aaron424

Join Date 11/2008

Need Your Opinion: Namely on CPU's

Okay so I finially have enough money to buy a new computer. I am building it from a barebones kit. Lets see... I have two different systems in mind. One has an AMD Athlon X2 64 7750 @ 2.7 GHz. http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.194454 The other, at $40 more has a AMD Phenom X4 9500 @ 2.2 GHz. http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=4691267&sku=B69-0083 It seems like it would be better to get the Quad Core, but I have heard nasty things about it, like it has an unstable 3rd core and is not very fast. Are the extra two cores really worth the 40 dollars? The Athlon X2 64 got much better reviews than the Phenom, and since they fit the same slot, if the Athlon is not fast enough I can get one of the better rated phenoms. Also, the extra 40 bucks gets me half as much hard drive space and cache and a video card that is worth less. On the plus side the Quad core kit has a cd/dvd burner which the other does not. I can't decide which one to get. I would really apprteciate any advice you can give me espcially related to the CPU. I am a cheapskate so unless the Quad core is really better (I heard it acted more like a dual core) I don't want to spend the money. Thanks for your help.

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However, if your budget allows it, there maybe some better options...

Take a look at this:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103649

Its the Phenom II X3 720. It gives you the higher clock speed of the 7750, an extra core and the updated architecture of Phenom II (more energy efficient, runs cooler and faster per MHz than either of the chips you mentioned). I believe it's probably a little outside your budget, but if you could stretch and get it, it would be much better overall. Most all AM2+ motherboard should be able to handle this processor even though it says AM3 (make sure to check the motherboard you're buying to be sure). Also, newegg is offering some CPU/motherboard combos right now that may put this chip with reach for your budget.

Hope this helps

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Most applications these days only use 2 cores, so performace wise a higher clockrate dual core processor will perform better than a slower speed quad core. With that said, In the next couple of years more and more things will be able to use more than two cores. These days it is mainly video codecs, encrytion, and some other more speicalized applications. If you don't plan to upgrade for the next couple years, I would get a quad core.

If you are about performace, I would check out www.tomshardware.com to look at bechmarks comparing the two.

Here is a possible relevant benchmark http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/desktop-cpu-charts-q3-2008/Supreme-Commander-Forged-Alliance-1680x1050,Marque_fbrandx32,821.html

Lastly, if you are bent on going AMD, I would get a Phenom II processor. Athlon 64's use 90nm tech when the newer Phenom II's use 45nm, which means less power useage, cooler, faster, and in general, more overclockability (I am not a big AMD guy so I can't give you the details on how much you can overclock these processors).

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Wirespeed is correct about a dual core @ higher clock speeds will beat a slower quad in most applications. Imo, the triple core phenoms are not the best choice, unless u get lucky and unlock the 4th core w/ phenom II (the phenom II X3's have 4 cores but with one disabled). On the otherhand, ive been kicking myself for not waiting for the X4 Phenom II's and getting a q9550 from intel. The black edition's have massive amounts of headroom for overclocking and are a great, great performance for the price. If your up to it and willing to get a good aftermarket cpu cooler, give overclocking a try. Its been the cheap mans way to better performance. Just be sure u know what your doin tho, but the performance and knowledge gained is well worth the effort.

But if i had to choose between the two, the athlon x2 should suffice with the higher clock speeds and that most games and apps dont utilize all 4 cores of a quad, yet.

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Just FYI even though the Athlon X2 7750 is not labeled as a Phenom CPU, it does indeed use the same Phenom architecture as the Phenom I's (Phenom II is definitly superior to Phenom I, but both are much better than the Athlon 64 chips). For $60 the 7750 is a hell of a chip to beat.

To the OP:

If you gave us a budget we could be much more specific.

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Well I had those two computers that I linked to in mind, but anything between $300-400 would be fine (maybe $500 if its a really good deal) I dont need a monitor or mouse or keyboard, just the computer itself.

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Again, I would recommend checking out tomshardware.com, they have a lot of good suggestions for computers of all budgests (here is a $600 computer example http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/core-2-overclock,2310.html)

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Also, the reason I was looking at the Athlon 64 X2 is that in a year I can buy a Phenom II to put in that motherboard. The reason I was asking about the Phenom I is because it is the one that comes with a barebone kit from Tigerdirect that I really like.

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But looking at the reviews it seems like the Phenom is faster than the Athlon. But only on some of the tests.

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Unfortunately I only have $400 right now, so thats another reason I was looking at the Athlon

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I just built a new desktop with a $500 budget and I bought a 7750. It really is the best CPU you can get for the money (for a low end budget). Here's my build suggestions:

Cooler Master Centurion case:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119106

Enermax 500W Power Supply:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817194038

AMD Athlon X2 7750:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103300

4GB G.Skill DDR2 800:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231122

Gigabyte GA-MA770-UD3 AM2+ motherboard:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128376

Radeon HD 4670 512MB video card:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102820

LG Black DVD burner:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827136152

Western Digital 500GB hard drive:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136073

Sub total = $447.92

Total with shipping = $479.90 (3 day UPS within the US)

I know it's more than $400, but a few of the products have mail in rebates that could make the end result closer to your budget. I didn't shop around when I made this (and I only spent about 10 minutes on it) so do your own research. However, this should give a good idea of what to expect and look out for with your budget. It's very similar to the system I made for myself about 3-4 months ago. It shouldn't have any trouble playing Demigod (maybe not "maxed out" but pretty high settings) and other past Stardock titles should be a breeze. Seeing as how you're posting this question in a Stardock forum, I'd imagine that would be a concern for you.

I hope this is helpful.

***EDIT***

I found some interesting potential alternatives if your interested.

Better video card (more expensive, more performance):

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102822

Less expensive power supply (less wattage, but definitly adequate for this computer):

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139008

Less expensive (but smaller) hard drive:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136098

Cost with these changes = $470.25 (same UPS 3 day shipping included)

Again, it is possible you can find better deals elsewhere, but this gives you a good start.

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Thanks alot for yuor help. I think that I have finially decided (I had been researcing for about a month and the CPU was the only thing holding me back) I think this will be my final comfiguration:

Hard Drive: HITACHI 0A38016 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive - OEM

MOBO: ECS BLACK SERIES GF8200A (V1.0) AM2+/AM3 NVIDIA GeForce 8200 HDMI ATX AMD Motherboard

CPU: AMD Athlon 64 X2 7750 Kuma 2.7GHz Socket AM2+ 95W Dual-Core black edition Processor Model AD775ZWCGHBOX

Video Card: EVGA 01G-P3-N959-TR GeForce 9500 GT 1GB 128-bit GDDR2 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready SLI Supported Video Card

RAM: OCZ SLI-Ready Edition 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory

Case:HEC 6C28BBX585 Black Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case 585W Power Supply

Total Cost (with ups 3rd day shipping:) $345.72

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I don't know how much you plan on playing games, but that 9500GT is underpowered for the price. Honestly the ATI 4670 kicks it's ass all around for the same price. I'm an nvidia guy myself, but I wouldn't feel right telling you to buy a 9500GT for the same price as a 4670. The ATI 4830 I listed as an alternative for $20 more kicks both of their asses with ease.

Here's a good article comparing the 9500GT and 4670:

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3405&p=7

However, I do see the special combo Newegg is offering with the same specs (and price) you listed. I assume that's what you want to buy? If so, then it's a pretty good deal. Just know that the 9500GT is a pretty low-end video card. It'll play demigod, but I don't think you'd be able to crank the settings to fullest and maintain a good sim speed. Another worry I would have is the generic brand power supply. It might work great, but I've had 2 generic power supplies die and take other hardware with it to the grave. Name brands are a much safer (but more expensive) bet. It would be a real shame if that power supply popped and took your new motherboard with it. Not horribly likely, but I've seen it happen.

I agree that combo is pretty tempting and would probably serve you just fine as long as you don't expect miracles. It's hard to argue with 1TB of hard drive space. Not to mention that combo fits your budget like a glove. If you absolutely must stay under $400 then it's probably the way to go.

Just my 2 cents...

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Thanks, I don't expect it to do miracles, just play mid-range games with a possible video card upgrade if I get the money. (I had noticed that the card didn't get the greatest ratings-thats ok, I dont want to play crysis and other high end games) Either way, this new system I've been waiting for totally kills and beats to the ground my dell optiplex gx270 with pentium 4 @ 1.8 Ghz with 512 DDR ram and a suckish mobo in a low profile office case with no video card.. You get the idea. This will be a huge jump for me. Also, there is another combo on Tigerdirect that I was looking at if anyone is interested: http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-Details.asp?EdpNo=4691267&sku=B69-0083 It has the Phenom that I yall don't like (along with the CNET people and lots of other reviewers) and its other hardware is worse. It at first looked good thanks to the quad core, but it really isn't better than the dual.

Anyways, I'm really suprised at how cheap computer technology has become! I saw an article from two years ago building a budget gaming pc for $600 that wasn't half as good as this one. In another few years they'll have even more good stuff and this new computer will be terrible! Well, I will save that for a few years from now. For now, I have a nice budget computer. Once it arrives perhaps I will make a youtube video of the parts and post some benchmarks...or I might jump straight into GalCiv2 and Demigod and forget all that!

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Nevermind, i allready linked to that computer kit at the beginning

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I have the AMD 7750 BE. It is a quad core phenom with 2 of the cores disabled. You have all the advantages of the newer K10 design for less than half the price. It has to be one of the best dual cores I have ever had.

Let me tell you, the reviews do not tell the whole story. This thing is a BEAST. I opted for the AMD 790GX chipset w/ the 750SB. I got lucky and I am able to unlock the 7750 cores and now I have a quad core. Granted, your mileage may vary.

For the price, I think it is untouchable. If I need more speed, I can always go back to dual core and clock it up. I have had it to 3.2ghz on stock voltage. If I am using a multithreaded program, I just go back to the quad core settings.

Before you ask, my motherboard has multiple CPU profiles. I can, with a simple reboot, go from dual to quad core and back again.

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Quoting Wirespeed91,

reply 1

In most applications, the X4 9500 is going to be slower than the X2 7750 due to it's lower clock speed. Only in programs that were made to use 4 cores will the 9500 win. If it's between those two, I'd get the 7750 in a heart beat. That's probably a biased answer seeing as how I am typing this from a computer with a 7750 in it .

However, if your budget allows it, there maybe some better options...

Take a look at this:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103649

Its the Phenom II X3 720. It gives you the higher clock speed of the 7750, an extra core and the updated architecture of Phenom II (more energy efficient, runs cooler and faster per MHz than either of the chips you mentioned). I believe it's probably a little outside your budget, but if you could stretch and get it, it would be much better overall. Most all AM2+ motherboard should be able to handle this processor even though it says AM3 (make sure to check the motherboard you're buying to be sure). Also, newegg is offering some CPU/motherboard combos right now that may put this chip with reach for your budget.

Hope this helps

I am going to agree with Phenom II X3 720. Excellent overclocking ability, faster than most Quads but has an extra core than Dualcores, much better architecture than the 7750. It is also a great price. A must buy. It might be JUST outside your price range, but if you want bang for the buck this it. Word of advice: Don't buy any First Edition Phenoms. They are not good. The Phenom II's are very good for the price however. When it comes to video games, you won't notice a difference between an I7 and a Phenom II. I promise.

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