Ranting about Demigod!

I feel like ranting after a day of playing Pantheon. :P I'm gonna try and avoid shouting nerf, but I will point out my views on various characters and abilities.

Items:

 

  • Siege Idols: They can outrange towers, and while they are easy to deal with I think it might be a bit excessive to allow this.
  • Universal gadget: It's about time I mention this wonderful item. It comes in handy early on for killing enemy demigods. I have yet to be on the recieving end of one, but it's scored me a number of kills. I can't really say if this item is balanced or not, but it is quite handy early on. It's pretty useless later on, unless you need to save a fort or tower.

 

Team Joining:

I have issues with it. Premades make the game fun, and I'm guilty of doing this quite a few times. It's better to lose because you fought someone better, and not because your ally was not up to par (not that I'm all that great myself). I see premades as fair game.

 

Regulus: (big surprise eh?)

After playing a lot of matches agaisnt Regulus today (mostly 2 Regulus) I've reaffirmed my beliefs that he needs some tweaking. Regulus is one of those characters that really doesn't feel right when I play as/against him. His abilities tend to make most of the fight a little impersonal (maybe not the word I want) as he can place mines and snipe. Sniper's Scope only adds to this.Regulus is just one of those characters that scales far too well.

Regulus has abilities that boost both his attacks and he has some high damage abilities, so he has a nice balance of abilities; some of which are mitigated by armor, and others by health. This means that at higher levels opponents really have to put in decent amount of money to counter both. With most characters you buy one piece of armor that suits the opponent.

I really don't mind snipe, but it's one of those things that detracts from player to player interaction... Mines on the other hand are a bit too annoying. The slow debuff at Rank IV, the high damage output, and the ability to just leave them in place makes them a bit excessive in my eyes. Now, you can't remove mines without activating them or having Regulus place more than six. Even Rooks towers have a time limit, can be seen, and destroyed by players. I just can't fathom why there's no solid counter to Mines. Yes, a General can summon minions as a counter, but what about other Assassins?

 

Torch Bearer:

I feel that ice is lacking. I think a glaring difference is with the auras:

  • Fire Aura versus Permafrost: The Fire Aura works at all times, thus benefiting the user greatly, while Permafrost only works when enemies are around. So, basically, Permafrost is only useful "sometimes" and Fire Aura is useful "all the time."
  • Deep Freeze versus Fireball: The cooldown increase goes away when the ability is no longer effecting the target. In the end the cooldown effect didn't have much use, but it might have had some.

 

Queen of Thorns:

Easily my favorite character... Now if only there was an assassin variant of her. The ability to debuff is great, but I feel that her minions (Shamblers) are lacking. They require a lot of investment to make useful and overall it just doesn't seem like she has as many build options as other characters. I know there's been a bit of debate on this subject, but I haven't been swayed away from the idea that they are weak.

My other gripe about her is Uproot and Compost. Uproot isn't terribly useful, all it does is damage structures. Sure it sounds useful, but in the end it only saves you a couple of seconds on taking out towers. I'd rather see uproot effect an area on the ground and knock enemies around a bit. Because Uproot isn't all that useful, it means that Compost is less useful. Since I don't find Shamblers to be worth using I can never see much reason to take Compost. It does help Uproot a fair amount though, so it's not useless. I guess I'm just set in my ways after an extensive amount of playtime using the Queen. I've found what works for me, so it's possible that minions are fine.

On a side note: Open form should have a default benefit, like boosted damage or a poison.

 

Sedna:

Sedna is pretty well balanced. She isn't a killing machine, but she does a nice job at surviving and supporting her team. I think my only gripe about her is that she can reach a point where she is too durable and it just becomes too easy for her to run into your base while you retreat; of course, she escapes with minimal injury. Mostly it seems to be a result of her +health regen combined with +health regen items to get a very large bosot of health regeneration.

Her Yetis need a buff! What more can I say? I couldn't fathom a person actually using minions over any of the other great survival abilities that she has. I feel that Yeti's need to be powerful enough for someone to replace pounce or heal.

 

Oak:

He's the most balanced character in the game. He should be the reference point when trying to build fun/balanced Demigods.

 

Unclean Beast and Erebus:

Not too sure about these two. Erebus seems fine to me, but UB is pretty insane with Spit+Foul Grasp+Ooze. I wouldn't say he is unbalanced, but it's certainly a nice combination.

 

Rook:

I love Rook and his towers. But I think they should vanish when he dies, and the last Rank probably shouldn't decrease their mana cost.

 

Maps:

  • Crucible: the worst map in the game. The first team to lose their towers at the center seems to lose the match. It's far too linear of a map to be fun. I wouldn't recommend making such linear maps in the future.
  • Exile: My favorite map, but the choke point at the very end seems to be an issue at times. Still, it's a very unique map and I hope to see more like it.
  • Brothers: Boring as dirt. It's far too big and not very interesting. For such a large map it winds up being very linear.
  • Other Maps: Pretty much balanced. Symetrical and plain (but not too plain).
53,946 views 21 replies
Reply #1 Top

Hate to put a stain on your perfectly good rant, but permafrost adds mana regen to the TB and any buddies around him....at all times  . Also, Deep freeze is awesome. I only get the higher ranks of it towards late game though because they are mostly for the shatter damage. Deep Freeze allows you to interupt long casts easily, and it also allows you to prevent frequent casts of stuff like sedna's heal or QoT/Oak's shield. Use deep freeze about 5 seconds after you last saw Sedna cast her heal and see what happens to her in the next 6 seconds :ninja:  

 

I play ice tb all the time, and have decided that its more powerful than fire. Maybe if they allowed a fire torch bearer to auto attack while running, this wouldn't be the case.

Reply #2 Top

Well at least something good came out of my rant. ;) I'll try an Ice TB a bit more and see how it goes.

Reply #3 Top

Quoting Daikaze,
After playing a lot of matches agaisnt Regulus today (mostly 2 Regulus) I've reaffirmed my beliefs that he needs some tweaking.

Please just get better at the game. Buy a 50 gold totem of revelation if you refuse to keep an eye on him to watch where he places his mines. If you are determined to charge after a fleeing Regulus and step on his mines, poor you. Stop falling for it. Also, you might want to consider moving when Regulus is winding up to throw mines at your feet.

Quoting Daikaze,
Sedna: Her Yetis need a buff! What more can I say? I couldn't fathom a person actually using minions over any of the other great survival abilities that she has. I feel that Yeti's need to be powerful enough for someone to replace pounce or heal.

Yes. They are too expensive.

Quoting Daikaze,
Oak: He's the most balanced character in the game. He should be the reference point when trying to build fun/balanced Demigods.

He's not.

Quoting Daikze,
Erebus seems fine to me...

You have a lot to learn. He may very well be the most broken character in the game. And this has absolutely nothing to do with bite.

Quoting Daikze,
Rook:

I love Rook and his towers. But I think they should vanish when he dies, and the last Rank probably shouldn't decrease their mana cost.

Why? Why mess with something that's not broken?

Reply #4 Top

hmm if they disapear when he dies then he should be a generali really didn't understand why he wasn't a general

Reply #5 Top

Please just get better at the game. Buy a 50 gold totem of revelation if you refuse to keep an eye on him to watch where he places his mines. If you are determined to charge after a fleeing Regulus and step on his mines, poor you. Stop falling for it. Also, you might want to consider moving when Regulus is winding up to throw mines at your feet.

I know where the mines are. It's not like I'm dying to mines all the time or anything (it happens occassionally though). I'd never chase a Regulus, a good one always has some mines behind him.

 

So, what's wrong with Oak and Erebus?

Reply #6 Top

Quoting Daikaze, reply 5
So, what's wrong with Oak and Erebus?

Unlimited, virtually free minions.

Reply #7 Top

Damn, looks like you might have to invest in more mana in order to kill them every three seconds.

Reply #8 Top

Quoting _Shadow, reply 6

Quoting Daikaze, reply 5So, what's wrong with Oak and Erebus?
Unlimited, virtually free minions.

 

No comment on Erebus, but without these free minions Oak would be powerless.  Since the HoL nerf, hes no longer an immortal S.O.B. who can just hack away at you till you die.  His spirits also cannot attack a moving object.  So I have to disagree with that being the reason Oak is not balanced.  I agree with the OP that Oak is your balanced General character...one who really needs his monions to shine, starts off slow but has great end-game potential, and is a very good support character (Shield/ Surge/ Penitence).

Reply #9 Top

When you guys realize you don't have to win by killing Demigods you'll start to see why a minion Oak is so powerful.

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Reply #10 Top

Quoting _Shadow, reply 9
When you guys realize you don't have to win by killing Demigods you'll start to see why a minion Oak is so powerful.

Instead of being so vague why don't you explain how Oak is unbalanced?

Anyway, I don't see a problem with Regulus mines. I just interrupt it at close range and walk behind creep waves whenever possible so they set them off before I do.

Yetis and Shamblers definitely need buffs, not to mention better AI.

Finally, I think Erebus is fine as well. His DPS can get really high with minions but he's still fragile. The only problem is that it can be hard to get a kill on him with bat swarm, but I guess that's supposed to be one of his strong points.

 

Reply #11 Top

Quoting _Shadow, reply 9
When you guys realize you don't have to win by killing Demigods you'll start to see why a minion Oak is so powerful.

We do know that. Killing towers with a rush of minions/farming gold can rack up an easy win (assuming you rush to giants and get better items) but killing demigods boosts cash fast. Equal strats. Also an armoured up hero can crash towers just as fast.

Reply #12 Top

oaks  minions are sheer pwnage 10 spirits  maxed out on dmg  they can tear threw a demi in seconds and towers in seconds

Reply #13 Top

I think regulus is balanced (allthough very frustrating at times) but I think that most DGs in doubles become very powerfull. Ex 2 towerrooks, 2 spitting beasts or to healing sednas........... 

Reply #15 Top

QoT NEEDS a mute button, yes this would be OP, but it's needed

yes foreshadowed "Queen of the Trolls" needs to STFU.

Reply #16 Top

@si1foo #4

hmm if they disapear when he dies then he should be a generali really didn't understand why he wasn't a general


If he's a general, the towers should have 2 modes, mobile where they can't fire and rooted, where they do damage. Talk about pushing!

Reply #17 Top


Siege Idols: They can outrange towers, and while they are easy to deal with I think it might be a bit excessive to allow this.

Let me get this straight... you don't think siege units should be effective against buildings.

Reply #18 Top

mendon a problem with that is that how would they change them back and thought  would it be a button  like the summon tower is but that would fuck up ther nice interface

Reply #19 Top

Quoting _Shadow, reply 9
When you guys realize you don't have to win by killing Demigods you'll start to see why a minion Oak is so powerful.

Quoting si1foo, reply 12
oaks  minions are sheer pwnage 10 spirits  maxed out on dmg  they can tear threw a demi in seconds and towers in seconds

 

True, if played right and that is the way it should be.  But to get 10 spirits with crazy damage, an Oak player has to invest a lot of money for +minion damage gear and play it careful during early game.

As I've said, Oak is a very balanced general character.  He has a pretty slow early game, very good support mid-game, and a supreme end-game.  But hey, a UB with mage slayer and narmonth ring would have no problem feasting off Oak's minions...so please dont tell me hes over-powered, he can easily be beat by a decked out assassin demigod in a 1v1 anyday.

Reply #20 Top

Quoting Majorfalcon, reply 19

As I've said, Oak is a very balanced general character.  He has a pretty slow early game, very good support mid-game, and a supreme end-game.  But hey, a UB with mage slayer and narmonth ring would have no problem feasting off Oak's minions...so please dont tell me hes over-powered, he can easily be beat by a decked out assassin demigod in a 1v1 anyday.

lol.

Reply #21 Top

Quoting si1foo, reply 18
mendon a problem with that is that how would they change them back and thought  would it be a button  like the summon tower is but that would fuck up ther nice interface

 

If you order them to move, they will uproot and walk, then plant themselves automatically wherever they stop / you ordered them to move to.

Pretty unlikely, but amusing to imagine.