Master of Magic 2 = Elemental ?

 

I started noticing Elemental after I heard that Stardock was looking into developing a sequel to one of my most favorite game - Master of Magic. Apparently they didn't get the rights to the name and so chose to make their own thing.

I keep hearing that it's very similar to MoM, although nothing of what I have seen so far in the journals or the website seems to affirm that statement.

Ok, Elemantal has magic and you're able to master it. But apart from that ?

Maybe someone can help me understand how Elemental is really MoM 2. To make that easy I'll post some of the features that made MoM so interesting.

 

1. The Archmage

At the beginning you create (or select) your alter ego, a powerful archmage. You do this by spending a certain amount of "picks" which you can use to "buy" certain things:

* Spellbooks - Every spellbook you take raises the starting selection of spells you can pick. The more spellbooks of one color you have, the more spells you can take and the more powerful spells (common,uncommon, rare) you can pick. If you choose to spend all picks on spellbooks of one color, you even start with one rare spell, which can be very strong even though your magic infrastructure won't easily support it (i.e. costs much mana).

* Traits - Instead of spellbooks you can choose to pick abilities that noticably influence nearly all game mechanics. Warlords start with experienced troops and can promote them one level higher than all other archmages, while channelers pay less mana upkeep for persistent enchantments and have an easier time casting spells away from their home capital. Artificers have a much easier time producing artifacts (very powerful feature) and can freely transform gold to mana and back again, while Myrrans even start in a different dimension, allowing you to choose a starting race not available to others.

* Race - You get to choose your starting race, each of which is notably different. Among those races are Humans, Elves, Lizardmen, Klackons, Halfings (all fear the almighty adamantium slingers), Nomads and others. Myrran archmages also get to choose from Dwarves, Dragonians (who indeed fly and breathe fire), Trolls (regenerate in combat and resurrect from the dead for free), Beastmen, Dark Elves (provide a large mana boost per round and every single troop has a magic range attack) and probably some race I have forgotten.

 

The possible combinations are mind staggering and are more diverse than in any game I have encountered ever. Some examples:

* Pick Alchemist and Warlord and all troops start more experienced and are equipped with magic weapons - which normally requires a very expensive building.

* Pick Artificer and Charismatic and produce cheap artifacts for your heroes or sell them immediatly for profit. use that gold either for development or transform it into mana, to create more powerful artifacts.

* Pick only spellbooks of one color and choose High Elves as starting race. You can start with an epic spell and can even afford it due to the elves' mana bonus.

 

2. The empire

You can either build settlers and found new cities wherever you like, or you can simply take neutral towns or those of other archmages. You do both, usually. Inside a city you can either produce troops or buildings, while the more powerful troops require the more expensive buildings. It's really quite like civilization ... you even have to produce food to make your people increase in numbers faster. And the terrain influences how strong your productivity or food production is. Buildings also have additional effects, like extra food through the farmers market or increased research through libraries. There is no tech tree or any kind of research in respect to buildings/units.

Some buildings or units can't be build - they have to be created by magic, like the summoning circle, which in turn determines where your summoned units appear.

3. Troops

Each troop is made up of individual units. Even though the names may be the same, their stats and composition are different, depending on race. Troll swordsmen are immensly strong, but only have 4 individual swordsman in a unit, while the wimpy halflings squeeze 8 or 10 fighters in a single swordsmen unit. If one troll dies, the unit only has 3/4 of it's starting strength. Nevertheless, trolls usually win against halflings.

Some special troops are Heroes, which are single unit troops and are very strong on their own. They grow even stronger the more experience they gain (which is true for every unit, but more so for heroes). Heroes also can equip items - found, bought or made - which can increase their performance drastically. Some units even have the ability to cast spells. Which spells depends on the heroe AND the spell selection of the controlling archmage, because you kindly share your knowledge with arcane heroes.

The regular troops only increase in strength through experience or magic buffs. No equipment for them. However, cities in possession of an alchemists guild and/or located next to rare metals like mithril or adamantium (only found in the Myrror dimension) can produce troops with better combat values (no extra cost).

4. Magic

Spells are seperated into different domains - death, life, nature, chaos and sorcery. Or, if you know Magic The Gathering: Black, White, Green, Red, Blue.

You get your starting spells through the initial spellbook picks ... the rest you have to research. And research costs ... magic. Like gold, you get a steady income of mana, which you can either invest in research or store in your mana pool. And you can research ANY spell in time, provided you have at least one spellbook of that domain.

You, the archmage, can cast spells. You can summon troops in your summoning circle, you can fireball a troop on the overland map, weakening them enough to kill them with your nearby armies. You can increase food output or productivity of a city or cripple that of your enemies. You can change the lay of the land, turn deserts into grassland or silver deposits into mithril.

But the farther away you aim your spell, the more mana you have to pay ... unless you are a channeler, of course.

But even better, when tactical combat starts, you are not limited to moving troops ... some spells only work in combat mode, some on the overland map ... and some in both modes, like the fireball. And casting spells is expensive, so you have to hold some mana in reserve to influence a battle with your powers. Arcane heroes on the other hand have their own mana pool ... and if they have access to the same spell domain as you, then they can cast those spells even if it is not in their spellbook usually. And again, channelers have an easier time casting spells far away from home.


That should be enough for an overview.

As you should see, the possible playing styles are legion. You can aim for certain spells in combination with certain troops only produced by a certain race. Or combine traits for increased effect. Specialize in one ranch of magic or diversify. Some races benefit from certain picks ... and rush strategies only work with a certain combination of spells and race.

 

And so the question is: What does Elemental have in common with all of the above ?

 

51,060 views 49 replies
Reply #1 Top

yay!    But who is this?   I'm not familar with this person being a dev.       And it doesn't sound like one.    Who are you?

 

I personally love master of magic.   Like, touch myself love.   I don't mind the spells and such changing, I just hope it 'feels' similar in the end.  (and my feedback to betas and such is going to be to try to push it in that direction)

Reply #3 Top

Before we knew the name (Elemental), we all used to jokingly call it the not-MoM. A long long time ago (but in a nearby galaxy), Stardock wanted to buy rights to MoM to make a sequel, but rumor has it whoever's lawyers (Atari was it that published MoM?) killed the deal. So Stardock said "Well, screw that. We'll just make our own then!".

So yes, it's definitely influenced by Master of Magic, but it's not-MoM :P

Reply #4 Top

micropose published MoM, but when micropose died, their publishing rights were broken up between companies.   Atari got part of MoM

Reply #5 Top

Quoting Annatar11, reply 3
Before we knew the name (Elemental), we all used to jokingly call it the not-MoM. A long long time ago (but in a nearby galaxy), Stardock wanted to buy rights to MoM to make a sequel, but rumor has it whoever's lawyers (Atari was it that published MoM?) killed the deal. So Stardock said "Well, screw that. We'll just make our own then!".

So yes, it's definitely influenced by Master of Magic, but it's not-MoM

so i heard, but Frogboy assured me it's like MoM. "Very similar."

Wouldn't go into details, though. :)

Reply #6 Top

 
Maybe someone can help me understand how Elemental is really MoM 2. [...]

And so the question is: What does Elemental have in common with all of the above ? 
To the first part the answer is simple: it's not and it doesn't pretend to be. To the second... er.. whatever the developer diaries say because right now, we don't even have enough real information and no one is playing the alpha (which is the same as not enough info XD ).

Reply #7 Top

I would say it may be the "spiritual successor" to MoM, but there is going to be so much missing from what I would expect from MoM2, as well as so much going in a completely new and exciting direction...as I have said before, I came here looking for MoM2, but my expectations have gone up since I got here.

Reply #8 Top

Well I think the point is that Elemental is supposed to be the spiritual heir as opposed to the direct descendant of MoM.  I think they want to capture all of the same gameplay styles that MoM had and capture the same audience that has been waiting for a sequel forever.  That being said, I don't think there's even close to enough details yet to say whats similar.  No doubt information will continue to flow, especially once alpha starts.

Reply #9 Top

I believe Elemental is to Master of Magic what Supreme Commander is to Total Annihilation. Or at least that is how I view the situation, having never played MOM however this argument is irrelevant to me. (I did love TA and Supcom though.)

Reply #10 Top

I hope not...  Supcom is rather inferior to TA in a few areas. :)

Reply #11 Top

Quoting psychoak, reply 10
I hope not...  Supcom is rather inferior to TA in a few areas.

yeah, but it was superior in a few other areas.

 

I'm fairly sure the point is that they are not going to be the same.   They will just have the hopes of giving the players the same satisfaction.

Reply #12 Top

Quoting landisaurus, reply 11



Quoting psychoak,
reply 10
I hope not...  Supcom is rather inferior to TA in a few areas.


yeah, but it was superior in a few other areas.

 

I'm fairly sure the point is that they are not going to be the same.   They will just have the hopes of giving the players the same satisfaction.

The same late nights, the same sick days taken because "1 more turn" became "200 more turns" (possibly even a new game started), the same upset spouses, the same sleep deprivation.....

Reply #13 Top

Basically Elemental will be as close to a MoM sequel as will ever be releaed.  In a way its partly a good thing that it is 'not MoM', because it means that they are not constrained by having to make it a sequel.  If they were actually making MoM2 then there would be lots of fans saying 'this was in the original thus it must be in the sequel'.  SD have a lot more freedom making a speperate title (while taking major influences from MoM of course).

Reply #14 Top

Any game that creates you that need of a "Just one more turn" and makes you lose too many hours of healthy sleep, cannot be bad (for your fun and entertaiment).

Reply #15 Top

Elemental != MoM2

So far it looks like anyone who wants MoM2 will enjoy Elemental a lot, just don't expect it to be MoM2.

Sammual

Reply #16 Top

Quoting Sammual, reply 15
Elemental != MoM2

So far it looks like anyone who wants MoM2 will enjoy Elemental a lot, just don't expect it to be MoM2.

Sammual

Yeah, which is basically what I tried to say in my post.

It will obviously have many similarities, just treat it as its own game in the same genre, not a sequel to MoM ;)

Reply #17 Top

I've been wondering the exact same thing. I too thought it was going to be like Total Annihilation --> Supreme Commander

or System Shock 2 --> Bioshock but now I don't know....I will take Brads word for it though.

Reply #18 Top

MoM is my favorite game of all time, my hope has always been that someone would slap a new coat of paint on it, improve the AI a bit, and re release a "MoM 2".  Looks like elemental will be much more then that, the fact that they seem to be true fans of the original sets me at ease though.  Ok, back to my dosbox MoM game

:grin:

Reply #19 Top

Master of Magic is the bar.  5 stars out of 5.

I hope Elemental meets and exceeds that bar.

Elemental is supposed to be extremely mod-able.  So for the MoM aficionados out there, we could MoM-mod it!

I'd also be interested in seeing a Hammer of the Gods mod for Elemental.

If you are not familiar with Hammer of the Gods, it was good, but not MoM good.  4 stars out of 5.  Worth playing, even though less satisfying.

Reply #20 Top

I notice that no one mentions which parts of Elemental are supposed to be like MoM. Or what exactly makes Elemental a spiritual successor to MoM.

Just some details I picked up that make me doubt any connection between the two:

  1. MoM has 14 races. Elemental has 2.
  2. MoM has several race specific units for every race and common units (like spearmen) benefit from race statistics. Elemental let's you equip some grunt with equipment to build whatever unit you want.
  3. MoM has a very customizable leader. Elemental has factions, whatever they are.

If I'd have to name a game that comes close to provide as much fun of the kind MoM delivered, then I'd name Fall from Heaven 2 - a mod for Civilization 4. Many different races, quite different leaders (although not customizable), magic, heroes, dungeons, spell domains and spells ... and all the stuff that made Civ4 so great. Not very much like MoM, true, but a similar experience ... and closer to MoM than Elemental is.

Reply #21 Top

No one has said the leaders wont be customizable.

 

It's a turn based fantasy 4x with tactical combat, city building, lairs around the map, heroes to recruit, and a god-like avatar of death for a leader that gains massive power as the game progresses by capturing sources of magic and learning new powers.

 

Seems pretty similar to MoM from that perspective.

Reply #22 Top

i never played MoM, but from what I've read about it , it was a very epic game for its time.

Reply #23 Top

  it looks so good..tho i have not tried this.

 

 

 

 

 

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Reply #24 Top

Besides you can design your own race and how they look and I think you'll also design your faction leader. We all know these should be pretty fun options..just play GC2! I can spend a long time building ships in that thing.

Reply #25 Top

Quoting Aroddo, reply 20
Just some details I picked up that make me doubt any connection between the two:


MoM has 14 races. Elemental has 2.
MoM has several race specific units for every race and common units (like spearmen) benefit from race statistics. Elemental let's you equip some grunt with equipment to build whatever unit you want.

MoM has a very customizable leader. Elemental has factions, whatever they are.

Elemental has 2 races, 12 factions. Just because they're 2 different races doesn't mean they can't be incredible varied anyways (though admittedly, I doubt any of them will fly or breathe fire).

There would be no point to having 12 different factions if each faction didn't have significant differences - and thus I very much expect to see faction-specific abilities, buildings, and equipment (which adds up to faction-specific units).

In Elemental, you start out with one and only one unit - your Channeler (aka your leader). I am 148% positive that we'll be able to customize our Channelers to at least the same level as in MoM.


Quoting Aroddo, reply 20
If I'd have to name a game that comes close to provide as much fun of the kind MoM delivered, then I'd name Fall from Heaven 2 - a mod for Civilization 4. Many different races, quite different leaders (although not customizable), magic, heroes, dungeons, spell domains and spells ... and all the stuff that made Civ4 so great. Not very much like MoM, true, but a similar experience ... and closer to MoM than Elemental is.

Elemental will have many factions (if not races), customizable leaders, magic, heroes, dungeons, spell domains and spells... So how does that make FfH2 any closer to MoM than Elemental? The only reason you can say that at all is that you've played FfH2 but none of us really know exactly what Elemental will be.

That's the reason nobody has told you, "Elemental will be like MoM because it has ________." We only know little bits and pieces - some things are fairly definitive (we know there will be dungeons, spell domains, etc) but that's all we know. We don't know how the dungeons will be handled, or the spell domains, or the heroes... We don't know much for sure, so you aren't going to get any more than that.