Introducing DGBanlist.com » Forum Post by alban987

I'm glad you made a thread asking if anyone actually wanted this, yet when everyone said no you still went ahead and made one? You sir are a douche nozzle.

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kryo

Join Date 05/2003

+458

I can just imagine if you can ban people for being noobish, yikes. "That Noob cost me the game, and would'nt listen to me, he's going on the ban list!" And how would a new player even know about the ban list? Or that he had to go there to "undo" the ban? He would only know he could not get into hardly any games.

These sorts of lists are bad for exactly this (and other) reasons. *Any* situation where people can accuse others without proof or the accused may not even know what's going on is a bad thing.

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Quoting Xinoxlx,

reply 10

Quoting alban987, reply 6That's kind of the point... I don't want to be part of the community that rage quits or does any other number of things to be a shit player.

Let me ask you a question. If you knew ahead of time that someone was likely to leave the first time they died would you leave them in the game or boot them before it started?
If I knew ahead of time it wouldn't be due to a banlist. (I know i'm being smart about it but...)

On the other side of it even with personal banlists someone could join a game and due to another persons banlist they're informed the players bad for whatever reason. They then ask me to kick them and the reason would be "for xxx reason," suddenly I should be listening to hearsay? For all you know the person was added when he was having a bad day or because his team-mates were morons. With a banlist there's too much that can happen that's not taken into account.

Another example what if someone was banned because they were new? Not only is that a terrible reason but it's a horrible thing to do to someone who's new to the game possible even the whole genre of game. Week or so passes and he's not a noob anymore but he can't join the "3v3 pro's only!" Cause the host is that guy who banned him when he first logged on.

You simply cannot guarentee someone won't abuse it. Although the good intention is there, the exploitability is too high for it.

If he got banned by one person who cares? Personal banlists don't really matter to anyone but that specific host. Banlist had a set of approved bans. Bans from people who were basically known to not abuse the system and those bans were basically global. The personal bans only show up one 1 persons computer.

In DotA if someone shows up and I don't have them banned myself someone will spam their reason for banning. Usually there is no reason its just "Joe is banned". At which point I just kick the person with the ban and the person stating the ban and save myself the grief. If a friend of mine has someone banned I'll kick the offender since I'm actually going to trust that they did something wrong.

It's not a perfect system, but it helps. You'd be amazed how many banned players try to show up to one of my dota games. Sometimes I'll get 10 different people I've banned trying to get in. A website isn't the answer at all but a third party ban program will help the average host keep the riff raff out. Will it keep them all out? God no, but it's better than not trying at all.

Something like this is coming anyways so no use fighting it.

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This game is all about pantheon, specially once they add clan wars. You can't pick who you fight in pantheon right now, and if a clan ends up doing a lot of dumb things it will be posted on these forums and no one will want to play a match with them. Custom games are pretty much pointless, so a "banlist" is pretty much pointless, until we get tools to make stuff like TD's. I'm sure some guy will come along and try to make a DoTA clone inside this game because this game "sucks" or whatever.

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Quoting transitive,

reply 25

with no independent means of verification of the claims on the ban list this cannot be administered in a fair way.

the only acceptable means of proof ought to be an in-game replay video of the incident. until that can be posted you should not go forward with your website.

There is actually a replay saved of the last game played. I was thinking about adding that to the ban as well... although I don't know how to play it back just yet.

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Quoting Chaoticon,

reply 1

I'm glad you made a thread asking if anyone actually wanted this, yet when everyone said no you still went ahead and made one? You sir are a douche nozzle.

I was already working on it actually. Maybe I didn't phrase that post correctly but it was meant more as a "hey, would would you guys like to see" kind of thing. I've already seen plenty of posts about people quitting and in general being assholes.

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Quoting kryo,

reply 2

I can just imagine if you can ban people for being noobish, yikes. "That Noob cost me the game, and would'nt listen to me, he's going on the ban list!" And how would a new player even know about the ban list? Or that he had to go there to "undo" the ban? He would only know he could not get into hardly any games.
These sorts of lists are bad for exactly this (and other) reasons. *Any* situation where people can accuse others without proof or the accused may not even know what's going on is a bad thing.

That's why I'm looking for feedback on what people would like to see and like not to see. I don't want people getting hosed for no reason but if you're a legitimate pain in the ass, the community should know about it.

Like I said earlier, I'm thinking about different ways to make it more community based instead of a 1 vs 1 type thing so that if there are multiple complaints about a particular person, those complaints end up higher in the list.

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Quoting InfiniteVengeance,

reply 9

Centralized banlists have not and will never work. There is an extreme lack of authority and accountability. Anyone can ban anyone effortlessly.

Additionally, there's not even any evidence - there's no replays to show what happened. Stats are bugged out so you can't even prove who was where.

This is a failure.

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When even Stardock tells you you're doing it wrong and it's bad for their game, maybe it's time to get the very big hint that, well, you're doing it wrong. Anyway, let's all just make an account and put alban on the list.

I mean clearly we have a guy here who doesn't listen to the community nor Stardock. I don't think such a player is good for the community.

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As someone who has more than once found himself on a banlist for 'rage quitting' a game due to a computer crash, I'm going to pile on my opposition for this sort of system. Too many times I've seen people, in for example DOTA, banned for petty juvinile reasons that has nothing to do with the player as an individual.

Just give it time, they're already mentioned a Karma system on the horizon.

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seriously, ever heard of 'the tyranny of the majority'? At current thats all your banlist is, a place for large groups of people to destroy the reputations of smaller groups at will.

+1

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Unmasked password fields are very much html fail.

Given this sort of mistake, it's also probable that your passwords are stored in plaintext in the database. i.e. better not use a password you use anywhere else, unless you want alban to look at them.

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I really wish Demigod had a ladder system and you got better/wose based on your wins and in game statistics. You'd automatically play with better people as you increased in skill. Think of a combonation between Wc3's automatic match making and Iccup's ladder ranking for starcraft (D- through A+).

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The Karma system doesn't seem to sound all that useful IMO.

Frogboy said about a week ago they were looking into a personal banlist in game. You ban them, they never join again so really, there's not a whole lot of sense fighting it. Use it or don't it doesnt really matter. Someone will make a working one similar to DotAs and it'll be a done deal. Whether it's in game or third party, its coming.

Again, a personal banlist is just that, personal. It pertains to one person. Not a giant issue. If you get banned for being a twat than that's on you. Maybe you shouldn't be a twat. If someone bans you for whatever reason they want with no merit, is that really a person you want to play with again anyways? He just saved you the trouble.

Approved banlists (global) come from things like TDA. A private sector of DotA made to stop leavers and things of that nature. There are set rules, if you violate them you get banned and everyone with banlist will get that ban globally. If you fucked up in TDA you're a huge moron and again, you had it coming. You chose to play in a private league and you chose to fuck up, you deserve that ban. TDA bans require a replay to prove the ban worthy so you have no leg to stand on.

So, once again. Personal bans, not a huge issue. Global bans not a huge issue.

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Quoting Dracil,

reply 12

Unmasked password fields are very much html fail.

Given this sort of mistake, it's also probable that your passwords are stored in plaintext in the database. i.e. better not use a password you use anywhere else, unless you want alban to look at them.

Where is there an unmasked password field? and no, I store them with md5. Don't be a dope.

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Quoting alban987,

reply 15

Quoting Dracil, reply 12Unmasked password fields are very much html fail.

Given this sort of mistake, it's also probable that your passwords are stored in plaintext in the database. i.e. better not use a password you use anywhere else, unless you want alban to look at them.

Where is there an unmasked password field? and no, I store them with md5. Don't be a dope.

There are only two places to enter a password.

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You people know nothing. Nothing!

I don't need a banlist. I have my little black book. When someone crosses me, their name goes in my little black book. Why does their game go into the little black book I don't hear you not asking? It's because some people and their 'orrible names must be destroyed, but only when the time is right. Ah so maybe everyone should have their own little black book? No, absolutely not. The little black book serves a very special purpose, the names within represent a placeholder for my contempt to keep me going until such a time as is proper to act on the list. We can't all become mighty rulers of technocratic empires, hunting down, imprisoning and eradicating all the names in our black books, only I can.

So instead of using a ban-list, just send me the names of bloody awful players that ruin games and I'll stick them in my little black book and deal with them later, k?

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Quoting Dracil,

reply 16

Quoting alban987, reply 15
Quoting Dracil, reply 12Unmasked password fields are very much html fail.

Given this sort of mistake, it's also probable that your passwords are stored in plaintext in the database. i.e. better not use a password you use anywhere else, unless you want alban to look at them.

Where is there an unmasked password field? and no, I store them with md5. Don't be a dope.
There are only two places to enter a password.

Hmm, fixed it. I think I changed it by accident when I put form validation on the field.

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The game does actually save a replay of your last game. I just don't know how to view it just yet.

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Bad Idea. /thread

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Quoting alban987,

reply 19

The game does actually save a replay of your last game. I just don't know how to view it just yet.

Currently no way to view it.

The problem with banlist is it's highly exploitable which is sadly what you need to ask yourself when making something like this. As the question is not whether it will be exploited, but when.

There simply has to be a better system then that. What it is I don't know yet as I haven't given it much thought.

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Quoting Ouchy Dathurts,

reply 3

If he got banned by one person who cares? Personal banlists don't really matter to anyone but that specific host. Banlist had a set of approved bans. Bans from people who were basically known to not abuse the system and those bans were basically global. The personal bans only show up one 1 persons computer.

We aren't talking about personal bans here. We are talking about general branding of every player for everyone.

Quoting Ouchy Dathurts,

reply 3

In DotA if someone shows up and I don't have them banned myself someone will spam their reason for banning. Usually there is no reason its just "Joe is banned". At which point I just kick the person with the ban and the person stating the ban and save myself the grief. If a friend of mine has someone banned I'll kick the offender since I'm actually going to trust that they did something wrong.

That's just horrible...

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Lol, this is the most pethetic thing I've ever seen. You know why people compare this game to Dota, because this is just one more thing that the idiots on Dota do.... A banlist, I'd call you a tool, but even those are useful.

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Quoting Dracil,

reply 12

Unmasked password fields are very much html fail.

Given this sort of mistake, it's also probable that your passwords are stored in plaintext in the database. i.e. better not use a password you use anywhere else, unless you want alban to look at them.

yea imagine if someone besides blizzard and ncsoft decided that matchmaking systems with competitive ladders and premade vs. premade features were a good idea and would make their game greatly more desirable to players. hey replay features are good for a game you're trying to make competitive too.

and banlists were acceptable and ineffective in DotA, because there was a good deal more anonyminity in DotA, along with more people playing. over the course of a year, a friend and i put at least 75 people on banlist for leaving, afking, feeding, or intentionally griefing. we saw very few of the people we banned, because people can easily change their "identity" and there isn't a lack of DotA games running. the only banlists that do anything are the league banlists, which have better methods of weeding people out than a single list.

in DG, a banlist would probably be as effective as a league banlist, considering it takes a while for an account name to change, and it'd save me some paper and ink when writing down the names of leavers and such.

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A banlist is fascistic. Point the finger at someone, throw the stone and pillory someone. You my friend are an idiot. Hope to be on your banlist soon.

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