You really are naive to the methods of griefers.

lol awesome!

 

MASSIVE agree.  I think this says everything that needs to be said.  Author obviously didnt think this through before posting / creating site. 

Also, how the hell is everyone supposed to know where your banlist is, or that it even exists?  I'm willing to bet that the majority of current DG players haven't even logged onto the forums yet.  Are you going to make a new post every five minutes that says 'HEY, COME LOOK AT MY BAN LIST'?  Seriously, if only a few people know about it then it's practically worthless.  Aside from that, those who don't know about it will have no idea that / why they're getting booted from a game for something on the list.  There isn't an effective way to tell someone why you're booting them from a game, especially during the setup phase.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that its EXTREMELY impractical for a player to take on this kind of task with such limited advertising and information resources.  Adding that to the other lists of things wrong with this concept, you should probably scrap the entire plan.

 

I just went to the site and posted a challenge to one of your test posts without creating an account or logging in, and it accepted my response.  So anyone can post anything for any reason with no accountability whatsoever? 

 

Probably but it boils down to effort vs reward.

 

You mean the appeal? Hmm.. It should be checking to see if you're logged in or not. Let me look.

 

That's probably correct on a few items but I wanted to bring the site up with constructive input from other people. I didn't want it to be shoe horned based on just what I thought.

 

I'm genuinely looking for input on how to make the concept better, more usable, etc so that it fits the majority of needs.

 

FYI I'm really not trying to flame your idea.  Noone likes to have their games ruined by a douchebag.  I do commend you for trying to take some action.  The problem is that, given the current circumstances, your idea won't work.  There is no way to enforce the ban list.  There is no EFFECTIVE way to validate any claims.  It will be practically impossible to make the existance of your site know to the majority of players.  The only effective solution to this problem would be a karma system, which is an idea that is being tossed around by the game developers, or some other sort of PERSONAL ban list that can be implemented in-game.  This concept is just too unwieldy to be managed and / or enforced by an individual or small group of players.  For this concept to work, it would need to be integrated into the game itself.  Otherwise it's just another random website that nobody knows about unless they happen across this post buried in the forums.

Again, I commend you for trying, but I don't think this will be worth your efforts.

Do whatever with custom games really. Tie in banlists, make a TDA, I don't really give a shit.

The issue I see is going to be once someone develops a program that will auto-kick people on such a global list from panth/skirmish games and auto-quit/rejoin panth/skirmish until it is selected as the 'host'.

For this reason, I think it is imperative that SD/GPG get it set up so we can change names at will and that no unique identifier is provided to ensure that these efforts fail. (SD/GPG would still be able to use a hash of the name you used in a given game + your game key to identify/ban you for cheating etc...)

I made a legitimate ban post - alban is indeed banned from any game I will ever host - and my ban post was removed by alban. Already, the corruption has begun. Alban obviously created this lame site so he could be some kind of bigshot lording over the DG community with everyone sucking up to him to ban their enemies and unban themselves. This whole project is sick and corrupt to the bone. GTFO and stop infecting our culture with this elitist nerdgod crap.

You sound like the guy in your avatar.

refer back to reply 101, he's right. and your comment actually supports him. the enjoyment greifers get out of turning on some scripts and using something like your site to roast someone on the internet is infinitely greater than the effort they put into it. hell, someone will probably write a script scecifically for your site. i'm already suspiscious of rejoin/host/disconnect scripts.

edit: not only is stolivodka on to something, it gives you a pretty good buzz too.

Looking at the screenshotted banlist and the current banlist, it appears we have a corrupt administrator.

If you truly want to make this an acceptable site, you need:

1) Complete transparency over the process

2) Oversight, checks and balance, etc. You should not be the final arbiter of whose ban or appeal is valid or not.  There's a reason judges are not allowed to preside over their own trials.

3) A good way of figuring out when people are just griefing (this is the hardest thing)

4) You need to understand no matter how much you believe it to be, this is not a public service you are providing.  This is politics you are getting yourself into, along with the accompanied drama.  If you are not prepared or willing to deal with that, you should shut the site down.

Or, they do understand the idea and the thinking behind it and disagree with both and have voiced their opinion. Don't be so quick to dismiss people's opinions as stupidity soley because they disagree with yours. I understand the concept, the thinking that created it and I would be more than capable of programming software to do exactly this, and I believe idea of a community run and administered Blacklist is a terrible idea


Being as Demigod is not an MMO and is infact designed to be the exact opposite, and that the idea of a Ban List originated in the days before graphics based web broswers, this entire paragraph was a waste of our combined time. Ironic, considering it's content. Furthermore, this is not strickly an argument for Blacklists - it can be twisted both ways. Being as you pointed out that people would dedicate years of their gaming time to playing this game, being Blacklisted ruined all of those years of hard work and money spent on the subscription fee, is this not an argument against a Banlist? I repeat my earlier question; what gives us the right to do this? Being called a 'n00b' in a bloody video game? Argue as you will, the concept is fundamentally flawed.


Then why did you mention the EQ Banlist, where entire servers would Blacklist people for an offense against a single person? It seems you've begun contradicting yourself. The idea of a community run Blacklist in games where an in-game Banlist is already provided or is confirmed to be "on it's way" is to, in fact, provide the ability to effect other people's Banlist; thus enters the possibility of the Global Banlist. This is a bullshit griefing tool because the concept is that if someone calls me a 'n00b' I can mass Ban them. Of course, they can then turn around and mass ban me, negating the purpose of the Blacklist to begin with. The idea of allowing any one person to directly effect another person's game experience is a bad idea; people joining games to grief other players isn't fun for anyone - however is not the Blacklist griefing by another name?


This has nothing to do with the current discussion. The concept we're discussing here, the community run Banlist, can effect people who do not agree with it's use and who signed no contract saying that they will adhere to it's use or to a particular set of rules and conditions. Thus, the concept is fundamentally flawed. I believe we agreed to a different particular set of rules however, Stardock's and Gas Powered Games'. Being as the community as a whole generally has a high opinion of Stardock and Gas Powered Games, I'm happy to let them make these kinds of decisions.

If you really care about being matched up with the wrong person then you should just make your own list of people you don't want to play with.

How cute the way he deletes everything except his "test" ban and the ban on "Xira" he posted under someone else's name. Alban is a tiny little godking on a tiny little hill, indeed!

Again, I am publicly declaring that my global ban on alban is legit and has been filed, yet it was deleted from the site. If alban is already this corrupt when he doesn't have anyone actually using the site, imagine how he'd be if hundreds of hosts used his list.

 

Are you on something?

 

the only one I made was my test one. I deleted a bunch of crap people had spammed onto it before I locked it down... like a youtube video of a turtle humping a shoe, etc.

 

I've disabled the global banlist while I work on adding some features I've talked about to it.

 

Personal banlists are working.

Working on making a 'friend' system so you can add friends and see their lists.

I deleted the user account because 'someone' thought it would be funny to spam it. So I re-worked the registration process and you need to confirm your account in order to log in. IE, can't use a fake email address.

 

Before I continue discussing this issue please take the time to fill in this simple yes or no questionaire.

 

I understand that no one will every use this site to kick anyone from a game?

I understand that what people have a problem with is a banlist, a program identical to the one used in DotA?

I understand that the banlist program has no way to kick a player once the game launches?

I understand that there is no way you can do a global ban with the banlist program?

I understand that a personal banlist is coming to DG whether I like it or not?

I understand that when I join a game I agree to play by the rules the host has set?

I understand that any player of the game has the right to not play with who he or she chooses?

I understand that the only global bans in DotA come from joining a privage league and violating the posted rules that are known to all members. These bans may only come from select approved hosts (moderators)?

I understand that those global bans are few and far between?

I understand that all of those global bans come with an archived replay to prove the worthyness of the ban?

I understand that all of these global bans come with the ability to appeal?

I understand that no sane person thinks everyone should have the right to globally ban anyone?

 

Thank you for the non-constructive comment.

You deleted my ban of you, which had a reason every bit as legit as "rage quitter". Normal, regular peons (not you or your friends) have to use that stupid "appeal" system (where you are still blacklisted, you just are allowed to have "your say"), but not alban! His ban is instantly removed without a trace. Same will go for all your friends or anyone else who sucks up to you. Nobody is buying your "I am trying to divide the community out of the kindness of my heart" agrument. It's painfully obvious that you made this as an attention grab and potential ad revenue source.

Like adding someone to the global list when 5,10,100 people add them to their personal list? Have you ever heard of Tor or hotmail? You have about as much grasp of website security as a 13-year old who creates a website just to be a bigshot in an online game.

Whoopie. You coded a site that performs all the functions of notepad, only not as well! Congrats!

Wow, that sure sounds bulletproof. (sarcasm). Good luck with that. I expect with your complete lack of php coding ability, some actual spammer will have your host server spewing out 500,000 weiner enlargement emails by tomorrow.

PS: You didn't lock down anything. Direct links to your scripts still work dandy. What kind of an idiot develops server code in a live environment? Here's a protip for you: xampp is your friend. Google it. Until your CS101 teacher covers website security, get your lame scripts off the production server. Geez..

 

You're welcome. I've already stated that people won't be using your site. I'm sorry but no one is going to alt tab to check people out and an IRC channel isn't going to get people to use it. People want a program that runs in the background and takes care of itself.

 

My questions have nothing to do with your site. I don't care for your site either. The questions are for an actual banlist program and how it operates, which people apparently don't understand. I can appreciate you trying to do something about a very old problem but I just don't think your approach is the right one. The answer for the problem can't be more archaic than the previous answer (WC3 Banlist).

alban, please stop responding to non-constructive comments, that's just going to fan the flames.

 

I've skimmed most of these responses and they all seem to be similar things.  Here's some of that constructive criticism you are after.

People would be more accepting of, and greater served by a "network of trust" style list.  

Let people have their own ban-lists and let people add each other as friends with a percentage figure that represents complete trust to no trust.

When presenting a ban list to a signed on user, form a list of all the ban's in their trust network and cull anything that's under a certain threshold (let the users configure that threshold).

 

Eg.

I have Frogboy on my list with a trust of .8

Frogboy has ToadWoman on his list with a trust of .5

Toad Woman has banned CylonLoveSlave

that ban has .5 of frogboy's .8 which is a ban threshold of .4

 

To further complicate things, lets say I also have AngstyGothErebus on my list at .2, he has also banned CylonLoveSlave.  CylonLoveSlave now has a ban threshold of .6 and when I see him in the list I should be able to drill down to a list of who has banned him, what for, and what threshold I'm getting from that person... Maybe even the chain that leads me to that ban listing.

 

That system is more or less griefer proof as you're only looking at who's pissed you or your friends off, and once you make a few good friends in the community you'll have a pretty big friend network (look at facebook and friendster to see how that works)

 

As for ban resolution, allow people to put their "in game names" into their accounts.  When a ban is added, if it matches an existing account, let the banner decide whether to notify the doucherag or not and give some sort of PM functionality for the two users to communicate in case there's a misunderstanding in which case the banner can elect to remove the ban.

 

Such a system will be a bit more work for you, but it'll provide a lot more value and will probably be interesting to build and analyse

Non-constructive!? Even a member of Stardock thinks that alban should take the site down. Sometimes, the most "constructive" thing you can do when dealing with a really, REALLY bad idea is just put it out of its misery.

The system that you propose is dumb, because when confronted with a rating between 0 and 10, just about everyone chooses either 0 or 10. You want a guy who doesn't even know how to sanitize his form inputs to code up this crazy complicated system just so that everyone who joins will have alban as their default "friend" with a trust of 100% and everyone he doesn't like is globally banned.

Drama, politics and administrator corruption - Just what this community needs! What was that someone said earlier about getting your DotA culture out of our game?

I'm assuming this part refers to the solution I proposed... It's hard to tell as your post does not indicate that you've read/understood the idea.

I don't automatically assign 100% trust to all of my friends, nor do my friends assign 100% trust to their friends.  I don't CARE what "most everyone" does because I only see things that appear in my own network of trust.

 

Your attacks on the competency and trustworthiness of alban detract from your post.  If he can't do a good job of it, people won't use it.  If he builds something that he then uses as his own personal soap box, people won't use it.

try to separate your arguments into paragraphs.  There's the debate over whether it's a good idea or not, and there's the debate over whether alban is the right guy to be building it or not.  

The former argument is one I'm willing to engage in, the latter is just nasty insults that I don't think any of us should be engaging in.