems for society that way. This problem deserves more attention on a national level.

The US had great reform pedagogics that amongst other things developed the system you have now, where teachers are very much invovled into school activities and students identify with their school sportteams etc. and have alot of extracurricular options available. I think that it isn't that a bad system and it's very different from Germany. Here, schools and universities don't have sport teams, or if they do it's just for fun of playing and there is hardly any competitive playing against other teams.There's no school spirit whatsoever here  or proud alumni meeting in homecoming dances.

Then there is the social factor of traditional families becoming less and less where both parents live together and raise their kids. Divorces can do real damage to children, and there are a ton of other social problems like social and ethnic bachround and minorities that can hinder the process of becoming a good student. And the ones that have to somehow cope with all that and ensure that kids turn out alright despite all that are the schools. Talk about national security in a different sense here.

it is called social evolution, instead of indoctrinating everyone in the country from early childhood, let people educate their own children in such manners. The result is a hetrogenous society where failed ideologies are allowed to fail, and successful ones thrive.

This evolution of cultures is why incest and canibalism is taboo in our current society. Societies that values those things have all failed.

Did you expect that I Would have no answer, or that my suggestion would be to indoctrinate everyone to MY way of thinking?

All the problems that you describe are enabled by our stupid laws. eliminate entitlement and you will see a lot less family breakdowns.

Can you elaborate on what you mean with "failed ideologies" and with what everyone is indoctrinated? There is no institutionalized ideology that is rammed down peoples throats. People are no longer strictly bound by rules or class or race and gender to a certain behaviour and that gives more freedeom. That freedom (granted by the constitution) creates a new set of challenges.

Actually, I did expect you to have no complete answer (unless you were a educational science major)  because it is a big problem and  The good answer to solve it hasn't been found yet even though people have been trying for decades, almost centuries now. There are several theories and concepts for schools being put into practice. And even if you have a perfect concept, you still need good motivated teachers that don't give up to put it into action.

Your suggestion isn't all that problemoriented though. Let people educate their own children would be a great idea if people were actually doing it. But what with mom and dad seperated and mom working all day and dad has a new family etc. (patchwork family) sometimes that education simply doesn't take place by the family. Or kids growing up in bad neighborhoods with lots of gangs and drugrelated violence, they get an education from their peers that might be stronger than what their parents tell them is right. It is a layered problem.

Yea, lets get rid of the constitution! That is what it ultimately comes down to if get rid of your stupid laws. Whose laws would you have instead..?

HA... major... I major in molecular biology, but I have enough knowledge and experience in education to fill books. Studying and "major" are not necessarily the same. You can read a book outside of class, and if all your knowledge comes from mandatory lectures and not from voluntery reading, then you are truely ignorant.

Not educating your children IS a failed ideaolgy that will fail and result in unachieving children who are unlikely to reproduce without entitlement.

The constitution requires us to indoctrinate children with the current fad? where exactly?

I was more thinking of research done in the course of majoring in the field, which is conducted by the faculty of educational science. Universities (at least in Germany) are sometimes more dedicated to research than teaching, and the final thesis required here (80-100 page paper) has to consist of independant unique research on the basis of your theory, and not just recycling secondary literature.  The science aspect is alot more broader than hands on knowledge about teaching methods, cognitive science, pedagogical psychology, school psychology, neurology - probably even molecular biology in conjunction with that, pedagogical science in a broader sense and other fields that I can't think of right now. It is necessary to know  the technical literature in your field in order to explain how and why your methodology works. Famous people in that field were Albert Bandura, Skinner, Pavlow etc. I am partly ignorant of that because I am not a educational scientist by trade even if I have rudimentary knowledge about the basics. I do know that it is alot more difficult to come up with a good way to tackle all the current problems in schools than simply blaming some undefined ideology of entitlement. It is all nice and easy to place the blame and point out those whose fault it is and a different ballgame to find a solution that works.

It seems that that is a circular problem. Sometimes I feel that it would be much wiser and efficient  to teach the parents instead of the kids or to teach children how to teach so they can teach their eventual offspring.

That's not what I meant. My statement was a reaction to your "lets get rid of all the stupid laws" because they were the root of all evil, namely the attitude of entitlement.

 

 

Oh; heh....I get it, now. Sorry. Little slow on the uptake, there.

 

---utemia

I agree with this, and individual teachers do deserve more than what they get, but here, they DO get three months paid vacation every year. They only work nine months out of the year. 

America's students score lower and lower against other nations all the time, even though the government keeps throwing truckloads of cash in their direction. Let me point out that this is same institution which produced many scientists and engineers which helped earn us the moon; which made us one of the greatest world powers in history, and in less than 150 years, at that.

What's happened? The American public school system has, over the last 30-40 years, become a discipline-free zone, and a cesspool of Leftist and touchy-feely, secular-humanist indoctrination. A place where good self-esteem is valued over high grades and accomplishment; therefore, everyone is rewarded equally, no matter how dismal their performance.

Also, you don't understand how the Teacher's Union works over here. They're more concerned with getting teachers this perk and that perk, than with educating kids. They're a HUUUUGE supporter of the Democratic Party, as are ALL unions here, even though the Dems hardly ever do anything but throw them a meager bone at election time.

There has been a big debate and movment over here, for quite a few years now, over providing government vouchers for lower-class children to be sent to private and/or Christian schools, getting them out of the public school system. The union hates this, of course, because it takes money away from their public schools, and exposes how inept and inadequate their influence has made our school system, as the kids who do get out and go to private schools tend to thrive academically. The Dems, thanks to the money they get from the teacher's union, don't support it.

In his first speech, Obama praised the teachers union for their superb job and the quality education they provide America's kids; yet, his own daughters attend an exculsive private school, as do most other politicians in DC. It's okay for their kids, I guess, but not for mine.

--utemia

No, it isn't tricky at all.
"Poverty" is not a relative term. Many people who live in Third World countries run by rich, self-aggrandizing dictators (many of whom describe the movements which installed them as "People's Revolutions" and such....) live in "poverty"; they live in shacks made of old, dirty plywood and tin, with a dirt floor and beds made of whatever soft materials they can find. They have to scratch and scrabble for food, and they rarely have running water, heat, electricity (much like Iraq, until we invaded, toppled the dictatorship and provided such amenities) or vehicles. That's poverty.

When Hurricane Katrina hit New Orleans, we were somberly told, time and again, that these people were the "poorest or the poor"; living in "poverty", and Katrina had taken even their meager possessions. 

Yet, in the news reports, as the camera panned across the crowds of refugees, we saw many, many well-dressed (before the looting started), morbidly obese people. Katrina taught the world that if "extreme poverty" produces anything, it's 350-pound poor people in $130 basketball jersies, $200 sneakers, and draped in gold chains and rings. That's not to say they were living it up; many may have, indeed, had crappy apartments in the Public Housing Projects, or rented crappy houses with absentee landlords. They may have had crappy cars and 10 kids (by 10 dads) they had trouble feeding. Hey; we make our choices. Do better for yourself and your family......

"Healthy" food isn't expensive; there are "no-frills stores" like Aldi, for example, where good food and vegetables are readily available, and pretty cheaply, too. Wal-Mart is another great place to get fresh veggies and meat, pretty much on the cheap.

Organic foods are always more expensive here, however, simply because, without using things like chemical fertilizers, pesticides and preservatives, they're harder to grow, and don't last as long on the shelf.

In America, there's no need to be hungry, homeless (or even jobless, really) for very long, even in a bad economy. It's still possible to work your way from a tenement to a mansion, if you try and are careful with your money.

It sounds like you need a serious reform of your educational system. Serious meaning not something where politicians try to distinguish themselves but an honest attempt to make things better for everybody. More money isn't necessarily the solution, you need a reform of how public schools are run, new concepts etc.

I like secular humanist accomplishments, it was the fertilizer for your constitution after all, don't forget that

Good selfesteem is important as well from the teachers point because a student who is convinced he is too dumb won't learn anything. You can't teach if someone is convinced that he can't learn because it is beyond him or her. And then there is the debate on how you grade in the first place.. do you give credit to someone who studieds hard on his own to go from a D to C, and is someone who has parents that make sure he does his homework everyday and has private tutors if needed and has a B average, really a smarter student? You need a balance of different norms, how much did a student get right solutions, how much has a student improved in his abilites individually, and where are his abilities in comparison to his classmates. It is up to the teacher on which norm he places the most emphasis, but all 3 are important and describe a student.

Yeah, that is undeniably true. But poverty is always analyzed in relation to what others have around you in a specified region, like a state or country. There is no absolute norm of what poverty consists of. You can't compare a Sao Paolo, Lagos, Calcutta, Manila etc. slum to New Orelans because these cities have nothing in common with New Orleans, not the culture, gross national income, economy, average wages, political system, educational level of the population etc. Poverty in a 3rd world country isn't the same as poverty in western industrialized nation.

I believe Iraq had working utilities and irrigation systems even before you invaded.

--utemia

There has been reform; as I said, American education used to be one of the best in the world. The "reforms" of the last few decades have undermined that, and weakened the system. Study now concentrates on political correctness, i.e., Multiculturalism, gender/race studies, situational ethics and moral relativism. All this combines to weaken moral and cultural resolve in the people. Our culture/civilization is coming apart at the seams, and our educational system is one of the primary factors in the collapse. When they took God out of the schools, the decline began. Believe it or not, the American public school system used to start their day with prayer; now, you're lucky if they say the Pledge of Allegience to the Flag.

--utemia

"...are endowed by their Creator with certain, inalienable Rights...."---Thomas Jefferson, the Declaration of Independence

America was founded on Christian values, by men who were Christian believers. Unfortunately, too many of us HAVE forgotten that.

---utemia

Sure good self-esteen is important, and one of the best ways to bolster that is through accomplishment. However, accomplishment is often downplayed in our schools, because kids who, perhaps, aren't as smart as others, or as talented as others (which are just a fact of life, so...just deal with it) might feel bad about themselves. So, instead of working with the students, and encouraging them to work harder, tests are often dumbed down, everyone gets a blue ribbon, and exceptionality takes a hit.

Also, tests are often dumbed down to make the teachers look  better; students in one school district I read about some time ago were not as adept at math and spelling as in other, surrounding districts. Instead of concentrating on those subjects, however, the subjects/tests themselves were simply made easier, so the teachers in that area wouldn't have to work so hard, or look so bad in comparison. Thank the Teacher's Union and the local school boards.

---utemia

I understand that; and that's what I'm saying.....what they live in, in those areas, is poverty. I feel sorry for them. "Poverty" in America is not having two TVs with cable. That's ridiculous; yet, we're expected to feel shame because Little Johnny can't watch his favorite show in his bedroom. I don't feel sorry for "poor" people in America, because there's no reason to live like that here.

---utemia

Over half of Baghdad, I know, was without electricity and running water. The UN, through the "Oil for Food" program (bribery scandal) had given Saddam millions to upgrade the system they had in place, and to expand it. The money was never spent for this, of course. Saddam simply took it and ran, like the soulless, psychopathic weasel he was. This was discovered after we invaded, to Kofi Anan's embarrassment (if indeed he was capable of such a thing) and was downplayed by the soulless, sociopathic weasels in the UN, who enrich themselves on the suffering of the world for which they're supposed to be providing.

In 2005, I read an article in the local paper, about a locally-born Army engineer, who worked on projects bringing both water and electricity to the rest of the city. That was just one of the many good things the world--and most shamefully, our own--media ignored about our efforts in Iraq.