i wasted 40 dollars on that game, but hey, i heard it vastly improved upon the other

If they ACTUALLY pull off a "Demigod: Better edition" (and i'm sure they aren't gonna do it)

What would happen with the people who bought the original? they would have to buy it AGAIN?

I believe that with The Witcher, for example, people who had already purchased the game received the upgrade to their release free of charge. I'd expect nothing less than the same deal here.

It was a free upgrade.

If this goes through, there are 4 friends of mine I can finally tell "You know what? I take it back. Buy this game. Buy it NOW."

A functional friends system would be a good start.  And integrated chat that will provide a place for people to be in pre-game.  Maybe put a little bit of effort into making these two 100% functional quickly and promote them by community activity.

IMHO things would vastly improve if we would be able to make games within certain groups.  This + better ranking + ability to see ranking ingame would help a lot avoid the pub stomps that happen now.

If the game had logged in everyone straight to chat instead of menu I think things would have been much different.

The reworked friends system for Impulse is already well underway. I believe Frogboy created a journal entry for this exact topic.

what frogboy says is simply WRONG and it lacks of logic.

that there are so few premade games is not because there are to few people wanting to play in teams, the problem is that this isn't something that really works with the current infrastructure. there is no working communication (before game) and friend system. joinig as random a premade team isn't fun. but there should be the possibility to make teams, start games as teams and join games as a team, intelligent matchmaking system

this has any other online game of this kind. this is something what such a game should have before release. it may be buggy, but at least functional. dg failed in any point that is needed for a working online rts game.

a good game is by far not enough. you need infrastructure to set up teamed games as well as random player games. to publish such a game without this infrastructure is an economic and fun-releated stupidity. it's already prooved by the very few players that still try to enjoin the nice gameplay, what is the only thing currently what prevents dg to totally die.

So how about an update on this.  Maybe even partial introduction of the new system.   Step 1 - fix whats broken.  Step 2 - introduce new features.

That's on SD's part.  On GPG's part, BUG FIXES!!!

Fast!

Kudos to Frogboy for admitting the mistakes but you still have to wonder...with a pure multiplayer game what the hell were Stardock/GPG smoking when they designed the chat/lobby system? Its by far one of the worst i've ever encountered. For something so intergral to be let out in such a state means there are some serious questions that need addressing about both the design system in place -and- testing phases.

Game sites like MS Zone from 10 years ago were more polished.

I've asked exactly the same question before. Since Demigod was basically made for multiplayer - why does it lack so many online features?

I got an answer and apparently it was due to the original designer of Demigod leaving (i forgot his name?) and Stardock joining in quite late in development...

If you want competetive then go DotA or HoN.

Demigod is much more beginner friendly and has enough depth to keep it interesting even for competetive players.

The Skirmish/Pantheon matchmaking system is great for casual gamers ... at least there they get the chance of meeting players with similar skills. Custom games are usually ass-rapes for noobs.

I compared Demigod to some of it's alternatives (Heroes of Newerth, DotA, LoL) in another thread, if anyone is interested:

http://forums.demigodthegame.com/359625

The Friends system in Impulse was put together to ensure that one existed for Demigod, as the friends system wasn't intended to be rolled out until Elemental, that's Stardock's own game, had been completed. The system we have is really a place holder while they moved the Friends system up the system of priorities and completed it.
We won't be seeing a phased roll out of the features for the friends system, we're going to see an overhaul that will supply all of the features gamers have come to expect. There is really no way to do this faster, as it's a priority feature of Impulse.

The Clan Wars patch will introduce the Team features people are asking for - I'm guessing GPG wanted to release their game and add in the 'additional' functions later. I have to agree that this isn't really something that should have been left out. For a TEAM based game not to have TEAM support really makes me wonder; perhaps they thought they would be able to introduce this content very quickly - before people got bored of casuals and randoms - and the launch day issues really messed that up?

I think one thing to bear in mind, is that the competitive scene is really when a critical mass of players is reached. Then there are enough in the community to form up regular groups/clans and play competitively.

You cannot appeal to a "competitive" community, until your casual community is at it's peak and there is a big enough player pool to move into it.

How many people started playing a game because of the competitive side of it? Very very few players. Most players start a game, because the games are fun or their friends/reviews recommend it to them.

I played CS and Supcom competitively and started both as a casual gamer.

That said, I do think that the game should listen to the competitive players a little more in terms of balance, as normally games that are balanced at high level are balanced for the low level too. The problem at the moment in this game, is that there are no top players, the game is 100% casual pretty much at the mo, there is no way to play competitvely due to the stats and matchmaking.

A change like Pre-Made matchmaking and stat tracking should be very high up on the list, it serves both groups. A big problem for new casual players is getting stomped by pre-mades and seen as most competitive players will be in premades, I am sure they will be happier if they can matchmake properly.

At the moment though, Demigod doesn't need a strong competitive focus, it needs a strong infrastructure for casual players, if they keep attracting more players, the competition will evolve from that.

The comments on SC2 are interesting. I wonder if they will listen too much to the competitive scene, the game looks nothing more than a graphical update of the original, no groundbreaking features, which the rest of the RTS world has moved into (realtime physics projectiles, cover systems,  strategic zoom out).

Just to remind you of something ZehDon, from ImpulseDriven developer:

These features are already advertised as being present in v1.0.

The question remains why was Impulse Reactor chosen as the multiplayer system for DG if it was known it wouldn't be ready for another year (don't forget DG was delayed quite a bit also).  Brad once wrote that they wanted to have options to using Steam or another service, but while pursuing his goal, he conciously chose an unfinished product which led to some of the lacking functionality of Demigod.

Ironically my friends and I use steam to do group voice chat when we play.

I diasgree here, in this day and age of getting 10 or so hours from a game for 50 bucks, I think a lot of people including casual players just want something they can come back to.

One of the greatest things about DoTA was the fact that it was always there, and always updated. I could stop for a few months or a year and come back like it was a new game.

I've always viewed Demigod as a "go-to" game or a "side" game. I purchased it with that in mind and viewed it as a long term investment. And I certainly don't expect everything to be free and would HAPPILY pay for new content expansions, provided we iron out the match making issues.

The bottom line for me is, I want to be able to hop in and enjoy a game even if I dont have a premade team, and I think a lot of people are feeling the same way.

The thing is, if you make a game for the competitive scene - it can still easily please the casual scene. However, you cannot make a game aimed at the casual players and sastify the competitive players.

Thats always been Blizzards philosophy when it comes to games, and its worked out very well indeed.

Forgive me for sounding the same as most unnuisanced kids on here, but..

What exactly does a year long support contract with GPG mean when we see very little - in my opinion - from GPGs side. I love this game they made, but it still lacks in features/bugfixes. Now, I'd have no problem with that if they'd solve that with support along the way, but I feel we see very little from GPG's side. And for me personally, they are the only ones that can change what is still missing in the game at the moment (pathfinding stuff, new demigods/maps, UI improvements, etc).

I have no problem with waiting for teamgames, pantheon, etc, all stuff that I don't use. I realize that those things are important for a large part of the community. But at the moment I do not see much stuff coming from the hands of GPG. I know how businesses work, you can't spend man hours twice, but for players of this game still waiting for promised features that's hardly our fault is it? If they promised (by contract) one year of support, then why are there not enough people allocated to it? If GPG would only show a tenth of intrest in supporting this game as Stardock did then I'd be a happy gamer.

Meh, this became the rant I was afraid of making, sorry

Hopefully, like me, you have learned to just keep your money on future releases rather than be dissapointed once you fall in love with a game. Everything I've said on this forums has largely been ignored as expected, I am but one person in the sea of a million crys.

It is just too evident to me that this will be a forward progression of things to come. When I hear things like "I know im the minority on this, [but im going to do it anyway]" I realize the things that people say are just that, words. This company hasn't come through on what it's promised its customers, and thats why they've lost all of my friends and I future support.

Demigod is a team based game.  It's definitely way more fun playing with a friend or other players than alone.  I think an arranged team ladder is highly justified.

I've read countless Starcraft 2 interviews and they ALWAYS cater to the hardcore, and the rest sort of fall in place.  If the hardcore have an outlet to compete they have no reason to stomp on casual gamers repeatedly.  Everyone should at least have the opportunity to be hardcore should they choose to.  Casual gamers that are fans of the game will become hardcore eventually.  There needs to be a way for good players to find each other, and a way to assess your progress as a gamer.

If there are any resources left I would put them towards a skill-based matchmaking system.  Random team, and arranged team ladders.  Custom games unranked.  I think the design of the game is pretty fun, but it only works if the matches are relatively even.  The more evenly skilled players are matched up, the more fun the game becomes, and the longer it will last.

I was discussing DG in the context of the DoW2 patch that is soon to come out with a friend, and some of the balancing issues present there and their responses to them carry over to issues I feel are present in DG.

Most interesting was on the subject of a knockdown chance on a unit, which actually reflected exactly the problem I have with playing DG competitively. If a unit has a 20% chance to knock another down, you can safely say that there is a 20% chance, regardless of skill, that the battle will swing to the advantage of one player. People realised this is a poor mechanic for competitive play, and it is (I believe) being changed to an activatable ability in the new patch.

Demigod has about 15 items, not including the dodge mechanic, that fit this description. Items such as poisoned dagger which can either proc and cause your opponent to suffer a huge snare and possibly die, or fail to proc and do nothing are not terribly suitable for online competitive play. I doubt those players who play to win want their matches decided by the random proc chance of items, the TF2 competitive crowd didn't, the DoW2 crowd didn't either.

I doubt this will ever be changed, no doubt some of you like a whole bunch of random chance being added to every encounter (5% damage variance on everything including skills) because it's a somewhat interesting feature and certainly a major part of playing the game at the moment. But I would argue it is not something a competitive player would want. Changing nearly all of these items to activatables would be an interesting experiment:

 - The activatable slots would now be far more difficult to economise for the player. Choosing between Ashkandor and flag locks at the end of the game is tough on maps where locks are game-deciding.

 - Item activation would become a bigger part of the game, with players taking a large number of items that can turn the tide of battle offensively (a snare activatable) as opposed to the domination of activatable defensive items (eg pots).

This is not to say %proc items are intrinsically bad, but to have something as game deciding as a snare be reliant on a small random chance seems a little out of whack with what people generally accept.

TL;DR: DG probably isn't suitable for competitive play anyway.

Apologies for the long post.

I really, really don't want to ragequit this game. I'm trying so very hard not to, because at times it really is fun. But you are right, GPG is not helping me in that respect at all. Two of the teammates that I started playing this game with have already stopped playing. It seems only a matter of time until I follow suit. 

% chance mechanics are the problem child for all competitive scenes, but I think they are relatively tame in DG, because almost none of the items that use it are actually worthwhile. Still you are correct, the less elements of random chance, the better. 

Would you move to HoN, LoL, or something else? What about your friends?

For reference: I picked up a copy of DoW2 for cheap yesterday having being sold on the new patch. I think Relic are moving in the right direction.

EDIT: They aren't worthwhile because they have low proc chances They're frustrating for both players.

I don't think Demigod should get re-reviewed. If the connectivity issues had been truly resolved (and I mean really resolved) in the first few days I would have probably felt differently.

But the connectivity problems weren't really resolved until early June -- 6 weeks later. In my  mind, that's unforgiveable and hence Demigod got the reviews it deserved. It should stand as a reminder that no matter how good the game is, if it's multiplayer centric, you have to have a more thorough and longer multiplayer beta.