AD, I'm saying that the reality of the situation is that the PA won't do anything. I think you mentioned it, but they just have no inclination. If they can continue their hold of power based on manipulating their people's belief that the Israeli's are "evil," then they will. Why would any power hungry person give that sort of power up?

Hence, because the PA won't do it - it has pretty much fallen to Israel. Yes, they try, but they're going to need to try a lot harder than they are. Sometimes, in a group, when a person doesn't pull their weight, you have no choice but to pick up the slack for the sake of the rest of those in the group. In this case, the PA has shown no inclination. So then what? Do the Israeli's just abandon it all?

I do find it giggle inducing that you claimed socialism/marxism, when I commented with this: "Governments have never lied to anyone; they are the bastion of honesty, I should believe my government."

When I was a Seventh Day Adventist (many moons ago) I remember they had veggie meat.  They used to make veggie meatballs etc that you could not really tell the diff.  My friend is a SDA and she buys this meat all the time.  Not sure where tho.  You could check with your local SDA I suppose because they are mostly vegetarians. 

Anyhow this is all you do for MEXICAN BEEF AND RICE:

1 lb ground beef

1 cup long grain rice (not minute rice)

1 16 oz jar of salsa (mild, hot or medium)

1 15 oz can of black beans

1 1/2 cups Mexican Blend Shredded Cheese

Brown the beef in large saute pan until brown and crumbled.  Drain grease.  Stir in rice and two cups water.  Bring to a boil.  Reduce heat to low and simmer 10 minutes.  Stir in salsa and beans and cook about 8 minutes or until rice is tender and water is absorbed.

Sprinkle with cheese, cover and cook until cheese melts. 

That's it!  Soooo easy but really very good.   Makes a good amount.  Very good leftover for lunch the next day. 

Yes and baptized into it. 

How so?  I have a friend who I've known for about 20 years and I haven't noticed much of a change in her. 

What did Israel do to deserve being punished?   Why are you giving the PA a pass (but claim we need to stop giving a pass to Israel)?

The PA is not 'slacking' here (at least through the leadership of Chamas).  They are sabotaging the group's efforts! If someone was not only NOT helping you with your project but purposefully sabotaging any progress you are trying to make, you wouldn't say, we need to try harder.  You would report them to the teacher or confront them trying to put pressure on them to be subordinate.  But that's not what you want to do.  You are saying Israel needs to work harder to not just overcome the work necessary to be successful but to overcome while someone is sabotaging.  This is absurd!

Giggle all you want but your claims were very fundamentally socialistic/marxist. A quote doesn't subtract from this fact.

AD, it's the friggin reality of the situation. Stamping your foot and insisting that the PA do something, when you damn well know they won't - solves nothing. So, because of that reality...unfortunately, it's Israel's job, because they're the only ones that will do anything.

You may not like it, and it may not sound fair - but that's the way the things are.

Agreed, the idea that the PA won't do shit is absurd, but because the PA won't do shit (because it takes two to tango AD), and if Israel really want's peace (which I'm sure they do), then what else is there to be done, except Isreal stepping up the attempts at peace?

Either they do that, and confirm million of people's belief that they want peace, or they don't...then what?

You're calling my comments on picking up the slack and knowing when the other person doesn't want to cooperate...socialism/marxism? Dude, you're seriously not focused.

Is it AJ, or have we created a situation where the PA have NO incentive to promote peace?  Over the weekend Abbas (PM of PA) said unless Israel plans for giving up some territory and cease of construction in West Bank, he won't come to the table.  What I am saying is that just because it 'seems' like it is the reality of the situation doesn't mean we or anyone else should put an unjustified additional burden on a country that has already been bending backwards?

If you, Leauki, I, and Israel knows that the PA won't do anything why then do you insist that Israel give up something knowing that they will get nothing in return especially 'Peace?'

Really?

Karl Marx famous slogan is/was: "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need."

Basically what I'm hearing from you is....

Israel has more therefore they should give more towards the peace (ie make more efforts, need to step up, etc) process because the PA has shown little (they won't do anything) therefore they should receive more.

So please show me how I'm not focused?

Either way it is the reality of the situation. Sure, *we* shouldn't, it is Israel's affairs. I don't mean that we should do it, but that the wway I am seeing the situation, Israel could do it/should do it in my opinion.   

My biggest concern, is why the hell they don't tell their people  to stay out of the west bank/gaza and simply say that land is now Palestinian. Simple, right?

Either you're hearing me wrong, or I'm not getting my point across. I'm not saying lets all join in hand and become socialist, I am saying that if Israel really wants peace - it will have to concede. Yes, yes I know...it will have to do more yet again, but isn't peace worth the price?

The only other option is to continue the war; therefore alienating more peopple, causing more deaths, making the palestinian people hate them more, etc...

Or you are solely focused on YOUR point that you completely miss others'.

Same with Israel's concessions for peace but yet you continue to say if Israel would just try harder the results will change. 

No they haven't tried every possible option mainly because the UN and EU and US and yada yada, won't let them put a stipulation, stop firing rockets or else!

Yes, Israel has, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel%27s_unilateral_disengagement_plan , what more do you want Israel to do?

I'm not saying that Israel has done everything right.  They've made many mistakes.  They never intended on creating a pool of hatred over there.  Did you know that Israel had been suppling PA with  80% of their gas and electricity needs until just about 2 years ago.  That's when the wall that was dividing Egypt from PA was destroyed because the PA made sure to cut everything else to make Israel look bad. Did you know that Israel was providing that since 1993?  You may say that they were getting paid for that well not exactly.  Most of the time the PA either didn't pay at all OR paid a small fraction of the price.  On top of that the PA did charge for the all the consumation BUT did not pay Israel.  That sounds real fair.  Also, the States media failed to mention that the wall was contructed BY EGYPT because Egypt DOES NOT WANT any immigrants.   

Hence why Egypt killed a lot of Darfur refugees.Israel asborbed over 500 Darfur refugees : http://web.israelinsider.com/Articles/Politics/11881.htm Israel also absorbed over 2,800 other illegals from that region.  Most of those refugees are muslims. Did you know out of all the Arab world Israel TOOK in by far more refugees. 

You can continue to say Israel will do this and Israel doesn't do this.  You already admitted through your own admission that the PA won't do anything.  Hamas does not want peace.  Fatah and Hamas aren't the same groups.  The one is a nationalist movement (Fatah) and Hamas is a religious movement. Fatah was seen as greedy (which they were) and that's why Hamas got pushed in. 

Have you noticed any trends in what I've been writting?  Why hasn't ANY ARAB COUNTRY HELPED the PA? WHY?  They only support they ever get is weapons. The Darfur refugees incident was not the only time that Arab countries refused to help another muslim or arab and it will not be the last time as well.

Maybe its time that either the PA started not sending rockets/sucide attackers over AND/OR maybe some Arab nation should step up and help the PA.  When I say help I mean with Humantarian aid.  In the Middle-East, Jews and Christians are the minority therefore there is a there should be a higher rate of Arabs helping Arabs.

a few years ago israel sent troops to clear all israeli settlements from the arab territories, people were given twice the going rate for the houses and relocated, those that refused were tear gassed and taken by force. At the end not a single israeli settlement was left. It was a final "move towards peace and coexistance"... of course it didn't work, they kept shooting rockets and sending suicide bombers.

Imagine if the US sent its army to remove all texans from texas to give it back to the mexicans, including having the military use tear gas on FAMILIES that refused to relocated and drag them away in cuffs? And then bulldoze the homes so they don't come back?

It was an extremely radical move meant to either garner peace once and for all, or to prove that the problem is not israel, not the settlements, but the fact that their religion calls for the destruction and conquest of all infidels.

The one thing that I don't understand is people (from the States) say that Israel is an illegal state or that they are occupying land illegally.

In reality, Israel has been trying to follow all the U.N.'s attempt to give the PA land. Both times the PA renigged on it.  On a technicality wouldn't the PA be illegally occupying the land?  If someone was selling a house and I agreed to pay for it.  Its not offically mine until I get the title.  If I change my mind on purchasing the house I can't just decide to stay in that house.

Why is the burden constantly being put on Israel to help or to do something?  I don't see any Arab country jumping to help.  Its not like the PA is surrounded by non-arab/muslim countries.