Entrenchment Combat Values

from Sins Forums

Servus guys,

as we use to say in goG (good old Germany).

 

I am silently wandering these forums for quite a while now, always looking for new strats and tips.

 

And I am aware of the reference spreadsheet, the combat mechanics guide and many other topics but came across a few questions that the search function couldn't answer, so I post them here:

1. Which armor class have structures? Very heavy? Thus HC, Bombers and Cap Ships are the only units dealing a reasonable amount of damage to structures? (and of course starfish and ogrov)

2. Which damage type deal defense platforms? They don't do any damage to SC, right?

3. Which armor type have SBs? and wich damage types deal SBs? Do these SB weapon upgrades add a different damage type and if so in which order (which is starting damage type, which comes with first upgrade...)

4. Is it (still) correct that LFs do anti-heavy, Carriers have heavy armor and therefore LFs are the most suitable counter to carriers? And since fighters deal anti-light and bombers anti-very-heavy but LFs have medium armor, the carrier's SC is not able to prevent LFs from chasing down the carriers?

 

Thanks in advance (and excuse my grammar)

Extremor

strategy
37,745 views 7 replies
Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top

Your English is miles ahead of my German, so don't be sorry.

1. Structures have very heavy armor. You are correct. Long range frigates (LRM, Illum, Assailants) don't get a bonus, but they aren't bad at it. They do 75% of their damage to structures, which isn't bad.

2. I'm not sure what you mean by defence platforms. If you mean turrets, they do no damage to SC. They do anti-medium damage.

If you mean the hangars (not sure if one of them is called the defence platform or not)

TEC Hangar: You can buy autocannon's for them. They do 40 dps per platform.

Advent Hangar: They can get 750 shields and regenerate 4 shield per second on it and every building around them.

Vasari Hangar: They can phase out enemy strikecraft for long periods of time. No damage done, but enemy loses use of those for some time.

3. SB have very heavy armor.....i think. I know bombers destroy them effectively, so I think they must have very heavy armor. I don't have access to the game right now, but my guess is Starbases do either starbase damage, or capital ship damage. I think starbases do 100% of their damage...regardless of the target. That's a guess.

4. You are correct. Be careful though. Light frigates take time to destroy carriers. You should use some flak too when going up against carriers. Those strikecraft can target stuff in the grav well after the carrier is dead.

Example: Enemy has 5 advent carriers (15 squads)

I'm TEC. I'll get 15 flak (1 flak per squadron), and then 8 cobalts OR 10 LRMS. I say 10 LRMS because once you destroy the strikecraft, you can jump in LRMS and they CAN chase down the carriers. Carriers are now slower than LRMS, and LRMS are much more useful than cobalts overall.

Cobalts WILL destroy the carrier faster than LRMS. They do anti-heavy damage, as you said. LRMS, however, will destroy anything else the enemy brings, cobalts most likely will not.

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Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top

k1  for Raging Amish.

2) Yes I was referring to turrets.

 

I'm only playing on LAN with friends and your proposal (bring in flak, kill SC, then bring in LRMs) is just too much micro for me, I am too old for that kind of stuff :grin:  

 

Anyway most of my friends are playing Advent and massing out CapShips and Carriers mixed with very few Ilums and Guardians (don't ask me why, I know they underestimate the best units, but I won't tell them). So I was thinking of a way to shred that kind of fleet to pieces, hoping they will learn to mix fleets "the painful way". So I think a combination of LFs and Flak could do the job but I still have a problem with masses of hangar defenses and their associated SCs because this mix is best handled with own carriers (bombers vs structures and fighters vs enemy SC), right? 

Galactic Civilizations III
Reply #3 from Sins Forums Top

I still have a problem with masses of hangar defenses and their associated SCs

Carriers are a good option, but you may want to mix in some flak and lrfs. Flak DOMINATE hangar defenses and lrfs will protect them, and your carriers from light frigates, and they deal a decent damage percentage to buildings as well, speeding along their destruction.

As for taking out those fleets of caps and carriers, even a couple of illums can spell serious trouble for light frigates. I would recommend using bombers against enemy caps with some fighters to handle your opponent's, and some flak to help you dominate the skies. Flak take take a load of punishment from cap ships and keep chugging along. If you want to turn the tables even further build a fleet of lrfs, as they do a good damage percentage to cap ships as well, and your opponent will have to choose whether to go after your bombers or your lrfs.

You may also want to invest in Anti-Capital capital ships. Each race has one, for TEC its the Kol (which also has a very effective anti-SC ability). For advent, go with the Radiance, its detonate antimatter ability can prevent their cap ships from using their abilities, as well as their Guardians. For Vasari, the intended Cap ship killer is the Kortul, but in reality the Jarrasul evacuator is much more effective, as its Nano-dissasembler ability will chew right through those cap ships hulls and armor, dealing massive damage and allowing your ships to do more damage to them.

Cap Ship Killer + Flak + LRFs + Carriers = You win. Good luck.

 

Reply #4 from Sins Forums Top

I usually play Vasari using the Space Egg as my first Cap with maxed out Nanos, lots of Kanraks and Carriers as soon as I have the research. Used flak only sparsely (until now) because my impression was that flak is not worth the money (read similar things in this forum). Okay, it takes a lot of damage before it goes boom and does a huge amount of damage vs fighter. But vs Bomber, Structures (Hangar Defense) and everything else flak is pretty much screwed. So I assumed carriers would be the wiser choice. Unfortunately its not that easy with Vasari to build a competitive number of SC. When I get to the enemy there are waiting 4-5 Hangar Defenses and a Fleet with at least 5 Drone Hosts makes altogether 30 squadrons so as Vasari I would need 15 carriers to match that and probably 20+ to easily win that fight.

 

But back to other things:

1. When I look at the stats of LFs (at least the Vasari LF) I get the feeling this unit is far underestimated because damage is not to bad (80% of LRF damage), it is stable and deals a good amount of damage to anything except HCs and Caps, which are in low numbers early game anyway.

2. And just out of curiosity: Did anyone manage to build a starbase within an enemy GravWell containing several Hangar Defenses? I tried several times even with support of a big fleet, but those Advent bomber squadrons finished the SB off before it was built.

Reply #5 from Sins Forums Top

1. The vasari LF is deceptively weak, early game, despite its health and firepower, it will be crushed by LRMs. However with reintegration technology, its a pretty good support cruiser hunter later in the game.

2. Hangar defenses are trouble for vasari sbs, you just have to make sure you dominate enemy SC before you start construction. Flak will help your fighters by keeping enemy fighters at bay.

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Reply #6 from Sins Forums Top

1. Okay LFs get crushed by LRMs but have no real other enemy except the LRMs, right? So if:

a ) the other player does not build so much LRMs or

b ) I somehow manage (e.g. with fighters) to take out the enemy LRMs as fast as possible, my LFs are free to roam the well and crush enemy support cruisers and carriers

Right? Wrong?

 

That leads me to another question:

How intelligent is the AI battle control? I usually don't micro battles except for my own cap ships or focus fire on enemy cap ships, star bases etc. So do my ships try to find the best matching target on their own? LRFs targeting priority would probably be LFs, other LRMs, Scouts, Siege Frigs. LF target prios would be support cruisers and carriers. Fighter prios would be Bombers, Fighters, LRFs... Is this the way it works? Or do my ships simply target the closest enemy ship or the biggest or the one my fleet leader engages if controlled by AI?

Reply #7 from Sins Forums Top

1. Lfs biggest threats are Lrms and HCs

Right, without the support of LRMs and HCs, light frigates will be a serious threat to your opponents units. Also keep in mind that LFs are faster than LRMS. So if you can keep them away from the LRMS long enough to kill all or most of the LRMS you'll be in good shape.

Targeting Ai are a bit tricky, but here's what I know for sure:

Fighters will automatically target other SC over frigates (and don't have a preference for frigates), with bombers being their first priority and other fighters being their second. LRMS will auto target LFs most of the time. As far as I know LFs will just target anything, including the units designed to kill them. Flak will auto target enemy fighters as first priority and bombers as second. Scouts will choose not to autotarget anything. They prefer not to engage in battles but are surprisingly effective at killing LRFs (you just need a lot of them and have to do a little micro). HCs will target just about anything without preference (although HC militia favor your LRMS over everything else). Support cruisers also do not have a targeting preference when it comes to their weapons. And siege frigs will go after enemy planets.

Don't forget you can limit all this behavior by setting your units to hold position or local area only.