Deceiver_0 Deceiver_0

Patch Stat Changes Forum [NEW TOPIC: Adjudicators 8/25/09]!!

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Patch Stat Changes Forum [NEW TOPIC: Adjudicators 8/25/09]!!

from Sins Forums

For Sins 1.18 and Entrenchment 1.04

This is a post that I will update regularly to give the DEVS a better idea of what people think should be done to stats in the next patch. This is ONLY for patches, no new ships or elaborate concepts for the next expansion. This is for dealing with peoples’ concerns about balance. If there’s a balance idea you have that’s not on here, post it and I’ll put it up for voting if it seems valid. I love the fact that ICO pays attention to the forums and what people suggest, I’d like to make it easier for them. The idea is to have all ideas posted straight forward and ranked so the DEVS don’t have to sift through pages and pages to find popular ideas. SP and MP players are both welcome to comment. Post yay or nay for any idea you like or dislike (be specific please) or say no fix needed. If you’d like I’ll also insert specific values you may come up with. Some votes will be taken from other threads.

* Topics shoud be considered independent of eachother, vote for each topic as if the Devs were to choose only 1. Yay for fixes that you think would work, nay for fixes that you think won't*

** Now there's an easier way to cast your vote, download the easy entry form, fill it out and then copy and paste your results!**

>> Download The Easy Entry Form <<

REFERENCES
Several members of the community have taken it upon themselves to run tests to prove imbalances and recommend possible fixes. I would Encourage everyone commenting here to read these and become more informed.
Raging Amish's Lums vs Enforcers                           JJs HC Tests                      JJs Illum Tests

Deceivers Subjugator thread                        Deceivers Cap Carrier thread         

RAGING AMISH's Balance MOD

Game Bugs

These need to be addressed before anything else. The following is a compiled list of all known game bugs. Thanks to Pawelo for helping me compile and test these. If you can think of any others that aren't on here leave a comment to let me know.

-Embargo Level 2 and 3 do not stop cargo ships.

-Phasic Trap Research level 2 does not do anything.

-Magnetize does not interrupt channeled abilities

-Disruptive Strikes does not work on pulse beams

-Allegiance through wormholes is flawed.

-Wrong Sound effects on: Anima Tempest, repair cloud, nanite armor, EMP blast

-Infocard errors: Dunov shield restore does not increase mitigation, labs do not speed up build time

-Akkan Colonize ability does not always spawn extractors at lvl2 and lvl3.

-Subverters Disrupt Shields can not target structures with shields

-Some musics and Orange Skybox are not used.

 

SOLANUS ADJUDICATORS

The adjudicator, while it can target multiple structures, just doesnt have the punch its TEC cousin the Ogrovs has and has difficulty handling tight clusters of structures supported by repair bays. Also, without a well functioning healing unit, the poor adjudicator simply cant live long enough in the throws of battle to make a huge difference. We've discussed the changes, now its time to get official votes on them.

     Buff the Adjudicator-
                         Change armor type?:

                              Yay-           JuleTron              Kitkun                           N3rull
                                               eoncommander

                              Nay-           Dargoon999         Warlord Mike

                         Reduce supply cost?:

                              Yay-           JuleTron              Kitkun                            Dargoon999
                                               Warlord Mike        Darvin3                         SivCorp
                                               eoncommander

                              Nay-           

                         Reduce number of firing banks to increase damage per target?:

                              Yay-            Warlord Mike        eoncommander

                              Nay-            Kitkun                  N3rull                            Dargoon999

                         Increase damage?:

                              Yay-            Warlord Mike         eoncommander

                              Nay-            Kitkun                  Dargoon999

                         Increase shields?:

                             Yay-            JuleTron                Kitkun                           eoncommander

                             Nay-            Dargoon999           Warlord Mike

      No Fix Needed-                    Ryat                      Extremor

MINES

These little critters were introduced in Entrenchment and have been seldom used. They are purely defensive, extremely expensive, and a huge gamble to put your money in. There's been much discussion on possible fixes, but now its time for an official vote, so here you go.

      Buff Mines
                        Increase damage?

                            Yay-              Juletron                Whiskey144                 SivCorp
                                                Extremor

                            Nay-              EadTaes               Raging Amish               Ovi_187
                                                Kitkun                  eoncommander

                        Increase damage radius?

                            Yay-             Top Vasari             Whiskey144                  EadTaes
                                               Warlord Mike          Ovi_187                        SivCorp
                                               Extremor                eoncommander

                            Nay-             Juletron                 N3rull                           Raging Amish
                                               Kitkun

                        Increase activation radius?

                            Yay-             Warlord Mike         eoncommander

                            Nay-             EadTaes                JuleTron                       N3rull
                                               Raging Amish         Ovi_187                       Kitkun
                                               Extremor

                        Increase mines per deployment?

                            Yay-             eoncommander

                            Nay-             EadTaes                N3rull                         Raging Amish
                                               Warlord Mike          Ovi_187                     Kitkun
                                               Extremor

                        Increase deployment spread?

                            Yay-           Warlord Mike            Extremor                    eoncommander

                            Nay-           Juletron                   EadTaes                     N3rull
                                             Raging Amish           Ovi_187                     Kitkun

                        Decrease cost?

                            Yay-           Juletron                   Mindseye(25%)           EadTaes(25%)
                                             Dargoon999             Whiskey144                N3rull(20%)
                                             Warlord Mike            Ovi_187                     Kitkun
                                             Extremor

                            Nay-           Raging Amish            eoncommander

                        Reduce build time for Proximity Mines(TEC)?

                            Yay-           Juletron                   Whiskey144                EadTaes
                                             Raging Amish           Warlord Mike               Ovi_187
                                             Kitkun                      Extremor

                            Nay-

                        Increase duration of Gravity Mines(Vasari)?
 
                            Yay-           Juletron                   N3rull                  Mindseye
                                             Ovi_187                   Kitkun                 Extremor

                            Nay-           EadTaes                  Raging Amish

                        Fix homming mines AI to return to original deployment location(Advent)?
 
                            Yay-           JuleTron                  EadTaes              N3rull
                                             Mindseye                 Warlord Mike       Ovi_187
                                             SivCorp                    Kitkun                Extremor
                                             eoncommander

                            Nay-           Raging Amish

                        Make Gravity Mines an upgrade to existing mines?

                            Yay-           N3rull                      Juletron               Dargoon999
                                             Ue-Carbon               Deceiver_0           Mindseye
                                             Kitkun                     Extremor
                                          

                            Nay-           EadTaes                  Raging Amish

      No fix needed-

SIEGE FRIGATES

Costing more than most Heavy Cruisers, one would expect siege frigates to be able to handle a simple task like bombing a planet to oblivion, but with their super thin and weak hulls they certainly aren't worth the cost, and with Entrenchments bombardment protection on starbases, siege frigates find themselves in the obsolete unit pile. Personally I think they should be tough as nails since all they do is bomb planets and cost loads of resources and precious supply. With a decent buff these units could be the terror they once were and possibly bring back some of the planetary defense tech that fell from use after their nerf. (planetary shielding anyone?)

      Buff Siege Frigates

                        Increase Hp/shields/armor?:
 
                              Yay-             Deceiver_0(Hp)     Volt_Cruelerz   Darvin3
                                                  Ryat                    EadTaes         Dargoon999(10%)
                                                  N3rull(+nerf)         Kitkun            eoncommander   


                              Nay-             Soasertsus         Cykur                Mindseye
                                                 Raging Amish      Ascension          Howdidudothat
                                                 Ovi_187              Sobric               Warlord Mike
                                                 Extremor

                        Change armor type (currently light)?:

                              Yay-             Deceiver_0(v. heavy)  Soasertsus(v. heavy)  Volt_Cruelerz(heavy/v.heavy)
                                                 EadTaes (heavy)        Dargoon999(heavy)    N3rull(heavy)
                                                 SivCorp                     Extremor(heavy)         eoncommander


                              Nay-             Darvin3              Cykur                Ryat
                                                 Mindseye            Raging Amish     Ascension
                                                 Howdidudothat     Ovi_187             Sobric
                                                 Warlord Mike       Kitkun
 
                        Decrease Resource cost?:

                              Yay-             Soasertsus        Darvin3               EadTaes
                                                  Howdidudothat  Sobric                 Extremor              


                              Nay-             Volt_Cruelerz      Cykur                 Ryat 
                                                 Dargoon999        Mindseye           Raging Amish
                                                 Ascension           Ovi_187             Warlord Mike
                                                 Kitkun

                        Decrease Supply Cost?:

                              Yay-            Soasertsus(6)     Darvin3               Cykur
                                                 Ryat(10)           EadTaes(10)        Dargoon999(10)
                                                 Mindseye          Howdidudothat      Raging Amish(12)
                                                 Ascension(12)   Ovi_187                mbaron888(8)
                                                 Sobric              Warlord Mike         SivCorp
                                                 Kitkun              eoncommander

                             
                              Nay-            Volt_Cruelerz     Extremor  

                        Increase Bombardment damage?:

                              Yay-            Volt_Cruelerz     Dargoon999(20%) Warlord Mike
                                                 Extremor

             
                              Nay-            Soasertsus         Darvin3               Cykur
                                                Ryat                  EadTaes              Mindseye
                                                Raging Amish     Ascension            Howdidudothat
                                                Ovi_187             Sobric                 SivCorp
                                                Kitkun                eoncommander


                        Make TEC Heavy Fallout Active (currently passive)?:

                              Yay-             Deceiver_0        Soasertsus            Volt_Cruelerz
                                                 Darvin3            Cykur                   Ryat
                                                 Dargoon999      N3rull                   Mindseye
                                                 Raging Amish    Ovi_187               Sobric
                                                 Warlord Mike     Kitkun


                              Nay-             EadTaes           Ascension             Howdidudothat

                        Reduce Heavy Fallout effect time (currently 6 minutes)?:

                              Yay-             Darvin3          Sobric                     Warlord Mike

                             
                              Nay-             Soasertsus       Volt_Cruelerz          Cykur
                                                 Ryat                EadTaes                 Dargoon999
                                                 Mindseye         Raging Amish          Ascension
                                                 Howdidudothat  Ovi_187                 Kitkun

                        Reduce Xp value (currently 65xp)?:

                              Yay-             Soasertsus       Darvin3(40)            Cykur
                                                 EadTaes(15)     Dargoon999(30)     Ovi_187
                                                 Kitkun


                              Nay-             Volt_Cruelerz    Ryat                     Mindseye
                                                 Raging Amish   Ascension              Howdidudothat
                                                 Sobric              Warlord Mike
                       
                        Apply fixes to siege militia?:

                              Yay-             Deceiver_0         Soasertsus              Volt_Cruelerz
                                                 Darvin3              EadTaes                 Dargoon999
                                                 Raging Amish     Ovi_187                  Sobric
                                                 Warlord Mike      Kitkun                    Extremor

                            
                              Nay-             Ryat                  Ascension              Howdidudothat             

                        Apply fixes to siege pirates?:

                              Yay-             Darvin3              EadTaes                 Dargoon999
                                                 Raging Amish      Ovi_187                 Warlord Mike
                                                 Kitkun                Extremor


                              Nay-             Soasertsus         Volt_Cruelerz           Ryat
                                                  Ascension          Howdidudothat         Sobric


      No Fix Needed-

 

SEREVUN OVERSEER

The overseer is a powerful, but seldom used ship due to it's current lack of usability. I'd recommend anyone planning on voting on this topic read a few of the replies on page 5, where Ascension and I debated some changes. I've also thrown in a few ideas to make overseers 'Jump Degradation' ability a little more potent for the 100AM and channeling it costs.

      Buff Serevun Overseers-
                       
                         Increase firing arc of abilities?:

                              Yay-              Deceiver_0           JuleTron                Volt_Cruelerz
                                                  Ascension            Soasertsus             milo896
                                                  Howdidudothat     lifekatana               N3rull
                                                  Mindseye            Cykur                     EadTaes
                                                  Raging Amish      Ovi_187                 Warlord Mike  
                                                  Kitkun                 Extremor                eoncommander

                              Nay-             Pbhead                Sobric
                      
                         Increase turn rate?:

                              Yay-              Deceiver_0           JuleTron                Volt_Cruelerz
                                                  Ascension            Soasertsus             milo896
                                                  Howdidudothat     lifekatana              N3rull
                                                  Mindseye            Pbhead                  Raging Amish 
                                                  Ovi_187              Warlord Mike          Kitkun
                                                  Extremor             eoncommander

                              Nay-             EadTaes              Sobric                    SivCorp

                         Make 'Reactive nanite armor' omnidirectional (360 degrees)?:

                              Yay-              Ascension           Raging Amish          Sobric
                                                  Warlord Mike       SivCorp                   Extremor

                              Nay-              Deceiver_0          Soasertsus              Darvin3                                              
                                                  milo896              Howdidudothat         lifekatana
                                                  N3rull                 Mindseye                 Pbhead
                                                  EadTaes             Ovi_187                   Kitkun
                                                  eoncommander

                         Increase reduction of jump speed for 'Jump Degradation'?:

                              Yay-              milo896              Howdidudothat         Mindseye
                                                  EadTaes              Ovi_187                  Sobric
                                                  Kitkun                 Extremor                 eoncommander

                              Nay-              Soasertsus          lifekatana               Pbhead
                                                  Raging Amish
 
                         Allow 'Jump Degradation' to do a damage % to incoming enemy vessels' hulls?:

                              Yay-              Deceiver_0 (5-10%)  Soasertsus(20%AM)  Darvin3
                                                  milo896              N3rull(speed reduction)  Kitkun
                                                  eoncommander

                              Nay-              Howdidudothat     lifekatana              Mindseye
                                                  Pbhead               EadTaes                 Raging Amish
                                                  Ovi_187              Sobric                     Extremor

                        Allow 'Jump Degradation' to disable passive regeneration?

                              Yay-              Raging Amish       Deceiver_0              Diplominator
                                                  Juletron                Sobric                    Extremor                 

                              Nay-              Ovi_187               Howdidudothat         Cykur
                                                  Kitkun

         No Fix Needed-


SKAROVAS ENFORCER

The relative weakness of the Enforcer has recently been brought to the forums attention (thanks JohnJames). With their higher resource cost, higher supply cost and more expensive upgrades, enforcers are unfortunately left in the dust by their counterparts. Many speculate that their extra ability (reintegration) is the cause for such a skewed balance, while others agree that reintegration lacks the power enforcers deserve. The following are some fixes that have been proposed. Personally, I think the Vasari should get a little more for what they pay for.

           Buff Skarovas Enforcers-

                         Decrease Resource Cost?:

                              Yay-              Ascension              EadTaes                  Sobric          

                              Nay-              Deceiver_0             Soasertsus               Volt_Cruelerz
                                                  lifekatana              Howdidudothat          Darvin3
                                                  Mindseye               Raging Amish            Ovi_187
                                                  Warlord Mike          Kitkun                      Extremor  
                                                  eoncommander      
               
                         Decrease Supply Cost?:

                              Yay-              Soasertsus             Sobric                       Extremor

                              Nay-              Deceiver_0             Volt_Cruelerz             lifekatana
                                                  Howdidudothat        Darvin3                     Mindseye
                                                  EadTaes                 Raging Amish            Ovi_187
                                                  Kitkun                    eoncommander

                         Increase hp/shields/armor?:

                              Yay-              Deceiver_0               Darvin3                   EadTaes(armor+1)
                                                  Raging Amish           SivCorp                   Kitkun
                                                  eoncommander
                           
                              Nay-              Volt_Cruelerz           Soasertsus               lifekatana
                                                  Howdidudothat         Mindseye                 Ovi_187
                                                  Sobric                     Extremor

                         Increase Damage?:

                              Yay-              Deceiver_0              Soasertsus                Ascension
                                                  JuleTron                  Darvin3                    Howdidudothat
                                                  Mindseye                 Cykur                      EadTaes(22)
                                                  Raging Amish(21.6)  Ovi_187                   Sobric
                                                  Warlord Mike           SivCorp                    Kitkun
                                                  eoncommander

                              Nay-              Volt_Cruelerz           lifekatana                Extremor         

                         Cheaper damage upgrades?:

                              Yay-              Deceiver_0              Volt_cruelerz              Top Vasari
                                                   Ascension               DesConnor                Raging Amish
                                                   N3rull                     lifekatana                 JuleTron 
                                                   Darvin3                  Howdidudothat           Mindseye
                                                   EadTaes                 Sobric                       Warlord Mike
                                                   SivCorp                  Extremor                   eoncommander     

                              Nay-              Soasertsus              Ovi_187                    Kitkun

                         Higher reintegration rate?:

                              Yay-              Deceiver_0              Volt_cruelerz              Top Vasari
                                                  Soasertsus              N3rull                        lifekatana
                                                  JuleTron                 Darvin3                      Howdidudothat
                                                  Ovi_187                  Sobric                        Kitkun

                              Nay-             Mindseye                 EadTaes                    Raging Amish 
                                                 Extremor

           No Fix Needed-                 Pbhead

DOMINA SUBJUGATORS

The domina has been an a lot of peoples (f spending money on that) list for sometime. I tested and observed the subjugator while I was examining carrier caps and wrote a report on them as well. Here's some fixes that have been proposed for the Domina as well as the Stilakus Subverter (whose destiny is quite intertwined with the domina). I'll be putting the Subverter question under the REPULSE section as it has to do more as a counter to it.

          Buff Domina Subjugators-

                         Increase firing arc of abilities?:

                                Yay-            Deceiver_0             Mindseye              Darvin3
                                                  Gugabalog             Cykur(heal only)    Raging Amish
                                                  Ovi_187                 Sobric                   Warlord Mike
                                                  SivCorp                  Kitkun                   eoncommander       

                                Nay-            EadTaes                lifekatana             Pbhead

                         Increase turn rate?:

                                Yay-            Deceiver_0             Darvin3                Gugabalog
                                                  Mindseye               Pbhead                Raging Amish
                                                  Ovi_187                 Sobric                  Warlord Mike
                                                  Kitkun                    eoncommander

                                Nay-            EadTaes                lifekatana

                         Make abilities AOE?:

                                Yay-            Warlord Mike          SivCorp                eoncommander

                                Nay-            Deceiver_0             EadTaes               Gugabalog    
                                                  Darvin3                  lifekatana             Mindseye
                                                  Pbhead                  Raging Amish        Ovi_187
                                                  Sobric                    Kitkun

                         Remove channeling from abilities?:

                               Yay-             EadTaes                Gugabalog             lifekatana
                                                  Raging Amish         Sobric                   Warlord Mike
                                                  Kitkun

                               Nay-             Deceiver_0             Darvin3                 Mindseye
                                                  Pbhead                  Ovi_187                SivCorp
                                                  eoncommander

                         Fix Targeting AI (on all abilities for all races) to prevent wasteful use?:

                               Yay-             Deceiver_0             Darvin3                  EadTaes
                                                  Gugabalog             Soasertsus             lifekatana
                                                  Mindseye               Pbhead                  Cykur
                                                  Raging Amish         Ovi_187                 Sobric
                                                  Warlord Mike          SivCorp                  Kitkun
                                                  eoncommander


                               Nay-             Pbhead

           No Fix Needed-

CARRIER CLASS CAPITAL SHIPS

I've noticed people use Carrier Caps generally for 1 ability, and not for the strikecraft and SC bonuses they offer. Weaker than most other classes, they are sparse and somewhat unthreatening on the battle field. Personally I think they should offer more benefit in the strike craft department than they do now. I've written a detailed report on them, and taken some of the proposed changes from it for this thread.

             Buff Carrier Caps-

                        Increase Initial Armor?

                                Yay-          Deceiver_0              Soasertsus            Ryat
                                                Howdidudothat         Gugabalog           Warlord Mike
                                                SivCorp                   Kitkun

                                Nay-          Darvin3                  -Ue_Carbon          mbaron888
                                                Pirate-Jack             EadTaes              DesConnor
                                                Swordsalmon          lifekatana            Pbhead
                                                Raging Amish         Ovi_187               Sobric
                                                Extremor                eoncommander

                        Increase Squadron Capacity?

                                Yay-          Deceiver_0 (see thread)  Soasertsus      Ryat
                                                -Ue_Carbon              ReadyMan           Howdidudothat
                                                mbaron888              Pirate-Jack          EadTaes
                                                DesConnor               Mindseye            Swordsalmon
                                                Gugabalog               N3rull                  lifekatana
                                                -aceca-                   Derek06               Ovi_187
                                                Sobric                     Warlord Mike        SivCorp
                                                Kitkun                     Extremor             eoncommander

                                Nay-          Darvin3                  Raging Amish          

                        Make SC buffs AOE?

                                Yay-          EadTaes               DesConnor               Swordsalmon
                                                Gugabalog            Derek06                   Raging Amish
                                                Sobric                   SivCorp                    Extremor
 
                                Nay-          Deceiver_0             Soasertsus              Ryat
                                                Darvin3                  -Ue_Carbon             Howdidudothat
                                                mbaron888            Pirate-Jack               lifekatana
                                                Pbhead                  Ovi_187                  Kitkun
                                                eoncommander


                        Increase additional drones(Adept Drone Anima)?

                                Yay-          Deceiver_0               Darvin3                 Howdidudothat
                                                 Mindseye                 Swordsalmon         Gugabalog
                                                 Derek06                  Raging Amish        Sobric 
                                                SivCorp                    Kitkun               

                                Nay-          Soasertsus               Ryat                     -Ue_Carbon
                                                 mbaron888              Pirate-Jack           EadTaes
                                                DesConnor                lifekatana            Pbhead
                                                Ovi_187                    Extremor             eoncommander

                        Re-work Scramble Bombers?

                                Yay-          Deceiver_0               Soasertsus            Ryat
                                                Darvin3                    -Ue_Carbon          Howdidudothat
                                                mbaron888              Pirate-Jack            EadTaes
                                                DesConnor               Mindseye              Swordsalmon   
                                                Gugabalog               N3rull                    lifekatana
                                                Pbhead                    Derek06               Raging Amish
                                                Ovi_187                   Sobric                   Warlord Mike
                                                SivCorp                    Kitkun                  Extremor
                                                eoncommander

                                Nay-        

           No Fix Needed-

LIGHT FRIGATES

Most agree that Light Frigates don't scale well. Being limited in their usefulness early game, and becoming almsot complete obsolete late game with Heavy Cruiser research. Many ideas have been thrown around to get light frigates back on the battle field.

            Buff Light Frigates-

                        Increase Damage?:

                                  Yay-         TheRezonator       Gugabalog               Darvin3
                                                  -Ue_carbon          Howdidudothat         JuleTron
                                                  Pirate-Jack          N3rull                      Ascension
                                                  Cykur                  Dargoon999(20%)   Raging Amish(Vasari: 12)
                                                  Ovi_187              SivCorp(10%)          

                                  Nay-         Volt_cruelerz         mbaron888              DesConnor
                                                 lifekatana             Pbhead                   EadTaes
                                                 Sobric                   Kitkun                     Extremor
                                                 eoncommander

                        Increase Damage bonus to heavy armor type?:

                                  Yay-         Deceiver_0           TheRezonator           Gugabalog
                                                 -Ue_carbon          JuleTron                  Pirate-Jack
                                                 Howdidudothat     mbaron888              DesConnor(Light)
                                                 Ascension            lifekatana                EadTaes
                                                 Dargoon999         Raging Amish(175%+)   Ovi_187
                                                 Sobric                  SivCorp(25%)           Kitkun
                                                 Extremor             eoncommander

                                  Nay-         Volt_cruelerz        Pbhead    
                   
                        Increase Hp/Shields/Armor?:

                                  Yay-          Deceiver_0(armor)      TheRezonator     Gugabalog
                                                  Darvin3                      JuleTron            Ascension
                                                  lifekatana                  Dargoon999(10%)  Ovi_187
                                                  Warlord Mike              eoncommander

                                  Nay-          Volt_cruelerz       Pirate-Jack               Howdidudothat
                                                   mbaron888        DesConnor               Pbhead
                                                   EadTaes            Raging Amish           Sobric
                                                   SivCorp             Kitkun                      Extremor
                  
                         Increase ability range?:

                                  Yay-          Deceiver_0          TheRezonator            Gugabalog
                                                  Volt_cruelerz       -Ue_carbon                JuleTron
                                                  Ascension           Eadtaes                     Dargoon999
                                                  Raging Amish      Ovi_187                    Sobric
                                                  Kitkun                Extremor                   eoncommander
 
                                  Nay-          Howdidudothat    mbaron888               DesConnor
                                                  lifekatana           Pbhead                   
                                                  
                        Increase firing arc?:

                                  Yay-          TheRezonator       Gugabalog              -Ue_carbon
                                                  JuleTron               Pirate-Jack               Howdidudothat
                                                  DesConnor            N3rull                      Ascension
                                                  Eadtaes                Raging Amish           Sobric
                                                  Warlord Mike        SivCorp                    Extremor

                                  Nay-          Volt_cruelerz         mbaron888               lifekatana
                                                  Pbhead                Dargoon999              Ovi_187
                                                  Kitkun                  eoncommander

                        Increase turn speed?:

                                  Yay-          Darvin3                 EadTaes                TheRezonator
                                                  Pirate-Jack             ReadyMan            Howdidudothat
                                                  mbaron888            DesConnor            Mindseye
                                                  N3rull                    Ascension              Pbhead
                                                  Eadtaes                 Dargoon999          Raging Amish
                                                  Ovi_187                 Sobric                  Warlord Mike
                                                  SivCorp                  Extremor              eoncommander

                                  Nay-         lifekatana              Kitkun

             Tweak Targeting AI to favor support cruisers?:

                                  Yay-         Deceiver_0           TheRezonator           Gugabalog
                                                 Darvin3               Volt_cruelerz             JuleTron
                                                 Pirate-Jack           mbaron888               DesConnor
                                                 N3rull                  Ascension                  lifekatana
                                                 Eadtaes               Dargoon999              Raging Amish
                                                 Ovi_187               Sobric                      Warlord Mike
                                                 SivCorp                Kitkun                     Extremor
                                                 eoncommander

                                  Nay-        Howdidudothat      Pbhead

             Nerf Counters-

                          Decrease LRF Damage?:
   
                                  Yay-          Proletari                Darvin3               Azrak_Navarion
                                                 ReadyMan             Howdidudothat     Mindseye
                                                 Ascension              Eadtaes               Dargoon999(10%)

                                  Nay-          Deceiver_0           Volt_cruelerz          Pirate-Jack
                                                  mbaron888          DesConnor             lifekatana
                                                  Pbhead               Raging Amish         Ovi_187
                                                  Sobric                 Warlord Mike           Kitkun
                                                  Extremor             eoncommander

                          Decrease LRF damage bonus to medium armor?

                                  Yay-         Deceiver_0(125%)  Ovi_187              Howdidudothat
                                                 Sobric                   eoncommander

                                  Nay-         N3rull                    Cykur                 Warlord Mike
                                                 Kitkun                   Extremor

                          Increase LRF resource cost?:

                                  Yay-         Extremor

                                  Nay-         Deceiver_0            Pirate-Jack          Howdidudothat
                                                 mbaron888            DesConnor         lifekatana
                                                 Pbhead                 Eadtaes              Dargoon999
                                                 Raging Amish        Ovi_187              Sobric
                                                 Warlord Mike         Kitkun                 eoncommander

             No Fix Needed-                Soasertsus              dresda

REPULSE:

Many have said repulse needs a fix. Personally I agree.


            Nerf Guardians-

                        Increase AM cost?:

                                    Yay-     Deceiver_0               Raging Amish         crashmatusow
                                                Ascension                 Pirate - Jack           Volt_cruelerz
                                                Tohron                     Darvin 3                 Top vasari
                                                mbaron888               Proletari                -Ue_carbon
                                                Major  Stress            Mindseye                Azrak_Navarion
                                                lbgsloan                   Gugabalog              Soasertsus
                                                Howdidudothat          JuleTron                 DesConnor
                                                lifekatana                -aceca-                   Derek06
                                                Cykur                      Ovi_187                  Sobric
                                                Warlord Mike            SivCorp                  Kitkun
                                                Extremor                  eoncommander   
                                              
                                    Nay-    dresda

                        Increase cooldown rate?

                                    Yay-      Raging Amish            Deceiver_0             Howdidudothat
                                                Kitkun                       Extremor               eoncommander

                                    Nay-      Ovi_187                  Juletron                   Sobric
                                                 Cykur

                        Decrease AOE?:

                                    Yay-     Gugabalog                 -Ue_carbon            DesConnor
                                               eoncommander

                                    Nay-     Pirate - Jack             Major  Stress         crashmatusow
                                               Mindseye                 Soasertsus              Howdidudothat
                                               dresda                     lifekatana              Pbhead
                                               Derek06                  Raging Amish         Ovi_187
                                               Sobric                     Warlord Mike          Kitkun
                                               Extremor    

                        Increase resource cost?:

                                    Yay-      Ascension                Volt_cruelerz           Sobric
                                                Extremor          

                                    Nay-      Pirate - Jack            Major  Stress           Soasertsus
                                                 Mindseye                 Gugabalog            Howdidudothat
                                                 dresda                    DesConnor             lifekatana
                                                 Pbhead                   Derek06                 Raging Amish
                                                Ovi_187                   Warlord Mike           Kitkun 
                                                eoncommander 

                         Cause damage to shields?:

                                    Yay-      EadTaes                  Volt_cruelerz        dresda

                                    Nay-      Major  Stress           Mindseye             Soasertsus
                                                Gugabalog              Howdidudothat      DesConnor
                                                lifekatana               Pbhead                Derek06
                                                Raging Amish         Ovi_187                Sobric
                                                Warlord Mike         Kitkun                    Extremor
                                                eoncommander 
 
             Buff Counters-

                        Increase LF ability range?:

                                    Yay-     Gugabalog                TheRezonator         Volt_cruelerz
                                                Derek06                   Raging Amish         Sobric
                                                SivCorp                    Kitkun                   Extremor
                                                eoncommander          

                                    Nay-     Pirate - Jack             Major  Stress          Soasertsus
                                               Mindseye                  DesConnor            lifekatana
                                               Pbhead                     Ovi_187


                        No affect to Cap Ships?:

                                    Yay-     Pirate - Jack             Major  Stress         Volt_cruelerz
                                               DesConnor               Cykur                   Warlord Mike
                                               SivCorp                    Kitkun                  Extremor
                                               eoncommander

                                    Nay-    Mindseye                  Gugabalog              Soasertsus   
                                              lifekatana                  Pbhead                  Derek06
                                              Raging Amish            Ovi_187                  Sobric

                         Increase Distortion Field (targeting) range?:

                                    Yay-     Deceiver_0               Soasertsus              Sobric
                                               Kitkun                      eoncommander

                                    Nay-     lifekatana                crashmatusow          Pbhead
                                               Raging Amish           Ovi_187                  Extremor
     


            No Fix Needed-

MISSILE BARRAGE:

This has been a heated issue for several months. In the most recent patch, the devs made the graphic unique (red missile exhaust?) and extended the duration while reducing dps. Was this enough?


            Nerf Missile Barrage-

                        Decrease total damage?:

                                    Yay-      Extremor

                                    Nay-      mbaron888             Gugabalog             TheRezonator
                                                 Volt_cruelerz          -Ue_carbon           Howdidudothat
                                                 DesConnor             Derek06                Raging Amish
                                                 Ovi_187                 Sobric                   Warlord Mike 

                        Increase AM cost?

                                    Yay-      Ascension               Ovi_187

                                    Nay-      mbaron888             Gugabalog            TheRezonator
                                                 Volt_cruelerz           -Ue_carbon           Howdidudothat
                                                 DesConnor              Derek06              Raging Amish
                                                 Sobric                     Warlord Mike       Extremor
                                      
                        Decrease AOE?

                                    Yay-      Tohron                     mbaron888           Howdidudothat
                                                 JuleTron                  DesConnor            Sobric

                                    Nay-      Gugabalog                TheRezonator       Volt_cruelerz
                                                 -Ue_carbon               Derek06               Raging Amish 
                                                Ovi_187                    Warlord Mike         Extremor                          

            Buff Counters-

                        Increase range on ability interrupts?:

                                    Yay-     Tohron                   TheRezonator          Raging Amish
                                               Ovi_187                  Sobric                     Extremor

                                    Nay-     Gugabalog              Volt_cruelerz            -Ue_carbon
                                                Howdidudothat        DesConnor

                         LF abilities can target caps?:

                                    Yay-      Gugabalog             TheRezonator       Sobric
                                                Warlord Mike

                                    Nay-      Volt_cruelerz         -Ue_carbon            Howdidudothat
                                                DesConnor             N3rull                   Derek06
                                                Raging Amish         Ovi_187               Extremor

                       Graphic/Audio Improvement?:
 
                                    Yay-     Eadtaes                   Deceiver_0            Volt_cruelerz
                                               Gugabalog               TheRezonator        -Ue_carbon
                                               Howdidudothat          N3rull                   lifekatana
                                               Derek06                   Cykur                   Raging Amish
                                               Ovi_187                   Sobric                   Warlord Mike
                                               SivCorp                   Kitkun                   Extremor
                                               eoncommander

                                     Nay-    DesConnor

            No Fix Needed-             Deceiver_0                EadTaes             Azrak_Navarion
                                              Major  Stress             Top vasari          Soasertsus
                                              ReadyMan                 lifekatana          SivCorp
                                               Kitkun                      eoncommander       


CARRIERS:

Extensively nerfed in the previous 2 patches, carriers have lost their place as a hard counter to long ranged frigates, as flak frigates can now destroy fighters much faster than they are built, and long ranged frigates can now hunt the carriers themselves down.


            Buff Carriers-

                        Decrease build penalty?:

                                    Yay-     Deceiver_0                Ascension            crashmatusow
                                               Pirate - Jack              mbaron888          Volt_cruelerz
                                               lbgsloan                    Gugabalog           Top vasari
                                               Soasertsus                Howdidudothat      JuleTron
                                               N3rull                        lifekatana            Derek06
                                               Cykur                       Ovi_187                Sobric
                                               Warlord Mike             SivCorp                Kitkun
                                               eoncommander 

                                    Nay-     DesConnor                Raging Amish       Extremor

                        Increase fighter HP?:

                                    Yay-    Ascension                  Mindseye              Azrak_Navarion
                                              Gugabalog                 Howdidudothat      Derek06
                                              Extremor

                                    Nay-    Pirate - Jack             mbaron888             Volt_cruelerz
                                              Soasertsus                DesConnor             lifekatana
                                              Raging Amish            Ovi_187                 Sobric
                                              Warlord Mike            SivCorp                  Kitkun 

                        Reduce movement penalty?:

                                    Yay-     Tohron                    Soasertsus              Raging Amish
                                               mbaron888              Gugabalog              Howdidudothat
                                               JuleTron                  ReadyMan               DesConnor
                                               Derek06                  Sobric                     SivCorp
                                               Extremor            

                                    Nay-     Pirate - Jack            crashmatusow         lifekatana
                                                Cykur                     Deceiver_0             Ovi_187
                                               Kitkun 

            Nerf Counters-

                        Reduce Flak rate of fire?:

                                   Yay-         EadTaes                Warlord Mike        eoncommander

                                   Nay-         Mindseye               Gugabalog           Volt_cruelerz
                                                  Soasertsus             Howdidudothat     DesConnor
                                                  lifekatana               Raging Amish      Ovi_187
                                                  Sobric                    Kitkun                  Extremor


            No Fix Needed-                 Major  Stress         -Ue_carbon            Pbhead

SCOUTS:

With the recent nerf to carriers, scouts have come to the forefront as a decent anti-lrf ship, and with their new found popularity some changes have been suggested.


            Nerf Scouts-

                        Reduce damage buff against light armor?:

                                    Yay-      Volt_cruelerz            Ovi_187

                                    Nay-      Deceiver_0               Ascension             Soasertsus
                                                Gugabalog                Howdidudothat      Derek06
                                                Raging Amish           Sobric                   Warlord Mike 
                                                Kitkun                     Extremor

                        Increase scout supply requirement?:

                                    Yay-

                                    Nay-      Ascension                Pirate - Jack         Volt_cruelerz
                                                Gugabalog               TheRezonator       Soasertsus
                                                 Howdidudothat         Derek06              Raging Amish
                                                 Ovi_187                  Sobric                  Warlord Mike 
                                                Kitkun                      Extremor
 

                        Increase resource cost?:

                                    Yay-

                                    Nay-      Ascension               Pirate - Jack           Volt_cruelerz
                                                Gugabalog              TheRezonator         Soasertsus
                                                 Howdidudothat        Derek06                 Raging Amish 
                                                 Ovi_187                 Sobric                     Warlord Mike 
                                                Kitkun                     Extremor
                                
            Buff Vasari Scouts-

                        Increase Hp/Shields?:

                                    Yay-     Deceiver_0              Raging Amish         Volt_cruelerz
                                                Ascension               Pirate - Jack             Soasertsus
                                                Mindseye                TheRezonator           Howdidudothat
                                                Derek06                 Sobric                      Warlord Mike
                                                SivCorp                  Kitkun                      Dargoon999
                                                Extremor

                                     Nay-   Gugabalog               Ovi_187

                        Increase damage?:

                                    Yay-      Ascension              Raging Amish           Volt_cruelerz
                                                Gugabalog             TheRezonator           Soasertsus
                                                Howdidudothat        Derek06                  Cykur(+.5dps)
                                                Ovi_187                 Sobric                      Warlord Mike
                                                SivCorp                  Kitkun                      Dargoon999
                                               
                                    Nay-      Extremor


            No Fix Needed-              EadTaes                 mbaron888            JuleTron
                                               Major  Stress          -Ue_carbon              ReadyMan
                                               DesConnor              lifekatana              Pbhead
                                               eoncommander

ILLUMINATORS:

The relative strength of illuminators has been under debate for some time, and many fixes have been proposed, here are a few, let me know if you’ve got others. I've done my own research, and have posted my findings.


            Nerf Illuminators-

                        Increase resource cost?:
 
                                    Yay-      Ascension               Volt_cruelerz           Ovi_187
                                                Pirate - Jack           EadTaes                 Top vasari
                                                lbgsloan                 Gugabalog              Azrak_Navarion
                                                Soasertsus              Howdidudothat        Derek06
                                                Extremor

                                     Nay-     Major  Stress          -Ue_carbon              lifekatana
                                                Raging Amish         Sobric                     Warlord Mike
                                                 Kitkun                  eoncommander
                                               

                        Adjust damage division between beams?:

                                    Yay-    Deceiver_0(33%)    mbaron888               -Ue_carbon
                                              Gugabalog             DesConnor                N3rull
                                               Ascension             Derek06                   Raging Amish(33%)
                                               Ovi_187               Sobric                       Warlord Mike
                                               eoncommander 

                                    Nay-    Pirate - Jack          Major  Stress             Soasertsus
                                              Howdidudothat       lifekatana                  Kitkun
                                              Extremor            

                        Decrease/adjust the HP/Shields?:

                                   Yay-      Pirate - Jack (hp only)        EadTaes          TheRezonator
                                               Ascension              Gugabalog                  -Ue_carbon
                                               Soasertsus             Howdidudothat            DesConnor
                                               -aceca-                  Derek06                      Cykur
                                               Raging Amish(Hp&Armor)  Ovi_187            Sobric 
                                               Warlord Mike           SivCorp                     Kitkun
                                               Extremor(450/500)  eoncommander

                                   Nay-      Major  Stress        Volt_cruelerz                Soasertsus
                                               lifekatana           

                        Increase supply requirement?:

                                  Yay-        DesConnor            Derek06               Kitkun 

                                  Nay-        Pirate - Jack          Major  Stress         Volt_cruelerz
                                                Gugabalog             Soasertsus            Howdidudothat
                                                lifekatana              Raging Amish        Ovi_187   
                                                Sobric                    Warlord Mike         Extremor 
                                                eoncommander        
 
                        Decrease Damage?:
 
                                  Yay-        EadTaes                Ascension               Soasertsus
                                                Major  Stress        Gugabalog                ReadyMan
                                                DesConnor(Caps only)  N3rull                lifekatana
                                                Ovi_187                Extremor          

                                  Nay-        Volt_cruelerz        -Ue_carbon            Howdidudothat
                                                Derek06              Raging Amish         Sobric
                                                Warlord Mike        Kitkun                    eoncommander

                                               

            No Fix Needed-             mbaron888           Mindseye               dresda
                                              Pbhead

More to come-

1,283,024 views 566 replies
Reply #101 from Sins Forums Top

Personally, I could see omnidirectionals as a something that could happen, but I would recommend nerfing it in something else... Say the amount healed?

Reply #102 from Sins Forums Top

katana. get your foot out of your mouth k? 

WE as in VASARI as in my MAIN RACE.

2nd i dont have to respond to your arguments because you arent someone im looking to change the mind of. im talking to deceiver who actually has some sort of intelligent argument instead of you over here trying to pick fights

my opinion isnt based on one thing. i look at EVERY SINGLE REPAIR ABILITY WE HAVE. our "mass disable ability" is actually "disabled" by the hoshiiko demo bot. there is no way in hell you would see a vasari spam out 15 subs because if they have 15 subs it doesnt matter how many they have. their fleet is still dead.

you sir need to get over yourself. i had no intention of talking to you and it seems i was correct in my assumption. you obviously want to grab some attention so why not go talk to siddy. im sure he has something for you. 

and fyi it doesnt matter if their repair ships are down for oh... 20 seconds because in the time you bring 1 of those ships down to 50 percent health they are all reactivated and that 50 percent health that 1 ship had steadily climbs back up to 100.

get over yourself please. this is a topic about balance to the game. go get your jollies somewhere else.

 

@ volt. i personally think a nerf isnt necessary because if the hoshiko ability lasts 13 seconds,, which is does. theyve already got 260 hull points back and my repair ability is still cooling down. their repair ability cools in 3-5 seconds. in the 15 seconds it takes my repair ability to recharge theyve healed 3 to 5 ships back up to 250+ health.

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Reply #103 from Sins Forums Top

Hmm, if I read your post I believe you are the one insulting me. I have never done so to you. And I too discuss about the game's balance, by joining a discussion about repair abilities. I have no intention of "fighting" whatsoever. I don't want to discuss something with someone who is insulting me. Now, let's go on with the discussion:

 

The sub can be be disabled by the demo bot, but you can do the exact same thing to him!  

(I deleted this part, because we already agree on this)

Perhaps the fact that both the repair and the disable abilities are on one TEC ship is the problem?

Reply #104 from Sins Forums Top

no bro. thats not what im saying. im saying i want omnidirectional ability. countless times ive lost a cap because my overseer was trying to execute a turn to use its nanite armor. omnidirectional ability is all im asking for. if you thought i was insulting you then you are mistaken but i hadnt even read your reply.

Reply #105 from Sins Forums Top

Ok, then I misunderstood you too. I thought you wanted to buff the Vasari repair rate AND make it omnidirectional. I apologise.

 

Reply #106 from Sins Forums Top

Ascension I hear your argument, and it is pretty solid

Here's where I see a problem, and I'll use Cap Ships as an example.

Let's say you have A Marza with MB quickly approaching your fleet, trailed by 10 hoshis. You're going to send every last bomber you have to take out the Marza before it gets to you. The hoshis start healing the Marza but they are limited cuz they can only cast a heal on it every 15 seconds, limiting the marzas Maximum heal rate during this time to 300 hp every 15 seconds. You could attack the hoshis, but they can heal each other too, just as fast.

Now Imagine the same scenario with say an Evacuator with Planet suck going after your last planet, trailed by 10 overseers. You send every last bomber you have at it. Currently you CAN do this with Vasari, you just have to make sure each ship is pointed right at the evacuator (and have your micro ready, because leaving it up to the autocast is probably not a good idea here) You'll run into problems currently if the Overseers are attacked, where the abilities directional qualities are a factor. If the ability was omnidirectional, good luck destroying that egg, but likelihood is it wont happen. Not when those 10 overseers can take the eggs HP from say 50 to 2550 in 10 seconds.

It's the stackability of nanite armor that worries me, nothing else. For most of your arguements about hoshis being lower tiered and tougher ships with a more useful second ability, cool down time, AM cost etc, I agree. But making it omnidirectional with its current stackability I feel will make it OP, especially when they're protecting Cap Ships.

I could go along with a faster turn rate, or a larger firing Arc (not completely omni), but I can't support a fully omnidirectional nanite armor because of its stackability.

BTW thanks for keeping this discussion civil (at least towards me)

 

 

Reply #107 from Sins Forums Top

but see man. the thing is that i may get 2550 hull points restored but for 15 seconds my cap is all yours. in tat 15 seconds its dead. end of story.

Reply #108 from Sins Forums Top

Which is why a faster turning rate/wider firing arc would work.  Good idea Deceiver

Reply #109 from Sins Forums Top

Gotta have a lot of bombers (or anything) to do that kind of damage in 15 seconds, where as only 10 overseers can heal it that amount. Add more Overseers and it just that much more damage you've got to dish in 15 seconds, where as adding more hoshis wont help at all. To the point where if you can't deal more than the targets Max hp in damage instantly, it won't die. See what im getting at? I think an increase in the abilities fire arc (~90 degrees) or a turn rate increase is right on the money, that way they get a boost in usability but are still burdened by having to turn and face (partially) their target, and can't just slap on 250hp where and whenever its needed.

Reply #110 from Sins Forums Top

my friend lets be real. in any situation if there are more than 10 overseers the persons essentially just delaying the inevitable. 15 x 7 = 135 fleet points. if you have that many taking up your fleet space you can pretty much safely assume you have more firepower. 

from your example you just told me you have enough bombers to do some massive damage to my cap. the cap still dies man. its just delaying the inevitable. you of all people know what ff does to a cap. omnidirectional ability would help to nerf this. i know you being an advent player will abuse ilums to the max just like any other advent would in such a situation. everyone knows if 50+ ilums ff on you like that you pretty much just lost the cap. and for vasari thats a game ender. if i can restore 250 points quickly. efficiently. i may survive to another day. everyone knows that a TEC ship can escape due to their high hull points and armor. advent have their high shielding. vasari is stuck in the middle with a mixture of both.

no one gets harmed out of this man. it just makes it so you have to balance your fleet a bit more to deal with my repair ships.

Reply #111 from Sins Forums Top

Making overseers turn faster or have a wider firing arc sounds very good.

 

Reply #112 from Sins Forums Top

Im resigned to think this is something we will never see eye to eye on unless its implemented. Theory only goes so far.

I guess in the mean time I'll run some tests on the overseer to see how it can be improved to function better, and when I post it up here, I'll include the omnidirectional topic so it can be put to a vote.

Reply #113 from Sins Forums Top

faster turning or wider firing arc is good and fine sure. but omnidirectionalness would truly make it far more realistic. really..the most advanced race in the game cant rotate a repair turret but has to rotate the entire ship? is this on par with ANY of the vasari abilities or weapons? we all know their ships can fire 360 degree. enforcers can fire 180 degrees in front of them. phase missiles can go ANYWHERE. pulse beams which are the lowest of the low can even rotate 45 degrees. i dont understand why omnidirectional abilities are so wrong..

 

oh btw.. the hoshikos heal every 3-5 seconds. for every 1 ship i heal theyve and still are healing 3 or 4 of them.

Reply #114 from Sins Forums Top

The argument that, should they be given omnidirectional casting, a small group of Overseers could keep any ship alive against any odds is quite valid.

It is the flawed slow damage calculation, terribly lagged autocast targetting, insanely slow turn rate of Overseers and oftentimes odd behavior* that really fouls up Overseers.
Right now, Overseers are good only if
- enemy dps is small (say, if he takes 10+ seconds to kill an Enforcer; then Overseers may manage to do something before it blows up)
- the enemy is focusing your Cap or Starbase.

* - odd behavior is:
1] In a fleet, they tend to try to keep their position in formation. So once they are issued a heal command, they will then turn back and fly to where they should be. Obviously, before they turn back towards their heal target, it is long dead.
2] After healing a target that is, say 45 degrees down from horizontal (if there's anything like that in space), they will try to level themselves after each cast. Then, when they have their cooldowns refreshed, they have to turn "down" again. Takes valuable time.

Reply #115 from Sins Forums Top

N3rull,

Thanks for your insight, but I couldn't draw a definite conclusion of your stances on the new topics from your reply, so I haven't put you up there yet.

Reply #116 from Sins Forums Top

Overseers:

yay

yay

nay

nay

yay and maybe ~20% antimatter loss

Reply #117 from Sins Forums Top

overseers yay for reduction in jump speed.

Reply #118 from Sins Forums Top

I like jump degradation damage

Reply #119 from Sins Forums Top

Enforcer:

  • nay
  • nay
  • yay
  • yay
  • yay
  • yay

Overseer:

yay to jump degredation dealing damage, nay to 360 degree heals.

 

 

I don't know why we're talking about the Overseer when the subverter hasn't yet been discussed.  Definitely the weaker of Vasari's two support cruisers.

Reply #120 from Sins Forums Top

Overseers' RNA needs no buffs at all, and in particular not 360* casting. That would be quite OP, for the reasons already stated here (ability to totally void FF advantage). Increasing the firing arc or turn rate would be an ok idea, but both shouldn't be done. RNA is plenty useful/powerful as is.

I could stand to see the other two abilities buffed though. I never bother researching them, as they currently stand.

 

Overseers:

yay/nay

nay/yay

(first two mutually exclusive)

nay

yay

yay (5 - 10% hull dmg sounds fine. Other slight penalty could be antimatter reduction, or temporary speed/acceleration penalties.)

 

Reply #121 from Sins Forums Top

Enforcer: First three - Nays.  Last three - Yays.

Overseer: Y - Y - N - Y - N

Reply #122 from Sins Forums Top

Definitely the weaker of Vasari's two support cruisers.

I disagree with you there. I usually go for subverters before overseers. I've had little problems with the subverters (other than the activation range of distortion field being shorter than the AOE of repulsion). Their first ability, while weak, synergizes well with Vasari SC, and with good micro of SC, it can be turned into a weaker version of designate target. The targeting Ai for that ability, in my experience, functions rather well. Distortion field is still awesome, and can tear apart advent batteballs (that aren't using repulse, otherwise their pretty useless as they'll just bounce at the edge of the repulse and become easy targets for illums, destras and SC). Targeting Ai for distortion field isn't amazing, but against human players I still trust it to hit near the area I need it. What I do to micro distortion field is have auto cast off to begin with, and then turn it on in groups of 2 or 3 every 15-20 seconds. Then I hit stop so they won't wait until whatever theyre attacking is dead before using distortion field. Sometimes they'll cast on the same unit, but I don't mind as often it will disable units that have entered the range of the field after the first has been cast.

I really think tweaking the enforcer and overseer will give Vasari back some of that late game power they lost in the the nerf of RA.

Plus making the overseer more effective will enhance the power of subverters by giving them more life, and allowing them to live longer (as they are Prime targets for anyone encountering them).

Oh and you know what else works great? Using the Skirantra's replicate forces on Subverters. I did it once and it worked Wonders.

The only thing Subverters need is to be able to outrange repulse IMO. I put that topic up for a vote underneath Repulse.

Reply #123 from Sins Forums Top

(first two mutually exclusive)

All topics ARE and should be considered mutually exclusive. This is more of a Poll to show popularity of balance ideas, not necessarily "if A then not B, but defintely C if not A" etc. The devs are I'm sure aware that each topic is stand alone and do not necessarily come with the stipulations of and/or, as I'm sure they have the capacity to decide (and is ultimately their decision of) whats too much or too little.

Perhaps I'll make that more clear next time I update.

Reply #124 from Sins Forums Top

Darvin why would we talk about the subverter? its still arguable the most powerful support cruiser in the game whether it can outrange repulse or not...

Reply #125 from Sins Forums Top

Does the Overseer's passive phase jump scanning ability do anything if you have the third tier of phase jump detection (the eight-lab one that lets you see everything that jumps anywhere)? If not...that might be worth looking at. I'm not a fan of abilities that become totally worthless later on, particularly since the phase scanning thing is pretty expensive to begin with.