TopDesk - Expose Clone For Windows

from JoeUser Forums
Otaku Software has released TopDesk, an Expose clone for Windows XP. Features include tiling all windows, including minimized windows, tiling the current applications windows, including minimized application windows, and hiding all windows. For more information, visit http://www.otakusoftware.com/topdesk.
6,490 views 9 replies
Reply #1 from JoeUser Forums Top
I don't know if this is just drive by blog spamming/advertising, or if you actually intend on interacting with potential users here. Since I am feeling nice today, I will assume the later until proven otherwise (ie. what I am about to say is never responded to).

First off, I tried the program. It worked very nice. The animation was smooth and looked sharp. It didn't seem to have any problems with Object Dock Plus running, as some other Expose clones seem to. And even though it was the trial version, I could tell this program looked nice and did its job well to a degree. In fact I was ready to pony up and buy it this very morning. Then I hit the two biggest snags.

1) Price--Now I have no problem paying $20 for a good bit of customization software. I have done it in the past and will do it again in the future I am sure. But the problem I see is that every other Expose clone I have seen for Windows costs half what you are charging. WInPlosion and a couple others I can't recall the names of off the top of my head are all less than $10. I see this as a weakness, since why would I pay $20 for the same thing I can get for $10? I wouldn't. There may be some things that TopDesk does that the others don't, but since the demo was crippled I couldn't tell.

2) A crippled demo--This is a tough one. It is great to not have a timed demo, but to have many of the features missing makes it tough for me to compare to the other programs. WinPlosion has a timed demo (10 days) that is fully functional, so I could see all the settings. Tough call here, because I love that it wasn't timed (or didn't appear to be), but having it be crippled makes it hard to get a feel for the program.

3) Resource use--Perhaps it was my aging system, but just sitting there, on but doing nothing TopDesk was using over 27 megs of RAM. That is quit a bit, again when compared to the competition. Others usually run (on my system at least) in the <10 megs if I recall correctly. Almost 3 times as much RAM use when idle is also a big drawback to regular use for me. I don't mind using programs that take some RAM for the sake of eye candy, but when I can run a complete Desktop X theme with 6-8 objects and use the same or a little less RAM than having TopDesk sitting idle, well, that is another strike against the program.

Again, I thought it was a great program, but had some serious drawbacks that, if addressed in some manner, could really push the potential of the product. I hope to see a response.
Reply #2 from JoeUser Forums Top
BlueDev: No, this isn't drive by spamming, we'd actually like some feedback from users

Regarding your points:

1) TopDesk costs the same as similar window effect addons, such as WindowFX from StarDock. TopDesk costs more than other Exposé clones, but you get what you pay for. How much support would you expect for software you paid $10 for? What kind of quality are you getting for $10? If you've found that Exposé-like functionality is hard to live without, then paying $19.95 for something you'll use all day every day is very reasonable.

2) The trial version shows off the main feature of the application. All other features (minimized windows, application-only windows) are an extension of this main feature. We chose to cripple the trial because most users object to applications installing hidden "cookies" on their machine in order to implement time or usage limits. Removing non-core features from the trial allows us to avoid this invasion of privacy.

3) TopDesk snapshots windows and downloads them to the video card as you work. This is the only way to ensure that the window images you see when tiled are up to date, and the only way to handle minimized windows,. The drawback is that it uses more memory. TopDesk memory usage is also dependent on whether or not your video card supports texture compression. On a system that supports texture compression, running with around 40 fullscreen windows open, TopDesk will use around 35 MB of memory. This is why we recommend a DirectX 9 compatible video card. Most other Exposé-clones, including Winplosion, have similar resource usage when a similar number of windows are open and they are handling minimized windows (Winplosion does not handle minimized windows by default - turning this option on will increase the amount of memory it uses).
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Reply #3 from WinCustomize Forums Top
It should be noted that WindowFX has a very VERY wide range of features. It's not just a couple of different effects.
Reply #4 from JoeUser Forums Top
Frogboy: WindowFX is an excellent product with a huge amount of available FX - I wasn't directly comparing the two products (they do two different things) I was just pointing out that they're both window addons and they're comparable in price.

We haven't had any complaints in our local market (Australia), so it's a bit suprising to see comments about the price and the crippled trial being serious drawbacks, but it's something we'll have to deal with.

At the end of the day, TopDesk isn't our major product, it was just meant to get the ball rolling for the company. If the amount of effort we'd have to go through to get sales over the internet becomes unprofitable, then we'll either reduce the price to $10 ($10 is the cost of a movie ticket where I'm from) and cut the level of support we offer, or just offer it free to entice customers to our site.

I'm not prepare to budge on the crippled trial however - if you don't want to tile application windows, or don't need to reconfigure the hotkeys, we've basically given away a free Expose clone. Time or usage limiting techniques are pretty much the same as the worst spyware in my opinion (they're akin to the Seinfeld episode where his girlfriend puts "something" from his apartment in his toilet. You don't know what the program has put on your system or where it's put it, but you know it's done "something" ), and I won't be subjecting users to them, even if it results in lost sales.
Reply #5 from WinCustomize Forums Top
Awesome, thanks for coming back and addressing the issues I mentioned. Just a few replies.

Price--Yeah, I know you get what you pay for. As I mentioned I have no problem paying for customization software. And while I am sure you offer great support, that could be a hard difference for some one to "see" on the net. I suppose I was a bit extreme when I said "serious drawbacks", so I will retract that statement and say instead that it has some things that, in an initial look, reduced its immediate appeal. Does that sound better? I just mentioned the price because I know folks like to complain, especially on the net, and thought your product looked great from the demo and would hate to see the price difference between you and the other guys hurt you. It was more of just a heads up (though I am sure you already knew it) than anything.

Demo--As I mentioned, it is a hard one to call here. I hate the idea of a timed demo, but can see that at times it can be beneficial. I appreciate the desire to not put extra "cookies" on the machine. In the end I think you made the right decision with the demo, just mentioned it as a potential gripe.

Resource use--To be honest, as smoothly as it worked, and having thought about it a bit more, the resource use seems pretty fair. Also, it is worth noting that since Winplosion has a timed demo I could no longer go back and try it to see resource use there, so I give you guys the nod in that department. Again, I was too harsh the first time (was in a bit of a hurry and didn't think through the response really carefully I suppose), and could live with the resource use.

At the end of the day, it is a good program and looks to have a lot of potential. I hope it works out well for you guys. And I apologize if I came off harsh about the drive by spamming. I have just seen it so often that it is my first assumption when I see it. My opinion of the company has already risen significantly thanks to your answers. And I can't emphasize enough how important good customer relations is. As an example, I have purchased products from Stardock I never use, simply because I wanted to contribute in some way to a company I think treats their customers well. Thanks again for your replies.
Reply #6 from JoeUser Forums Top
The price is something we'll have to look at - no-one has batted an eyelid about the cost down here in Oz , but if it's going to be an issue for everyone else, then we'll have to do something about it. We're not quite sure how we're going to approach it though, as we don't want to cut back on support. The trial download issue is just something we'll have to live with. The next version of TopDesk will probably have a trial that supports minimized windows, so it'll have a bit more functionality. It won't satisfy everyone, but there's not much we can do about that.

Don't worry about assuming it was spam - it's got so bad for us that we don't have our email addresses on the website - we've moved everything over to PHP forms to offer some level of protection. At least i didn't try and sell you viagra, or worse

Thanks for taking the time to respond to my points. It's amazing to have had an actual civilized discussion on a message board By way of thanks, I'd like to offer you a complimentary copy of TopDesk - if you're interested, just drop us a line through one of the contact forms on the website, and I'll set up the download.
Reply #7 from JoeUser Forums Top
Thank you very much for your offer. I certainly can't say no to that, but hope you realize that was never the intention. I sent my email and name through a Sales enquiry. Thanks again, and I will play with the program fully and write up my full impressions. Thanks for your time and replies to my comments.
Reply #8 from JoeUser Forums Top

I don't think $20 is too much. I do think you would be better off with a time-out version of your program rather than crippling so much. People who buy software don't roam the net looking for cracked versions of software normally.

Reply #9 from JoeUser Forums Top
BlueDev: Thanks. It's always nice to meet someone you can actually have a conversation with. I realize it was never the intention, but it doesn't cost us anything to give away a copy of the software, and at this stage in it's life cycle it's just nice to get it out there. I'll organize the download on Monday when I get back into the office. We're a bit out of sync time-wise (it's 3am over here), so I don't know exactly when you'll receive the details - it'll probably be sometime during the day on Monday or on Tuesday morning (your time).