Autoupgrade of units in the field

Normally I would vehemently disagree with this concept but given this is a fantasy game, I can accept such a thing if implemented reasonably well. Allowing such an action via a magical incantation would be an acceptable method. Allowing for it to scale upward is a very practical way of doing so as well. I have also considered such a system and frankly I would want three more limitation put on it. Firstly that it should not be able to be cast for top level or elite magic items. Secondly only one army could be affected per turn. Finally that it would only be effective in area controlled by you and not under some area effect spell from an opponent.

I'm actually against the concept as well and would prefer they do something else. However, I think I see why they are going this direction from a programattic perspective, which is why I started thinking of "well IF they go this way, what are some things that would make it more palatable.

I REALLY do not like the upgrade with no cost. It should be easy to add some significant costs.

I would prefer that units have to get to an appropriate city to get upgraded. My educated guess is they are trying to keep from having thousands of unique units running around in the game and having to track inventories of each of those units. My guess is that they are trying to treat unit types somewhat like ship designs in Galciv2. They want all swordsmen under your control to be identical, same with pikemen, archers, or whatever unit you can create (including the ones you design). Makes the game much more manageable from a programming side.

Is there a problem with the GC2 system?  IE units must sit and wait a period of time for thier upgrade.  There's no concern about the actual physical transport. 

The problem would now be, what determines the upgrade time?  Thing to think about AI / game design wise vs. reality:

If a blacksmith can make 5 swords in a day and it's going to take a week to get the new swords to the 5 men that need them.  Time making them < transport, therefore adding blacksmiths will not expediate the process much.  However, if the army is 2 days away and needs 200 swords, time making is much more of a factor than transport.  So the player would want more blacksmiths working on the job, but how many? 

Just saying, will the game handle it with a generic formula or will the player need to prepare accordingly?  Is he going to have to look at who makes what and what type of production / transportation would most benifit his army upgrade times?  Or will it be flat across the board.

From my understanding GC2 works on a value/point system based on distance and value difference of upgraded parts. With some min/max values thrown in.  I don't think there is any technology that expediates the process (aside from any oddball tech or ability I forgotten about).

I ignore magic because that can be a fix all for any problem.

I can live with it as long as things like spellbound swords can be differentiated from regular swords.  That would defeat the purpose of having them...

I'd rather they had to be re-equipped with actual stockpiled weapons moved to their location, and trained if equipped with a different weapon type.  I'm guessing I wont get it though.

Who knows? A lot of what I wrote I was trying to see things from a dev PoV, but my assumptions could be completely wrong.

Well, one way to solve the problem of having to track every individual unit is to train squads of units, each of which is identical and thus significantly reducing the problem. Each of these units would still have their own identification number or whatever, but to find out equipment information it could just point to the squad-wide information. Splitting a squad would be like creating a new squad.

This is one thing I want to avoid. In almost every game I've ever played, once you research higher tech, the older becomes totally obsolete, and it gets old. It'd be awesome to have the option to produce lesser quality equipment even once you can make higher quality stuff. Its advantages would be higher production rate, lower production costs and lower maintenance costs. This would add a great deal of depth, I think, at a reasonable cost of complexity. I'd prefer if this were true regarding all equipment, but as long as it's the case regarding special vs. standard weapons (ie, "Flaming Swords of Death" vs. Swords+X) I'll be satisfied.

Now, onto the hard part... How to handle upgrading with such a system. I think the best way is to require uniting troops with their new equipment. This can be done by sending the troops to a city with a store of the equipment or the ability to produce it, or by sending the equipment to the troops. The latter could require the target forces to remain stationary while the equipment travels, or not - I don't know which would be best. Either way the logistics could be largely automated. When you click upgrade, and choose what to upgrade, a list of possible methods and their time requirements can pop up and the highlighted route displayed on the map (including both troop and caravan movement, if relevant). When you choose your preferred method, the computer will make what needs to happen happen. There could even be an option for your troops to return to their previous location when upgrading is complete.

In the case of actually retraining (or further training, if possible), troops should have to be sent to an appropriate settlement - but again, the computer should assist you in finding appropriate destinations and getting your troops there (and back).

I'd be nervous about auto-upgrades....  because I wouldn't be paying attention, an auto-upgrade caravan would start on route to my army, and then the enemy would steal it.  I'd get angry,  anger quit the game, throw my PC out a window, delete the game from my Impulse account, and start a flame war on the forums.  (I lie, I wouldn't do any of those things) 

That being said, the only upgrades I can really think would be present is ensure there is a steady supply of potions or something like that.   Frogboy made it very clear there were not going to be upgrades in the same-line (+1 sword >> +2 sword or super-sword or anything like that) so you'd have to likely mod that in if you wanted it.   In terms of something like a flaming sword, I'd vote either A: you just cast a spell on the unit, or B: they would need to be trained in using a flaming sword if granted to them through a not-directly magical means.

I'm more or less with psychoak in hoping to see the normal upgrade process require direct connections between warriors, armories, and training camps. And I also don't really expect to ge my wish.

That said, the idea of using spells for field upgrades makes pretty good sense to me regardless of how the economic/production system gets implemented. If we do end up with something like Camp 3, it seems almost a necessity, at least for those of us who like to see narrative holes plugged in our game settings. Ignoring magic in this context (or almost any other?) would be like ignoring fictional technology in GC2--a very strange idea.

I don't think you are using auto-upgrade in the same context. As it was outlined in Camp 3 of the Monster Thread, as soon as you researched "+2 sword" for instance, ALL of your swordsmen in the field would be upgraded to a +2 sword.

And my initial reaction was YUCK! but it definitely simplifies things. Trying to decide if it oversimplifies, that is my first impression and as someone else pointed out - it just seems that you could park a large army outside of a town, push to get a major upgrade and then over run the town with your newly upgraded armies. It's not exactly "unfair" as you would also have to guard against this tactic, it just seems a bit cheesy and non-immersive. However, if it was done via a spell that also consumed some resource cost, that could alleviate a lot of the negatives while still getting the beneifts that *I am guessing* they were shooting for.

Pidgeon, are we related?

GW, I'm ok with having teleport casters warp the actual resources out to the troops, if you have to make the teport casters. 

I want to ignore magic, as in poof, the unit goes inactive for two days while resources are magically transported with no means of getting there.  I don't want to ignore magic, as in I researched a badass teleportation ability, outfitted some guys with it, and sent them out with my field armies to keep them supplied without needing caravans.

Supply lines add a lot of depth, vaporware supply lines defeat the purpose of having supplies.  The poof it's magic system works great in games where there isn't anything to ignore, like Gal Civ.  You make ships.  All you do as far as the components are concerned is research them.  If they actually existed, and were stockpiled in places, it would be damned irritating to be able to upgrade a ship in deep space without having a little supply ship run out there with the parts.

We have been in close agreement on eerily many issues lately, indeed...

And on that note I'd like to say that I completely agree with your last post.

You have to be careful about that.  I'm a right wing crazy with a foul mouth and no manners.

I know. We've been on opposing sides of the picket fence several times in the past, and you've called me rude things and I've thought you an uncouth ignoramus

It seems that while we tend to agree a lot about the direction of the game, we have nearly no common ground on less important, worldly matters...

Yep, I definitely think we're of quite similar minds here, if different typing styles. I questioned the idea of ignoring magic not out of love of deus ex machina tricks but because magic is both the narrative lynchpin of the game story and the fundamental context for the game mechanics.