The three army types

from Elemental Forums

taking into consideration that in Elemental we will be able to create our own armies from the ground up, i can see these armies broken into three varients. now i'm not talking about whether these armies levels of balance between troop types but rather the overall tactical style of these armies.

I'll, more or less, break these into three types: the Elites, the Versatiles, and the Fodder. To help in illustrating my point i'll use the Starcraft's most basic units (the Protoss Zealot, the Terran Marine, and the Zergling) as examples

1.) Protoss Zealot (AKA Elite): Attack: 16 Hitpoints: 80 (plus 40 for plasma shield) Cost: 200 minerals (i think)

2.) Terran Marine (the versatile): Attack: 9(ranged) Hitpoints: 40 Cost: 100 minerals

3.) Zergling: Attack: 5 Hitpoints 35 Cost: 100 minerals (for two)

Naturally in a one on one fight (on open ground), the Zealot would easily defeat either the Marine and Zergling, while the Marine (taking his ranged attack into consideration) would suffer some damage from the Zergling before killing it.

Now lets say you have 1,000 minerals. You would gain either 5 Zealots, 10 Marines or 20 Zerglings. the Zealots as we know are tough and difficult to kill but sadly being an Elite force also means you wont have alot of them to spare, so using trickery and well planned manuevers to insure their survival rate. Marines, while not as effective as the Zealot on their own, you get more of them out on the field and, if you consintrate their fire, you could pin down a 5 man squad of Zealots and be on even footing with them. Zergling....what's there to talk about? their cheap, expendable and there's always a lot of them around. the only true power behind the Zergling is in the fact since you can build (four times more than Zealots and twice as many as the Marines) then the best tactic for them is to simply overwhelm the enemy with massive numbers.

The point is that, depending on your play style, your armies will either consist of Elite forces, highly flexible Versatile forces, a whole lot of Fodder or maybe even a combination of two or all three.

7,298 views 11 replies
Reply #1 from Elemental Forums Top

I don't think it would be three strict variants but a broad spectrum of everything in between.

Reply #2 from Elemental Forums Top

Brad mentioned something like this in an old dev journal somewhere. I think it's already in the game, complete with the "everything in between".

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Reply #3 from Elemental Forums Top

The ultimate elite army would be the essence hoarding chaneller with heroes... Mwahaha

Reply #4 from Elemental Forums Top

Actually,

The ultimate elite army would be the essence hoarding chaneller with heroes... Mwahaha

A single, all-powerful channeler is the ultimate elete.

Reply #5 from Elemental Forums Top

True.. .But that's not really an army at all is it? Lol

Reply #6 from Elemental Forums Top

So essentially this post is saying we cane either have a few powerful units, a moderate number of medium powered units, or a ton of weak units....OR various combinations of each.

Must be a slow news day. }:)   Sorry to be an ass, I just can't help it. #:(

Reply #7 from Elemental Forums Top

well, nothing is set in stone, but Denryu is right as to what i'm implying.

Take this historical fact, Xerxes the emperor of the persia had an army of roughly about 250,000 of poorly trained and poorly equiped troops who for the bulk carried spears and wicker shields. The Spartans at their hight of glory had about 10,000 fighting men armed to the teeth. Two totally different armies; One professionally trained, well equiped and men whose bravery went a tad beyond impetus and on other side an army of expendable conscripts. Both armies are effective at what they....kill people.

Oh, you are right Sarduk....These really aren't any strict guidelines as to how to build our armies. The terms Elite, Versatile and Fodder are just classic (quasi anyway) examples of the kind of armies we and other players will build. There are more than likely several different variants to be had....so why don't you guys give your thoughts on the kind of variants you'd make.

Now me personally, i would have a solid combination of all three. weak units used mostly to protect cities of minor value or those well secured from invasion and patrolling the road ways. mid-level troops defending the frontier and vital cities. And elite troops with the soul purpose of assaulting the enemy.

Reply #8 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Scoutdog, reply 4
... A single, all-powerful channeler is the ultimate elete.

Stephen Strong: Army of Me.

Reply #9 from Elemental Forums Top

There's other criteria for skill than sheer power/hit points ratio. Mobility is a tremendous concern as well. If I have a force of mostly cavalry archers and you only have a few archers or cavalry I could pick your force apart with near impunity no matter the quality of your infantry. I seem to recall the mongols doing that a lot. There's also the classic divide and conquer which can be done easily with mobile cavalry and can easily let a low quality cavalry force overwhelm parts of an elite infantry army. The holy grail of uber armies is of course elite mounted troops, but they can easily get swarmed if they don't take advantage of their power and mobility. Also don't forget attack power and durability are not linked, and it's entirely possible to make a striking unit that's very fragile and a tar pit with limited offensive capability for a hammer and anvil style army

Reply #10 from Elemental Forums Top

Goodmornng all,

I'm really a fan of the Rock paper scissors (lizzard, spock) solution to army sizes / troop strenghts.

Mobs beat extreamly well trained troops [by swarming them or just being in more places then the small elite can be at once]
small numbers of Trained troops beat large (but not swarmy) numbers of modestly trained troops,
and the middle group beat the swarm.


It works by limiting the number of troops a unit can reasonably take on at once/ or in a turn. 

an elite can kill 2-3 to one regular troops, but only 4-5 swarm troops, [unfortuenately there are 15 swarm troops so they get thier asses handed to them].

Lizard and Spock of course represent highly magic and highly trap baced defence's offences, [or mixed armies of the three. whatever]

the lizard and spock are from Big Bang Theory to those not in the know. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iapcKVn7DdY

Take care all.
Best wishes
Robbie Price

Reply #11 from Elemental Forums Top

Xthetenth...i think you may have slightly misinterpreted as to what i mean by Elites, Versatiles and Fodder. Now you are right about the Mongols being a formidable force of horse archers and lancers but there is a good reason why they were called the Golden Horde. The total size of their entire army consisted of about 13,000 to maybe 20,000 men...and about three horses per man (i think). Now compared to the armies of Xerxes (250,000) and Alexander the Great (40,000 to 50,000), the Mongols under the leadership of Genghis Khan conquered an empire twice the size of Alexander's with less then half as many men....Now that sounds Elite to me:thumbsup: .

And the attack, hitpoints of the Starcraft anology you mentioned was meant to enfesize (in a vague and in some cases inaccurate sort of way) the arbitary difference between the three army types. So here is a better translation:

1.) Elite Army: consists of Highly trained, highly well equiped fighting force with a fair number of specialist troops (heavy cavalry, horse archers, pikemen (depending on level of training) shock troopers, etc, etc). But because of the intensely highly quality of troops they tend to be obnoxiously expensive and thus fewer in number. Elite can either use the direct approach (the "see enemy, kill enemy" approach) or they can use trickery and cunning.

2.) Versatile Army: flexible and adaptable. forces tend be balanced with a less enfesiss on specialists. Numbers tend to be moderate and troop quality about mid-level.

3.) Fodder Army:....what's there to say? troops are cheaply trained (if at all) and poorly equiped (in some cases a pitch fork is it). their tactics are relatively simple; throw as many men at the enemy as possible to weaken, exhaust and eventually overwhelm by sheer weight of numbers.

P.S. sorry if i sounded like i was picking on you Xthetenth...just wanted to get my point accross.