Ways to improve existing spells

from Elemental Forums

While there is a lot of discussion about how to get new spells and what spells should be like, I haven't seen anything about how spells could be improved once you have them.
I can think of two ways: research or 'leveling' them up through use.


I don't think research would be a good idea because it would prevent you from getting new spells.  The upgrade to an exsiting spell would have to be large to delay getting a new spell.


The second way would be very interesting as it could be implemented several ways.


The most basic way is for the spell to 'level up' after a certain amount of uses.  There could also be an option to pay the casting cost and have it count as a use even if the spell is not used(say improving a battle spell while you don't have anyone to fight).  This would basically be practicing the spell.


The harder way to implement it would be for the spell to gain XP based on how it is used.  Using it to kill a unit would give more XP than just damaging it.  Trying to deal the killing blow on a unit with a spell could become a mini-game of sorts if you want the most XP.

Next is the question of how a spell would be improved when it 'levels up.'
The most basic way would be giving it a fixed % percentage increase in what is does(say damage for combat spells and duration for temporary buff spells).


The more complicated(and I think better way) would be having the player decided what to improve about the spell.  A spell could be made cheaper to cast or deal more damage.  The % of the bonuses could increase based the level the spell is.  For example: early on it could be a 1% increase in damage, at a much higher level it could be a 5% increase in damage.
Every certain amount of levels there should be a major choice that has to be made.  An example would be a % increase in damage of all spells that same the same element as the spell that leveled up or a decrease in the cost to research spells with the same element.


At very high levels(or maximum level if there is a level cap on spell level), there could be a game changing decision to be made about the spell.  An example is deciding bewteen the ability to cast the spell for free, or the ability to 'multi-cast' it(the spell is cast twice every time you use it).  The idea is for this game changer to require so many levels to get it would be very rare to get even in long games.

I think being able to upgrade existing spells would add a lot of replay value to the game.  You could go for cheap spells if you have a game with low magic or powerful spells if you have plenty of magic.

4,654 views 4 replies
Reply #1 from Elemental Forums Top

I kind of like the idea of having a magic skill associated with each element. You could start the game as a faction that was strong on earth spells, but if you keep throwing the fireballs and other fire based spells, your skill develops in the fire skill, and the skill affected either spell cast cost or damage for any spell in that school.

Their could be cross-discipline spells that require a skill level in multiple schools in order to be able to research them. There could even be a separate skill for your ability to cast "mixed discipline" spells.

This could allow for a very dynamic tech tree. Instead of your tech tree being determined at the start of the game based on the faction that you lead, the tech tree can evolve based on both the spells you cast as well as pure research. In other words, I think that research should also affect skill. So both casting and studying water magic could make you really advance quickly up the water "tech tree", or casting a lot of earth while studying life would give slower advancement in each, but you may also have some spells become available for research that are a combination of earth and life magic.

Reply #2 from Elemental Forums Top

I love upgrading spells.   Especially when it comes down to things  like direct damage spells or certain enchantment spells that you really don't need duplicates (you have an AoE burst of direct damage, and another one that is higher level, more area, and more damage.  What is the point of the other?)

 

Denryu's idea Kinda reminds me of the "eagle eye" from HoMM.  You could learn spells from others, but had to have the level to use it.  

One thing I like, is it would encourage conflict (You would want to attack countries with a lot of magic might in hopes of taking part of it. )   It could become a risky game of bluffing (you want to appear to have weaker military than you really do, and stronger magic than you really do).   

The Political Machine 2024
Reply #3 from Elemental Forums Top

I actually don't want to upgrade spells. Rather, I want spells to have their effects (could be one, could be many) and their associated base parameters including mana and/or essence. Yes, I want each effect to have its own base cost. And when casting the spell, I want to be able to vary how much mana/essence to invest in each individual effect.

So here's an example:

Spell: Fireball
Effect: Direct Damage (5) - Cost: 5 Mana
Effect: AoE (0) - Cost: 0 Mana

So assume those are the effects of the fireball spell (ideally there would be more, like a DoT burn) but let's keep it simple. So by default, Fireball deals 5 damage to its target, for a cost of 5 mana. However, you could choose to use 5 more mana (let's say) for the Fireball to gain an AoE range of 1 (possibly doing less damage to the surrounding targets, more to the center), or use 1 more mana to deal 1 more damage. Or use 1 less mana to deal 1 less damage, etc.

That said I also want spell effectiveness and cost to depend on the channeler's proficiency in the relevant school(s) of magic - so a talented Fire Channeler's Fireball would do more damage over a greater range than an equal-cost fireball of a Channeler with little proficiency in Fire magic. Proficiency in a school could even set min/max values for how far away from the base parameters you can go.

Reply #4 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting pigeonpigeon, reply 3
I actually don't want to upgrade spells. Rather, I want spells to have their effects (could be one, could be many) and their associated base parameters including mana and/or essence. Yes, I want each effect to have its own base cost. And when casting the spell, I want to be able to vary how much mana/essence to invest in each individual effect.

So here's an example:

Spell: Fireball
Effect: Direct Damage (5) - Cost: 5 Mana
Effect: AoE (0) - Cost: 0 Mana

So assume those are the effects of the fireball spell (ideally there would be more, like a DoT burn) but let's keep it simple. So by default, Fireball deals 5 damage to its target, for a cost of 5 mana. However, you could choose to use 5 more mana (let's say) for the Fireball to gain an AoE range of 1 (possibly doing less damage to the surrounding targets, more to the center), or use 1 more mana to deal 1 more damage. Or use 1 less mana to deal 1 less damage, etc.

That said I also want spell effectiveness and cost to depend on the channeler's proficiency in the relevant school(s) of magic - so a talented Fire Channeler's Fireball would do more damage over a greater range than an equal-cost fireball of a Channeler with little proficiency in Fire magic. Proficiency in a school could even set min/max values for how far away from the base parameters you can go.

YES