Fighters/bombers got so many countters.

Kol, flak flak flak, halcyon, and kotul and even the vasari hangarbays/tec and what not...

If enemy got carrier heavy fleet and you refuse to adapt to it, you deserve the spanking you get.

Its the rule with any one flavor fleet.

Also, for the scouts against illus, the problem is that malice and 3 banks + some flak in there will still rape the scout fleet...

Also, only the tec scouts are desirable to rush for in real game, as they can fuck up your buildings in eye blink, if you deside to upgrade them to ALLAH AKBAR mode..

ALLAH AKBAR well, it is the Advent seeker vessel that offers to research the martyrdom ability. Tec scouts are rather covert ops banging up buildings behind enemy lines (something I should use more often instead of building caps *g*).

...

captain obvios

I would like to remind people that advent doesnt really have an end game sw or ability that does damage like the other 2.Really their sw sucks bad and its really only devastating ability is the 25% damage boost to the fleet.It almost does nothing on its own.Just like most of advents ability it augments fleets.If you keep weakening their fleet to be on par with others then advent will not compete late game.Advents only end game ability is its fleet.Without it you cant compete with novs and tecs eco.I also think that vas have superior eco if they have neutrals.Vas ships are geared for killing advent also the kostura is a direct counter to any advent fleet.

Advent is fleet dependant.Vas can make hit and run tactics very effective with the egg and their planet killing caps.If you make advent fleet split up easy pickings.An ilum heavy fleet will get toasted easily by a sb.Throw a sb up in their path and they will have to get bombers.Vas can also ruish and sneak in sb on advent worlds faster then you can respond especially early game.Vas can snipe caps in seconds and seriously injure an advent player.

There is plenty of scout strategies to deal with advent ilums.While I dont like scouts being a combat unit they work.Tec can also assasinate mil labs to stop production of ilums.

If you are hard core battling someone its hard to get guardians with repulse early.its alot of research and resources.

Finally when they fix fighters this ilum nerf will have been a waste since they werent a prob when fighters worked.

All this talk about  how ic favors advent and such isnt true. There are alot of ways to counter advent.Ic has made each race play diff.Advent happens to be strong fleet race.Tec is super eco and large numbers.Vas is hit and run with powereful killing abilities.If you let an advent get a battle ball then you have to use your races strengths to win.Its like trying to counter novs with advents sw. Advent will lose everytime hands down.

Scale: 1 resource = 5 credits in calculations.

Nova's Auxiliary Gouvenemnt and all variants for all races protects planets from Novas.

Protection from kotsura? Hmm advent got that as weel sinc enow their hangers will give sheilds and sheild mitigation. So unlest you enemy has 10 kotsura's your fine.

TEC econ? LOL WHAT A JOKE, last I looked they made planets give the same credit income for all races. Thsi was a nerf to TEC since TEC made the most from the HW and a buff to Advent who made the least. Vasari it stayed the same.

Tec early game has mostly 2 upgrades that can help. Moduler construction and Metal mining.

Moduler construction reduced the cost of Mines and ship Factories. But how effective is it realy? If you research to 40% and you compensate in mine it is only whne you will build your 13th mine that you will break even. What ti realy help is setting up a forward ship production base. How ever frigates factories are cheap by default for all races.

Metal mining? if you reseach booth lvls it makes your metal extractors go from 0.52 to 0.59 so only a 0.07 extration rate increase. Plus it coested you 1275 credits to research it. So it will take a while for it to pay it's self. Byt he time it does pay it'S self you got lums bearing down on you. So it barely makes an impact unless your got a volcanic next door to your hw with 4 metal astrois.

Now lets have a look at advent colonise abilaty.

Colonise lvl 1 gives 20% discount witch means savings of 315 credits for the first upgrade and 410 credits for the 2nd.
Colonise lvl 2 gives 40% discount witch means savings of 630 credits for the first upgrade and 820 credits fir the 2nd.
And this at no cost to the advent player.

Now lets look at teh cost of LRFs.

Lum 955
Assa 950
LRM 345

WOW LUMS cost 5 credits more then assaialnts but we know from actual combat that lums can fight assaialnts outnumbered and still WTF pwn assailants.

But TEC have dirt cheap LRMs. Yeah their dirt cheap but their dirt weak to. To figth 1 lums you need on average 3 LRMs so the actual cost is 1035 more then lums and your not sure of winning not to mention LRMs use 4 fleet suppyl and that if you need 3 to equal 1 lum that is using only 6 means you need 12 double the fleet supply to meant what teh enemy puts up. Additional suppyl whos cost is supposed to be contremended by TECs none existant early game econ.

Now I can keep crunching numbers and the numbers all say it. Advent is out of wack. I can crunch number for TEC vs Vasari and it will be fairly even. But crunching Advent vs the other races Advent always clearly comes out on top in every sector.

Advent has the high life in this game. TEC and Vasari are eatting dirt compared to it.

Oh I forgot to mention culture is a much more deadly tool then most people think. Especialy Advent culture. Advent's culture is so strong it's unreal. Imagine this I had 3 caps 3 broadcast centers and culture research and the advent culture was still advancing on me and pushing my own culture out. Only defence I had agaitn that was to go kill the source. No other way around it.

and yet no one ever had a problem with vasari being top dogs...

vasari never were top dogs?

Nah Vasari were topdog when RA was insane. The fixed it so fast it was unreal. And they might ahve fixed it a bit to hardcore too. But hell they sure are dragging their feet with advent.

I thought that all weapons do instant damage to make it easier on the CPU.

edit: Now that I recall, Blair mentioned that one of their sync bugs was caused by using the non-deterministic random number generator to determine which missile bank fires at given moment from Marza if I remember correctly. I think he also mentioned that the moment of impact for those missiles was calculated basing on where the missile came out of. That caused random hit moments which in turn could cause different moments of ships blowing up on different players screens and then all sorts of other bullshlt, like ships autotargetting different enemies in each player's game and bam, desync.
Anyway, this basically means that there is some calculation being done on when a missile hits ;p.

back then during the RA massacre advent had repulse that could move and we had our subs nerfed. as i say again.. vasari were NEVER top dogs

Well ead I have never been in a game where I could afford a sb at everyplanet and have aux gov at everyplanet and even so the nov kills the pop for a long time so I would say its still effective.

I was talking about late game and tec has the moost eco upgrades. They get an extra log slot which means they can put up an extra trade at everyplanet over advent.I also believe they can up their hw to a higher pop for more taxes.Research to up trade ships and pervasive eco.

Vas get to up metal and crys with one cost and if they own alot of neutrals they will out eco an advent easy.They can get more supply points for the same cost.

If you fire kos it disables buildings but dont tell me the hanger 4 dps recharge rate is going to throw the battle.5 or 6 kos shots at a defending fleet will surely tip the battle.

Ead dont tell me you have been killed by culture.

Oh that come sonly at mid and late game. Were 90% of the time games don't get there why because lums are so damned powerfull you cant last till you get there. I could do the calculation for TEC econ it not nearly as impresive as one migth think.

No have not been beaten by culture, but i have beaten people with it and have suffered serious difficulties from a person culture bombing my worlds. Was a pain in the ass and it caused lots of harm to my econ. If you laught at culture you realy shouldn't. IMO culture is more deadly then the super weapons are.

See, here's the thing though:

In order to balance out the game, each race MUST have at LEAST 1 op object to have a fighting chance w/

TEC: Missile Barrage, not much else I can think of... besiedes ECON. and Argonevs

Vas.: Their starbases suck at killing fleets, at least compared to the other two... Not really sure what Vas. has that's TRULY op... Maybe Enforcers, but idk

Adv.: Here's where the fun starts. Lums, Carriers, Culture, ECON., Guardians...

Seem fair? Well, according to the SoaSE: Lore, the entire Advent purpose is to destroy the TEC, so it's remotely beleivable to me that they can have all this stuff... remotely

Koda0 (^)

I don't know what the hell you've been smoking, but the Vasari SB is a beast at taking out fleets. Ignoring the fact that it can move (which negates the advantage of the anti-SB cruisers), it has frontal shields that are much better than the usual ones and it can repair its hull from the ship it itself has destroyed. In the current version where LRM spam is king these things are the most effective counters you could hope for. Give it a few flak frigates and fighters set on local area and you've got a nearly omnipotent fleet killing machine.

Carriers are almost all equal.Advents cost and fleet supply is 1/3 more that the other 2 so they basically equal.Guards a bit I voted for a small am increase of repulse.Lums would be fine if fighters worked and are tier 3 so I think they are fine.They have the worst range and the only way for them to be effective is point blank anyway.

Ead I agree with you and everyone else that lums+flak is hard to counter early but if they fix fighters it wont be a problem.Same with all other lrf.Im glad when someone tries to kill me with culture there is tons of time to counter and he wasted his resources while i built stuff to destroy with.Culture is horrible as is and needs a major overhaul.

Any race that has a skilled rusher is hard to defeat and thats just it.Vas will have best numbers due to tier 1 and tec build up cheap and fast.Back in the day of carriers they did there job. A few would repel 10 lrms and it made many options for rush.

the vasari SB is worse at taking out fleets because it doesnt have a fleet killing ability while both the other SBs do. (meteor storm, last protocal) Vasari SBs just cream everything early game but late game the other SBs can do more dmg to an enemy. this is how the vasari SB is designed to be so it fits in well. it takes out SBs easily.

Yeah how ever ICO seems stuburn to not go back to 1.01 entrenchment despite it beign the best teh game has ever been. In 1.02 they fucked it up ROYALY. 1.03 They once again toke a tentative step towards the rigth direction but the step was so small all it did was reveal that advent was oped as they are still able to lum and flak their way to victory. I can tell you if a TEC or Vasari tries to do that againt me they will bite the dust but advent will just steam ahead. So yeah makign carriers like 1.01 will fix lums pluf flak but lums will still be oped comapred tot he otehr races and compared to their cost. And please for the love of GOD SHUT UP ABOUT LUMS BEING TEIR 3 and that they should be stronger then the lrms of the other races. TEC LRMs are teir 2 and they dotn compare to teir 1 vasari assailants. So please stop it with that none sence argument.

I always start immedialty building scouts in MP. If after scouting i see my opponent is LRF rushing (any race) i continue building scouts. Like 30-40. Then i anticipate the counter and either build LFs (flak) or my own LRFs (LFs).

Scouts counter all LRFs hard. lums included. and flak dont counter scouts hard enough for me to worry about losing to many too fast to not get his LRFs.

This works people...RA is right. Ive been realizing this through my own personal experiance online. The key is you need ALOT of them, but they are cheap and require no research so no biggy...

VASARI NEVER TOP?

haha, i remeber the time "im in middle, ill rush RA"

Ascension = short memory or new

siddy you retard. back then advent could STILL slap RA simply because THEIR SHIT WAS FAR MORE OP THAN RA. GO PLAY WITH MOVING REPULSE OR ENHANCED MALICE WITH CLEANSING BRILLIANCE . stupid nerd.

lol....vasari can't lrm rush cause it gets bitch slapped by advent lrm rush. stop your whining and put forth your suggestions to ironclad. everyon's just arguing pointlessly.

my suggestion:

1. slightly unnerf the carrier build penalty (15% down from 25%)

advent spam illums because that for thme is the only thing that works(flak suck and carriers get owned for them too, remember?)

Only think you need to do to fix illuminatiors is to remove the sidebeams, why do they even have those anyways? none of the other lrms can fire insta damage beams off to thier sides.

* why dis. missiles is shit: If you bomb a lvl10 cap ship into oblivion with 60 Assailants using Dis. Missiles, a Cobalt floating right next to the blowing up cap will still be alive with, I dunno, 30-50% life? Lol? You just blew 6000HP worth of hull and shields off a cap with 75% mitigation and 10-ish armor and the lolmao cobalt lost, like 800 points altogether? That's AOE Tickling, not AOE damage. It's laughable and hardly ever useful for the AOE. Extra range, MAYBE. Aoe = lol.