Yeah, I can see what you mean. I think JJ Abhrams was trying to combine the revenge plot of Star Trek II and the over all comedic nature of IV, with a little bit time travel thrown in for good measure. It feels like a hybrid of multiple trek themes and the serious revenge and suspense behind Nero was heavily compromised as a result.

Sure after 25 years one can agree that the screws might become loose. But at the time he surely must have been trust worthy ( by Romulan standards) or he would not have been in command. Additionally one would think he would orient himself to the new timeline almost immediatly.

OK i am writing this as a watch the movie.

>> chick from house? come on... (-)

>> beastie boys? come on... (-)

>> i am sick of the gay music and the stupid chase cameras already... (-)

>> at least kirk likes to fight and seems to be a womanizer... (+ +)

>> Bana, as almost always usual, is bad ass... (+)

>> spaceships look bad ass... (+)

>> Chekov cool, Spock douche... (+ -)

>> i don't know why people were complaining how the romulan ship caused the debris, they explained it well... ( = )

>> transporters are gay now... (-)

>> Nimoy Spock's story, awesome... (+)

>> i like the retro throwback of the phasers and tricorders and stuff and throwback uniforms... (+)

>> i dislike Scotty's actor... (-)

>> Nimoy's ending made it great... (+)

So that is -6 and +8; therefore, I like the movie. I still think I prefer TNG, but that being said, I can get on board with this crew, as long as it doesn't get any more gay.

that's my $0.02

Well, except for porn, but if you think I'm going to get into THAT.......

Seriously, though, this "gay" thing is getting a bit out of hand. I don't want these forums to wind up like my health class.

They have done that too, cant remember the episode though. The issue usually is that it takes a lot more energy and computing power to do those tricks with the transporter then the standard we all usually see.

Very much liked it as a stand-alone movie, absolutely hated it for the way it radically alters the established Trek timeline and blows overs so many established details and relationships. In too many ways, this movie has absolutely nothing to do with the Trek we fans know and love. They pretty much ignored 43 years of established Trek history.

I think they're going to have to write another movie, where they go back and patch up the timeline, so it falls back in with the established history of the Star Trek universe. Trek has a huuuuuuuuge, and obsessed, fan base; they're seriously screwing with that fan base here, and that's a big risk.

I don't think this can be compared to Enterprise, though.

ENT made a handful of changes to established continuity in TOS and TNG, but for the most part the only continuity it messed with was "fanon/licensed continuity". An example would be the Klingon ridges. An unofficial explanation was provided in a book somewhere, and at that point people just accepted it because it was never really established in the official continuity. Suddenly it is established officially though, and people might get a little annoyed about ENT messing with 'established' continuity. Not saying there aren't changes in ENT, but I don't think there are drastically more than, say, any other ST series.

Whereas this... I get the feeling it was designed as a reboot, but the producers realized it would be better to pitch it as an alternate universe story. So they created the blanket 'alternate universe' explanation for all their changes- but made additional changes that aren't really explanable by the alternate universe explanation. So the alternate universe doesn't look like an alternate timeline really should.

For what it's worth, I agree- great movie. But not as good as a Star Trek story.

Are we all forgeting about Keenser? HEY YOU GET DOWN FROM THERE! :Shakes head:. Great action movie, with great humor.

Cannon driven argumentatives were dismissed as soon as the Kelvin failed against a ROMULAN warbird prototype caught by and within a timeline on purpose -- fair enough?

The error is not from design(s), it is by fans' interpretation of *A* different future or past, uncloaking when it matters.

The only thing that I didnt understand was why you have to drill a hole to the center of a planet THEN release a black hole in the middle of it.

Wouldnt drilling a hole to the center of a planet pretty much destroy it anyhow?  And probably in a particularly more unpleasant way, which would most likely appeal to someone hell-bent on revenge.

Or why couldnt you simply release the red matter NEAR the planet.  As long as the planet was inside the event horizon, it would still get consumed, you dont have to put the black hole IN the planet.

Of course, its a movie, and what good would a movie be without long, drawn out plots to kill the good guys.  Here's to you ever James Bond film ever made!

Now, that i've seen the film for myself - i can only blame a few seconds of inattention on your part Spooky, just like the "young" couple 10 seats to my left who were mostly kissing for the entire movie (Why did they have to hide in a dark place is their business, but if Cinemas took the cell-phones out i think they should resolve such issues because i TOO like sound effects but from dolby speakers.)

Engineering? With that much crew aboard, spaceships probably have the molecules to clench a thirst for long period of times.

Beaming? Scotty got some of these tricks from a stranded Ambassador Spock.

Story? See Beaming.

That doesnt explain anything at all...even in Zyx-world.

Divers cannot go below a certain depth because the pressure causes all sorts of problems.  Yet if I had the capacity to create a black hole say, 5000 ft above the surface of the planet VS drilling a hole and placing it at the center of the planet, the overall effect would be the same, total destruction of said planet.  And the 1st scenario would be easier done.  Of course, in the movie they were a "simple" mining vessel, so of course they had to have some reason to use the drill bit.  To a man with a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

UPDATE: I think what Zyx is saying is that he thinks the black hole would somehow expend its energy before it reached the ckore, which DOES make a strange sort of sense when you consider Hawking radiation and the fact that electrical charges CAN "strip" a hole. However, it does not stand up to the math, at least not for Earth and probably not for a lot of planets.