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Demigod: Tuesday, May 19th

Demigod: Tuesday, May 19th

We were able to get the updated network update out yesterday and we turned the Pantheon and Skirmish to try to do 3 on 3 matches. balcony-officeSince so many people seem anti-bot, we are looking for ways to make that happen but the problem is, if people insist on human only then we need to provide more feedback to the user. We already get complaints from people saying it takes “too long” to get into a skirmish game (a whopping 2 minutes).  So for people who insist on human only, we need ways to make them aware that the system is working but it might take several minutes.

Skirmish and Pantheon games aren’t just about finding some random group to have you play against. It uses your ELO (experience) rating to help match along with your location to try to put together the best match possible.

One of our frustrations (and this is one of the reasons I’m not a fan of MP games in the first place) is how inconsiderate some people are.  We spent a lot of time trying to figure out why people were getting “disconnected” right when a game starts.  Well, it turns out, from looking at the logs, is that some people, having only 2 on 2 or 3 vs. 3 where an AI player had to be substituted to fill in the gap that some people just quit right at the start.  I understand the rationale but it’s still objectifying other people’s time. I won’t debate people on the issue as I think it’s a matter of agreeing to disagree.

But bottom line is that if people want to have an idealized match, it’s likely going to take more than 2 minutes and the only way to make it take more than 2 minutes is to provide more feedback so that’s what the team is working on today.

Proxy tomorrow

So besides having more feedback telling you how many people are looking for games which lets us increase the time to find an ideal match, we also plan to have tomorrow’s update have the proxy server. This should eliminate the last problems for connectivity except for the case where people have multiple IP addresses which is still being worked on.

More info please

Some people have said “I used to be able to connect fine, now I can’t.”  We really  need data from those people in the form of their impulsereactor.log files (located in my documents\my games\gpg\demigod) which you can send to [email protected] with (ideally) a description of what happened and whether you used to be able to connect so we can see.  At this point, people shouldn’t be having any problems connecting other than those with router issues.

The Documentary

Once we concluded that we were going to have to write our own multiplayer system for Demigod and that it would have to be done not in a matter of months but a matter of days or a week or two we knew that crazy hours were going to be involved. So we video’d it.  We hope to release in the next week or so a documentary video so you can see the innards of Stardock and what was involved.

Here are some images from it:

 

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Marketing meeting

 

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Management meeting in late April when it was decided to assign the Impulse team to develop a new system.

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My daughter Ashley visits me at work

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Our chief architect, Jeff Bargmann and his Impulse team merges with the Elemental development leads to create a new network system.  The application team had already gotten somewhat involved by creating the “Impulse Overlay” that allowed us to inject new screens into Demigod.

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Elemental team can’t resist but show off what they’re doing.

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Found a baby turtle while taking a walk outside

370,492 views 116 replies
Reply #76 Top

^But decreases stability (until it's fixed) :p

Reply #77 Top

Quoting RamzaBehoulve, reply 25
So just because Blizzard is that much better, they can't be used as comparison? Kind of a flawed logic if you ask me.
Demigod is in direct competition with Blizzard and its upcoming Stracraft 2. GPG and Stardock were lucky Blizzard only announced Beta for SC2 instead of a release date, otherwise we all know what would have happened.
If you want to make a RTS or a MMORPG, you go in direct competition with Blizzard and that's whom you'll be compared to.

I agree that comparing to the best helps people strive to be the best, however there are factors in this situation to be considered; namely the fact that this is GPG and Stardock's first multiplayer centered title. If you remember the launch of Diablo, you'll remember Battle.net was shacky to begin with and while it is now the multiplayer service to compare to, when it launched they were learning as they went as well. Your essentially comparing a one month old service to a 10 year old service that has grown with the help of some of the most successful games of all time. This is fairly unreasonable in my mind.

Comparing Demigod to Starcraft II would be like comparing Final Fantasy to The Elder Scrolls. Kinda, sorta, possibly simillar, but not really. They both have their fans.

Reply #78 Top

Loved the Elemental screenshot :)

Reply #80 Top

I completely missed the Fallout 3 bobble head in the pic of Jeff first time around.

Reply #81 Top

Frankly, blaming it on the user population and saying WC3 is 3rd in franchise with millions of users is a weak argument.

What do you think I'm telling my friends right now following your answer?

"No, don't come, not enough people to get you a match going in less than 5min". And most likely answer "Ouch, sucks, used to be able to play in 30s on WC3".

I would say you need to learn your numbers.

If one game has 5 million players and the other game only has 100,000 players then it will take longer for the smaller game to make matches.

Duh?

Reply #82 Top

So just because Blizzard is that much better, they can't be used as comparison? Kind of a flawed logic if you ask me.

Demigod is in direct competition with Blizzard and its upcoming Stracraft 2. GPG and Stardock were lucky Blizzard only announced Beta for SC2 instead of a release date, otherwise we all know what would have happened.

If you want to make a RTS or a MMORPG, you go in direct competition with Blizzard and that's whom you'll be compared to.

Helloooo?

What they are saying is that how long it takes to make a match has nothing to do with the game or its technology but strictly the number of players.

What do you expect them to do? Wave a magic wand? Try getting an auto matched dota game going. oh wait, you can't.

Reply #83 Top

Quoting Xan, reply 7

What do you expect them to do? Wave a magic wand?

Yes.  Stardock:  Please create paying, human players from thin air.  Maybe you can use those superpowers.  Thank you.

Reply #84 Top

We need skirmish options.  I should be able to set the mode, number of players, and map to narrow down the results.  If suitable partners can't be found quickly, I should get a prompt showing the game information I'm about to be entered into where I can choose if it's OK.

Reply #85 Top

Demigod is in direct competition with Blizzard and its upcoming Stracraft 2. GPG and Stardock were lucky Blizzard only announced Beta for SC2 instead of a release date, otherwise we all know what would have happened.

 

What are you smoking?  No, they aren't!

Reply #86 Top

What do you expect them to do? Wave a magic wand?
Due to ongoing litigation I am no longer allowed to wave my magic wand.  Sorry.  :omg:

Reply #87 Top

Yeah, that kind of thing is usually frowned upon in public.

Reply #88 Top

Quoting Xan, reply 6

Frankly, blaming it on the user population and saying WC3 is 3rd in franchise with millions of users is a weak argument.
What do you think I'm telling my friends right now following your answer?

"No, don't come, not enough people to get you a match going in less than 5min". And most likely answer "Ouch, sucks, used to be able to play in 30s on WC3".

I would say you need to learn your numbers.

If one game has 5 million players and the other game only has 100,000 players then it will take longer for the smaller game to make matches.

Duh?

100k and 5 million makes no difference. Once you reach the treshhold of about 5k simultaneous users, a single entity (here a player) becomes unaware of the difference between 5k and 50k simultaneous users.

Battleforge has 3k people online at most during peak with at most 1k playing PvP. It takes less than 30s to get a random 2v2 going.

DoW 2 certainly does not have more than 5-6k simulatenous users either, out of peak times, it still takes less than a minute for random 3v3.

Phenomic and Relic aren't Blizzrad.

Stop taking whatever Frogboy says as granted and pure truth. Always take it with a grain of salt because no matter how much he wants to be honest, he is still here to promote Demigod.

It IS a problem with their matchmaking technology it's taking so long, not with the number of users. The way they constructed it makes number of users matter, not the other way around. They were so concentrated on diminishing lag that trying to figure the best possible options out of thousands takes too long. Testing ping for hundred of users is a a nightmare. Other games do not care about the latency, they just match you with your ELO and that's it. If you are a european playing during US peak time, you'll almost never get a patnehon match within 2min because of this. The game will try to match US players with US players first.

And it does not matter if Diablo II first Multiplayer experience was flakey. Demigod does NOT compete with first hours of Diablo II, it's competing with today's Battle.net, today's Battleforeg servers and today's DoW 2 matchmaking.

Stop making up excuses for them, it's pathetic.

Yes, Stardock and GPG are doing their best, yes it will be much better in the days to come, but it doesn't change the fact OTHER games are working perfectly fine RIGHT NOW and have been for a while now.

I never had any problem with DG, I used to be an IT Admin, so I know how to configure my computer and router, but little joe in his home does not, does not care to learn it and even less care about Frogboy's explanations about anything, let alone even know about the forums. Poor Joe launches game, it doesn't work or feels like an eternity, logs off and goes to play or do something else, never coming back.

I'm playing little Joe here, not the IT admin. A little Joe with some Internet knowledge will see WC3 or DoW 2 working fine and DG not and ask what the hell is happening. And little joe is not happy with just "not enough users online". In fact, he'll take it as "Oh I see, noone's playing because the game sucks, should have known it, won't buy Stardock games anymore, back to X game that's working correctly then".

Again, I never had a problem, but others do and "not enough users online" does not cut it as an answer for anyone, especially one without much bknowledge like our little Joe.

I'm not trying to bash Froboy or Stardock or GPG, I know how much it sucks to develop games on PC with so many different hardwares and softwares out in the world, but do you seriously think the customer lambda buying the game cares about that? No,he does not, he just wants to play and quickly because time is money.

Reply #89 Top

Quoting RamzaBehoulve, reply 25



Quoting Tidus1492,
reply 24

I somewhat agree but the latest updates of the past week make the matchmaking pretty decent.  Also, you can't expect any company to compare to Blizzard.  That's like asking a ball player to hit as many homeruns as sammy sosa on steroids.  


So just because Blizzard is that much better, they can't be used as comparison? Kind of a flawed logic if you ask me.

Demigod is in direct competition with Blizzard and its upcoming Stracraft 2. GPG and Stardock were lucky Blizzard only announced Beta for SC2 instead of a release date, otherwise we all know what would have happened.

If you want to make a RTS or a MMORPG, you go in direct competition with Blizzard and that's whom you'll be compared to.

 

No what he is saying is because blizzard has been around for over 10 years and has gotten they're shit together you can't really compare them to demigod where this is they're first adventure into a online centered game.

Thats like if I went to store and there was a girl selling cookies outside. I eat one and it tastes like crap so I yell. "AHHH What is wrong with you!! AHHHH!!!! Look in that store at all the companys that sell cookies and why do yours taste like crap?!?!" She's new to making cookies she didn't know what the hell she was doing.

Reply #90 Top

Quoting Gallifray, reply 14

Thats like if I went to store and there was a girl selling cookies outside. I eat one and it tastes like crap so I yell. "AHHH What is wrong with you!! AHHHH!!!! Look in that store at all the companys that sell cookies and why do yours taste like crap?!?!" She's new to making cookies she didn't know what the hell she was doing.

And so what? People will see noone is buying her cookies because they taste like crap and go buy the ones from the store. Do you think people will show sympathy just because she is new to the business? Please, real life is not a fairy tale.

We must not be living in the same world.

Reply #91 Top

Quoting RamzaBehoulve, reply 15




And so what? People will see noone is buying her cookies because they taste like crap and go buy the ones from the store. Do you think people will show sympathy just because she is new to the business? Please, real life is not a fairy tale.

We must not be living in the same world.

 

Lol that wasn't my point the point was blizzard is the cookie company who knows how to make cookies(Online) right because thay have been doing it forever and learned from they're mistakes. GPG is the girl with the crappy cookies(Online) outside still learning how to cook in her easy-bake oven. It's not fair to compare they're online game status.

Reply #92 Top

To be honest I used to like these updates but in a way I feel like I am sort of getting a little jaded.  When the game first came out there were problems and I thought, "It's ok, they will fix them soon" and as I saw the updates coming I thought this should be fixed in no time.  Now though, weeks later it seems that the updates are becoming more and more defensive and excuse like.  I understand that there are not as many users, but if that is the limiting factor then I might as well cash in my chips now because if the system is limited due to that reason then no one is ever going to want to join because it will be a "I'll wait until there are enough players before I start playing Demigod" mentality and then everyone will sit on their hands NOT buying the game.

I think the game is great, I just cannot seem to get Pantheon to work very well, or skirmish for that matter and there are only ever like 10 games total in custom (sometimes there are more but maybe not at the times I play) and a lot of them are EU or US West (I am East).

I guess you can keep the updates coming, but please make improvements fast and send out the coupons already so we can try and get our friends playing.

Reply #93 Top

I actually believe that stardock will somehow manage to fix the problems, something i myself have only just recently experienced, after all the dramas that have gone on. Seems they have their heads screwed on right when it comes to customer focus.

I'm managing to try out all the other player in single player atm anyway whilst it all goes down.

To play a slight devils advocate though, i've seen the stats of people playing currently online, or at least when i'm playing (late night pacific time).

What i can't understand is, the number of people playing seem to be fitting within the quite anticipated scope of players using the first, and subsequently minorly altered, alterations to the original netcode. I take it the newly made netcode is to allow the vast majority of people unable to connect initially (after all the pirate hype died down) to be able to?

It'll be interesting to see the dramas that went down with all the ridiculous amount of not much sleep on.

p.s. you gotta get that baby turtle somehow into the game!

Reply #94 Top

Quoting Gallifray, reply 16

Quoting RamzaBehoulve, reply 15



And so what? People will see noone is buying her cookies because they taste like crap and go buy the ones from the store. Do you think people will show sympathy just because she is new to the business? Please, real life is not a fairy tale.

We must not be living in the same world.

 

Lol that wasn't my point the point was blizzard is the cookie company who knows how to make cookies(Online) right because thay have been doing it forever and learned from they're mistakes. GPG is the girl with the crappy cookies(Online) outside still learning how to cook in her easy-bake oven. It's not fair to compare they're online game status.

Same thing, refer to my answer.

People WILL compare and go for the best bang for their buck.

It's like asking a woman not to compare her different lovers. She shouldn't, but she will regardless of how much you wish she didn't and pick the best.

Reply #95 Top

It seems like everyone hates the AI because other players can farm it, would there be any way to make the AI smarter? Or just a way to eliminate the AI from the match by completely dropping the character after its been found to be an AI. :dur:  

 

Reply #96 Top

Quoting RamzaBehoulve, reply 20

Same thing, refer to my answer.

People WILL compare and go for the best bang for their buck.

It's like asking a woman not to compare her different lovers. She shouldn't, but she will regardless of how much you wish she didn't and pick the best.

Okay.  Let them.  This is really a silly convorsation.  Stardock doesn't have a magic "Be better than Blizzard" button.  If you don't like it, if you want to play something else, I have news for you, you can do it!  I promise that Stardock knows that they're not Blizzard.  They're working on it.  If they aren't doing well enough for you, and you want to play another game, do it, and quit bugging us.

We should be on top of the devs, get them to fix things we think should be fixed, make recommendations, etc.  But arguing about what you think it should or shouldn't compare to is worthless.  Bottom line:  You want to play or you don't.  If you do, have fun, give the devs productive input.  If not, please go away.

Reply #97 Top

Quoting PhantomOfAres, reply 22

We should be on top of the devs, get them to fix things we think should be fixed, make recommendations, etc.  But arguing about what you think it should or shouldn't compare to is worthless.  Bottom line:  You want to play or you don't.  If you do, have fun, give the devs productive input.  If not, please go away.

I'm not the one who went into "don't compare Stardock with Blizzard" mode.

And read my posts before answering. This isn't about me.

But I'll be sure to relay your "go play something else" to as many people as I can so you are left playing with..noone? Since number of users already seem to be a problem, I doubt encouraging such action is the smartest way to go about it.

Reply #98 Top

Ok, don't compare it to battle.net and blizzard's games. Compare it with DoW2 mp. It works fine and has great matchmaking options. No big problems that i know of...

Reply #99 Top

Quoting RamzaBehoulve, reply 23

But I'll be sure to relay your "go play something else" to as many people as I can so you are left playing with..noone? Since number of users already seem to be a problem, I doubt encouraging such action is the smartest way to go about it.

Okay, I wrote up a big long thing, but I'll keep it short.  Average joe user might decide not to play.  That sucks.  If they want to know why, Frogboy's doing his best to explain why.  If people don't care, they don't care.  All you're doing is insulting, and I respectfully ask that if you have a problem (like "It's not connecting as fast as I'd like/expect"), then just say so.

Reply #100 Top

Quoting RamzaBehoulve, reply 23



Quoting PhantomOfAres,
reply 22

We should be on top of the devs, get them to fix things we think should be fixed, make recommendations, etc.  But arguing about what you think it should or shouldn't compare to is worthless.  Bottom line:  You want to play or you don't.  If you do, have fun, give the devs productive input.  If not, please go away.


I'm not the one who went into "don't compare Stardock with Blizzard" mode.

And read my posts before answering. This isn't about me.

But I'll be sure to relay your "go play something else" to as many people as I can so you are left playing with..noone? Since number of users already seem to be a problem, I doubt encouraging such action is the smartest way to go about it.

Do you really know everyone who will play or is playing demigod? Do you really? really really? No I didn't think so.