Nemikan Nemikan

In-Depth Analysis of the Game

In-Depth Analysis of the Game

Excluding the networking issues and bugs, heres my analysis of the game currently and how to improve it.


Hero Critiques

Unclean Beast:

  •     Beastial Wrath - lasts too short, should last 10-15 seconds with a cooldown of 20 seconds, has a cast time, too situational - only good for siege or a prolonged fight.
  •     Unrelenting Wrath - worthless unless Beastial Wraith is improved with 0 cast time, or lasts longer.

Logic:

The issue With Beastial Wrath is that more often than not you end up getting stunned. When you are not stunned, your often times casting Venom Spit or Fowl Grasp. This causes the ability to be fairly worthless if stunned for 2 seconds, and your casting abilities for another 2 seconds. This leaves 3 seconds of attacks, assuming you are within melee range. If you manage to fight in melee range for a full 7 seconds, then the move becomes worthwhile, but between getting stuned, slowed, and being unable to reach them in melee, the move is lackluster in comparison to others.

Torch Bearer:

  •     Deep Freeze - should not consume effects, or if it consumes effects should deal a lot more damage. Currently fairly weak and requires other spells to be cast first for dealing a weak amount of damage. Casting all 3 costs a lot of mana
  •     Fire and Ice - should be linked with Frost Nova or Rain of Ice to be worthwide to use with fire.

Logic:
Deep Freeze is worthless for a hybrid spec with fire, it requires frost moves to shatter, and thus is based on being utilized for fire and ice. Each effect consumed deals 325 damage, and getting a 3x shatter can be a bit difficult. Frost Nova must be used first since it lasts 5 seconds, then rain of ice lasting 10 seconds, and then into shatter. If the TB gets stunned before it for 3 seconds, that leaves 2 seconds + cast time delay / lag. Its doable, but fairly tight and unable to be done if you get stunned twice.

Rook:

  •     Boulder Roll - A bit costly on mana


Lord Erebus:

  •     Bite - Cooldown needs to be increased to at least 9 seconds, up the mana cost for balance, to at least 500, 700, 900, 1200 per rank.
  •     Bat Swarm - Too expensive on mp, reduce as follows: 500, 700, 800. Range should slightly increase at max rank. Possibly reduce the damage to make up for the range increase. Having this move makes mist a bit weak in terms of aoe. Mist is more of utility than damage.
  • Note: Currently Bite is the strongest move in the game. For the mana cost, cooldown, debuffs, life drain it is a ridiculously overpowered move which is what makes the Lord so strong. Buffing bat swarm slightly and nerfing bite should make him a more balanced hero.

Logic:
Next to be added. Main logic behind Bite, currently at the max rank it is 595 mp. This is an insanely low cost move, and thus It seems to need to be increased. I'll compare it to Sedna's heal, and TB fireball. The cooldown I would increase primarily for the benefit of the heal. If the heal was reduced, there is not a need for reducing the cooldown.

Regulus:

  •     Deadeye - needs a higher percentage and/or a longer stun. For a 15 pt skill is fairly weak
  •     Despite people's complaints snipe seems balanced to me. Only issue is that using when someone teleports seems a bit too strong, although makes teleporting a bit weaker (which I feel needs to happen)
  •     Explosive Mines have slightly too large of a range.

Sedna:

  •     Hp / second skills all combined with her heal seems a bit too powerful.
  •     Inner Grace - Convert the hp / second into mana / second
  •     Pounce - For a support hero with the hp regen and healing she has, this move seems a bit too powerful. The move has a short cooldown, and interrupts casting. Reduce damage to at least 700. The damage per rank should increment by 100, starting at 400.
  •     Horn of the Yeti - Minons cost way too much mana to summon. Cost per rank as follows: 400, 550, 700, 900
  •     Counter Healing - a bit weak, possibly convert enemy healing into damage - a priest healing for 400 would instead deal 100 damage to the target they were healing, a rate of 1/4 of the heal on demigods, the full heal on non-demigods.
  •     Heal - Raise mana cost by at least 150 per rank.

    Logic:

           Currently with talents Sedna has +48 Hp/sec and a heal. Converting the one from hp to mp would allow her to heal more with her actual heal, and would generate hp per second much less, in total 24 per second instead of 48. By converting her other hp per second to mp per second, she would be healing more with her castable, cd heal vs. passive healing. This would require her to stop running around, stop to heal, and put her main heal on cooldown. Raising the mana cost on heal by 150 mp would also help to make sure this mp gain is not too powerful.

           The other major change would be reducing pounce's damage to 700. While this seems fairly strong of a nerf, the buff to Counter Healing helps to even it out.

Currently priest healing:

Rank 1
200 health to non-demigods
10% of max demigod health.

Rank 4:
290 health to non-demigods
15% of max demigod health.


Oak:

  •     Spirit Frenzy - Increase proc rate to at least 15% or increase the duration once proced.
  •     Moves should debuff more than they currently do.
  •     Divine Justice - should proc from spirit / minion kills
  •     Penitence - increase the effects of damage taken to 20%, slightly increase mana cost by 50 per rank.
  •     Surge of Faith - Slightly increase the damage to at least 650. Increase the duration of the buff or convert the buff to a passive aura.
  •     Rally - should heal for more than 1000 hp, at least 2000 hp - lvl 15 move should be stronger
  •     Shield - Rebalance rank increases:
           Shield 1 - no change
           Shield 2 - 4 seconds, 500 mp, removes debuffs
           Shield 3 - 5 seconds, 600 mp, removes debuffs, heals for 300
           Shield 4 - 6 seconds, 700 mp, removes debuffs, heals for 600
           Purity - After the shield wears off, decreases damage taken by 30% for 3 seconds.
  •     Personally feel he is the weakest hero - seems like a tank but is not that great of a tank currently.
  •     *He seems like he should have another aura, maybe change surge of faith to also give the movement speed and attack speed bonuses as an aura.

    Logic:

                Oak currently can be fairly powerful if he gets consistant hits on a target, and is able to chase them for fairly long periods of time. He is also very strong "post death". His aoe healing move is very powerful, and his shield is very strong as well. His weakness is his damage is fairly weak, and his nukes are not very powerful. Rally being so late in the tree, it seems fairly weak at that stage in the game. Killing a demigod should not happen very often, but when it does, and it only heals for 1000 hp over 5 seconds it seems a bit weak for a move so late in the tree. His spirits I have yet to see used as a gamebreaker, and thus the +15% increase should help to even the playing field. The amplification of damage on Penitance is the biggest buff. While it is not a huge difference it allows him and everyone else to be dealing a great deal more to a target. Currently one of the main problems with his shield is a quick burst being cast as your shield is ending. Due to this problem, having a 3 second decrease in damage allows him to prevent this.


Queen of Thorns:

  •     Uproot / Violent Siege is horrible, compared to Rook's Structural Transfer which currently is not used that often. This move is absolutely worthless.
  •     Spike Wave - Should move faster in comparison to other hero's ranged moves, should move about the same speed as the Rook's Boulder Throw.
  •     Tribute - by time you level up that high, tribute is a fairly weak skill. either dramatically increase the gold earned (at least 10 /s or more), increase for the team, or replace with a better skill - Prefer it would be replaced.
  •     Entourage - should improve all minons, maybe by half the amount as the shamblers.
  •     Summon Shamblers - rebalance
            Summon Shamblers 1 - summons 2, 2 max, 450 mp - lvl 1 requirement
            Summon Shamblers 2 - summons 2, 4 max, 550 mp - lvl 4 requirement
                    passively gives shamblers +10 movement speed
            Summon Shamblers 3 - summons 4, 4 max, 800 mp - lvl 6 requirement
            Should combine an end rank with Entourage for a new move:
                  Shambler Army - Shamblers hp/sec +20, and each hit reduces movement speed of your target by 10%.
                         When you cast a spell all Shamblers gain +20% attack speed for 5 seconds.
  • Note:     Currently making Shamblers worthwhile requires too many talent points. The Queen of Thorns appears to be a fairly heavily minion based hero, but due to the the issue requiring ranks for the shamblers and not global minion buffs, this currently does not occur.

    Logic:

       The Queen of Thorns has by far the weakest nukes in the game. As such, it appears that she should be heavily minion based, or support. Her absorption shield is very powerful, but that is the only support move she has. Thus, minions are her greatest strength, and it seems as if it should be buffed for survivability and a slight bit of damage. Minions currently die from AOE fairly quickly, everytime I run into combat my minions end up fully dead, shamblers without Entourage end up dead as well. With the buff the shamblers are able to survive a bit longer, they can be useful but still are lacking damage since the Queen's nukes are not very strong currently. In order to use the Queen's nukes the Queen is forced to switch forms which has a casting delay. Due to this problem, her damage is needed to be delt by her minions. The options would be to buff her minions or buff her damage attacks. Buffing the damage attacks would lose the uniqueness of the Queen, and thus it would be better to buff the minions.


Improvements:

  • Ability to see shops / citidal upgrades without having to be next to it.
  • Level up display to be more transparent, or shrunken to be able to see the main window while leveling up
  • Angels need to attack more vs. fly around
  • Only 3 items improve speed, the cheapest is 1k but no other stats
  • Better Item tooltips, showing how much an item will increase your dps, hp/s, mp/s with your current stats.
  • assign groups for units, such as cntl-1
  • Hero is difficult to select without minions - mwaicromangagement with minions is difficult
  • When dead, you should still be able to browse shops, your Citadel and your skills that are within your seeable range.


Needing better descriptions:

  • Building Fire Power citadel upgrade: "and splash damage" is given with each level, does this increase the aoe, and/or dmg?
  • Rook's towers: benefits from citadel upgrades? linking towers does what?
  • Rook's Independent firing towers
  • Queen of Thorn's compost, does it improve with rank? current tooltip shows no improvement.
  • minion stats - Yeti, Night Walkers, Spirits, Shamblers, purchased minions
  • Vampiric Aura - what percentage of lifesteal?
  • What does / doesn't stack?


Balance:

  • Increase the cost of capture lock and teleport scrolls, probably 400g each instead of 250
  • Need more inexpensive items that passively buff regen
  • Citadel Upgrade: Experience - as time goes on, this upgrade becomes worse - the cost should justify this change. All ranks besides the first should be much cheaper.
  • Attribute bonuses for skill upgrades seem a little weak, consider buffing, possibly doubling.
  • "Warp" items are very weak, they should have a range of 25 yards. Currently the cost is too expensive for the small range of teleportation. 2 Warp items currnetly exist, one costs 5500 - Warpstone, and the other costs 12000 - The Cloak of Elfkind.


     General Heroes:

  • Unable to play with a minion build currently, items + minions cost too much and required to survive against Heroes & Towers AOE
  • Are not many cheap items with minion bonuses, those that do exist give many hero stats causing the price of the item to cost more
  • Should be weaker at killing heroes, but stronger at attacking bases / random enemies.


Forces of Light vs. Dark:
Light = Regulus, Rook, Oak, Sedna
Dark = Unclean Beast, Torchbearer, Lord Erebus, Queen of Thorns
Dark > Light - reasoning as follows:

  • Light's strength is survivability - healer + oak shields + high hp
  • Dark's strength is damage & aoe - torchbearer + unclean beast have the best aoe
  • Light has next to no aoe:
       Sedna has at lvl 20 yeti aoe
       Regulus has mines and wings - best aoe for light
       Oak has a weak aoe
       Rook has his Hammer, made for single targets but is slightly aoe, rock throw can at times work for aoe.
  • Difficult to counter Erebus & Queen of Thorn's minions due to the lack of aoe
  • Stuns - all dark heroes have a triggerable stun, Regulus and Sedna do not
         light side ends up getting stunned much more
         fairly balanced still - since Sedna have a silence, Regulus has mark of the betrayer
  • Light generals are fairly heavily support - dark Queen of Thorns is somewhat support, Lord Erebus is not support at all
        This causes all light teams to need rook or regulus for damage, dark can use any set of heroes and it will work
  • Dark better at killing heroes, Light is better at Sieging
        Benefits Dark - Dark can hold middle while it is more difficult for light to get across the map to siege

New Content:

  •   A personal ranking system for people you play with, with an editable note field
  •   Move-Attack: preventing having to click on targets in order to kill them.

 

131,681 views 44 replies +2 Loading…
Reply #26 Top

Obviously balance testing with AI is useless because even on nightmare the AI is really dumb - so it needs to be done with real people in multiplayer - so until the multiplayer bugs and connection issues are sorted out, I think all of these calls for nerfs etc are unwarranted.
End of quote


This analysis is all done based on playing multiplayer games.

Reply #27 Top

Oak and Unclean Beast do NOT need buffing.

Reply #28 Top

This analysis is all done based on playing multiplayer games.
End of quote

 

How many games sir?

How long of a period were the games tested sir?

Was there a control?

What model was used for a control, and why do you justify using it.

Were the teams 100% even in skill?

Were the teams arranged between players who know every single advantage inside out, with full comprehensibility of their demigods?

Who played?

How many different people played?

What were team sizes?

How many different games were played in each separate size?

What maps were played?

How many different times was each map played?

Was map balanced accounted for?

Was gear factored into this balance?

What gear was used on each demigod?

How many different gear setups were used?

What team combinations were tested?

What logic was used to justify each match up of demigods to conclude any imbalances?

Who are you to say that said match ups justify perfect balance class vs class?

Who are you?

Do you believe yourself to be a messiah doing god's work for stardock, finding all of these imbalances none of us simpletons could ever hope to do?

Why are we so inferior to you?

Can I have your shoe?

What time is it?

What time is it now?

What's todays date and what significance does that have on these questions?

What is the time now?

Are you jesus, or a lunatic with a messiah complex?

CHICKEN

OR

THE

EGG

WHYYYYYYYYYYYYY

 

+1 Loading…
Reply #29 Top


Unclean Beast:


    Ooze - Weak compared to Post Mortem. Needs to not cost hp, have increased damage, a huge atk speed reduction, or a new effect.

End of quote
Firstly, Ooze already has a ASR (attack speed reduction). It's 40% at level 4, which is HUGE. Secondly, Ooze does 140dps, that ignores armour, to everything nearby (at level 4). Spit does slightly more then 150dps at level 4. 

And Post Mortem is completely useless in DGvDG fights, while Ooze is SUPER DUPER useful in DGvDG fights. 

Oh, also, Ooze melts creeps. Nearly forgot. :]

Considering this is your first suggestion, I'm going to assume the rest are just as bad. 

Reply #30 Top

One other thing to consider is that for the most part this is not a Demigod vs Demigod game, so for abilities like Bite you need to take into account that you can't use it on buildings - wherase abilites like pounce you can.

 

There is much more to balance than 1v1 demigod fights.  This is why balance is such a tricky thing

Reply #31 Top

Quoting Extacide,

snip
 
End of Extacide's quote

 

 

qft

Reply #32 Top

Quoting liq3, reply 4

quoting post
Unclean Beast:


    Ooze - Weak compared to Post Mortem. Needs to not cost hp, have increased damage, a huge atk speed reduction, or a new effect.

Firstly, Ooze already has a ASR (attack speed reduction). It's 40% at level 4, which is HUGE. Secondly, Ooze does 140dps, that ignores armour, to everything nearby (at level 4). Spit does slightly more then 150dps at level 4. 
And Post Mortem is completely useless in DGvDG fights, while Ooze is SUPER DUPER useful in DGvDG fights. 

Oh, also, Ooze melts creeps. Nearly forgot. :]

Considering this is your first suggestion, I'm going to assume the rest are just as bad. 
End of liq3's quote

 

I did not realise realise the attack speed reduction was that huge. But for the cost of 50 hp/s to deal 140 hp/sec in damage, the aoe comes at a price. In terms of fighting creeps, the plague from post mordom spreads like crazy, and has a larger aoe range than Ooze. In knowning that the attack speed reduction is that huge, it makes up for the cost. Ooze is a fairly good choice between post mordom with this new insight, and I'll revise my original post accordingly.

Reply #33 Top

there's a lot i disagree with, so i'll just go with what i agree with..

i agree with:

- bite: i think the MP cost is fine, but the cooldown cycles a little bit too quickly.

- sedna's minions are way too costly in terms of mana (for starters)

- QoT siege abilities seem lackluster

- shambler rank 4 needs to add something more.

- bestial wrath seems fairly weak for early and midgame

- minions should proc demigod specific abilities when killing mobs (see divine justice, for one).

- interface polish is needed overall.

Reply #34 Top

Erm.. I'm sorry but I think you have a total disconnect with the balance of the game. 

I'm glad I'm not the only one that sees this too.  But I'll break it down.  I'm also glad to see people can see how many of these are so wrong, yet there aren't really complaints about what i've posted at http://forums.demigodthegame.com/348135 (though I've posted much more conservative things.).  So gives me some.. reassurance that people actually read these and can see what balance suggestions are good or not!

Where to start..

Beastial Wrath - lasts too short, should last 15 seconds or more with a cooldown of 20 seconds, has a cast time, too situational - only good for siege or a prolonged fight.
End of quote

Really?  Did you do the math?  The 0.5 sec cast  is like 1 or half an attack. Lets say you attack once per second.  In 2 seconds you'd do the equivalent of 3.3 hits of damage instead of 2 hits.You lost 0.5 hits of damage.  In merely 2 seconds, you have a net gain of 0.8 hits of damage. 80% more.

In 7 seconds your gain is another 4 hits of damage.  You only lost 0.5 of a hit.  This is about 60% more damage.

At level 1 your gain is 1.25 hits.  This assumes 1 attack per second.  Not as good as maxed, but that's just the nature of the skill, it requires investment.

So how is it useless?  You have to adjust how you play with it, not want it changed to how you play.

Boulder Roll - A bit costly on mana
End of quote

For the longest range stun in the game that hits multiple targets and has a fairly quick cooldown compared to other stuns?

Bite - Cooldown needs to be increased to at least 12 seconds, up the mana cost for balance, to at least 500, 700, 900, 1200 per rank.
End of quote

This is not a SLIGHT nerf at ALL.  You're talking about cutting the damage by 40%.  That'd make it even worse than beta(about the same DPS, but less debuff)

Not to mention, most Demigods having a 7 second cooldown skill is good for gameplay since it requires more input from the users.  You have to keep track of your cooldowns so you can use them the most at the right times within a fight, not dump and autoattack.

I think what i've suggested for bite would work well.  It's a bit in between beta and how it is now.

Bat Swarm - Too expensive on mp, reduce as follows: 500, 700, 800. Range should slightly increase at max rank. Possibly reduce the damage to make up for the range increase. Having this move makes mist a bit weak in terms of aoe. Mist is more of utility than damage.
End of quote

Bat swarm is even better than bite if you ask me.. between the gap crossing and all.  If anything, it could cost more mana.  Along with nerfing range by 5.

  • Inner Grace - Convert the hp / second into mana / second
  •     Pounce - For a support hero with the hp regen and healing she has, this move seems a bit too powerful. The move has a short cooldown, and interrupts casting. Reduce damage to at least 700. The damage per rank should increment by 100, starting at 400.
  •     Horn of the Yeti - Minons cost way too much mana to summon. Cost per rank as follows: 400, 550, 700, 900
  •     Counter Healing - a bit weak, possibly convert enemy healing into damage - a priest healing for 400 would instead deal 100 damage to the target they were healing, a rate of 1/4 of the heal on demigods, the full heal on non-demigods.
  •     Heal - Raise mana cost by at least 150 per rank.
End of quote
  • Inner Grace - Holy hell this would be an insane buff to sedna, who is already the best Demigod next to Oak.  You'd have to spend less on +mps items and can buy more +move and damage instead. 
  • Pounce - Wow so.. you think level 4 should only be twice as good as just 1 point invested?  I'd only put in 1 point and use it as an interupt then.  This is really where my "Total disconnect" I said in the begining comes in.
  • Horn of the yeti - Eh.. they just need to be better.  They are useless now.  Less mana won't make me get the skill.
  • Counter Healing - One of the best skills in the game is a bit weak?
  • Heal - 750 higher mana cost would make it the most costly skill in the game.. I guess with inner grace giving MPS it'd work out, but, no thanks to both.  Heal does need slightly increased cost, and more importantly a 12 second recharge on lvl 1 and 2(lowering to 7 sec like it is now on lvl 3+) but not 750 higher.  Don't know where that outrageous number came from..
  • Sedna would go form slightly too good to unusable with your suggestions, save for inner grace being made insanely good.

    • Spirit Frenzy - Increase proc rate to at least 15% or increase the duration once proced.
    •     Moves should debuff more than they currently do.
    •     Divine Justice - should proc from spirit / minion kills
    •     Penitence - increase the effects of damage taken to 20%, slightly increase mana cost by 50 per rank.
    •     Surge of Faith - Slightly increase the damage to at least 650. Increase the duration of the buff or convert the buff to a passive aura.
    •     Rally - should heal for more than 1000 hp, at least 2000 hp - lvl 15 move should be stronger
    •     Shield - Rebalance rank increases:
             Shield 1 - no change
             Shield 2 - 4 seconds, 500 mp, removes debuffs
             Shield 3 - 5 seconds, 600 mp, removes debuffs, heals for 300
             Shield 4 - 6 seconds, 700 mp, removes debuffs, heals for 600
             Purity - After the shield wears off, decreases damage taken by 30% for 3 seconds.
    •     Personally feel he is the weakest hero - seems like a tank but is not that great of a tank currently.
    •     *He seems like he should have another aura, maybe change surge of faith to also give the movement speed and attack speed bonuses as an aura.
    End of quote
  • Spirit Frenzy - It's hard to say anything with how messed up melee minions are.  They simply fail to attack moving targets.
  • Penitence - Yeah um.. one of the best skillsin the game.  If you played more before giving balance suggestions, you'd notice that it also interupts.  It doesn't say it interupts in the tooltip, but it does.
  • Surge of Faith - Another of the best skills in the game.. and you want it buffed too.
  • Rally - It just needs being redone.  It's flawed.
  • Shield - No
  • Cool... you think the best hero tied with Sedna is the worst  I think it'd be funny if I played against you. :/

    Ground Spikes - Should reduce armor by more, maybe 1250 armor at max rank.
    End of quote

    It reduces it by 1500. 1250 would be less.

    Level Name Mana cost Life drained
    5 Foul Grasp I 800 Mana 332
    10 Foul Grasp II 1100 Mana 500
    15 Foul Grasp III 1400 Mana 664

    Stuns for 2 seconds

    Reduces armor by 800, slows by 30% for 3 seconds

    1 Bite I 300 Mana300
    4 Bite II 420 Mana 500
    7 Bite III 500 Mana 700
    10 Bite IV 595 Mana 900
    End of quote

    Yeah a 30% slow for 3 seconds is the same as a 2 second stun.

     

    Maybe I agree with 1 or 2 things, but I'm not going to bother saying them.  Easier to just say it's all bad since the majority is.

    Reply #35 Top

    Quoting Nemikan, reply 10
    Thats the point, with the insane healing she has now, giving her a 1k dmg attack is a bit overly powerful.

    Heres a listing of each heroes most powerful attacks.

    Unclean Beast: 1500 over time + 150
    Torch Bearer: 1400 with fire / ice
    Rook: 1700
    Lord Erebus: 900
    Regulus: 700 + range= 1050
    Sedna: 1000
    Oak: 800
    Queen of Thorns: 650

    So why does Sedna have more damage than say the Queen of Thorns, Oak, Regulus, Lord Erebus? While each of those people's moves have effects, even so a "healer" class that has strong survivability. On average, that makes the average strongest hit ~1143. Excluding queen of thorns and rook, that makes the average 983.
    End of Nemikan's quote
    UB can continue fighting while that damage is dealt, plus it gets a level 15 ability as well to do another 500 damage at the point of impact.

    TB has range and can combo with other abilities for a lot of damage.

    Rook has stun and Slam does AoE.

    Erebus heals as well as giving a big debuff.

    Reg has huge range.

    Sedna has interrupt.

    Oak interrupts and deals a huge debuff.

    QoT Ground Spikes is AoE and removes armor. Spike Wave slows.

     

    :fox:

    Reply #36 Top

    Lowed the cooldown listed from 12 -> 9 seconds, removed Spike Wave. More changes to come later.

    Reply #37 Top

    More changes to come later.
    End of quote

     

    You're doing gods work son. I'm sure Stardock is reading this and taking notes.

    Reply #38 Top

     

    Foul Grasp Vs Bite

    Foul Grasp is not primarily a life draining ability like bite is.  Foul Grasp incapacitates the demigod and is used to stop teleports/potion or the casting of spells, in that sense it is more of a Mass Charm ability with a minor bonus of healing you.

    It is not meant to be used to heal UB, but more to stop actions.

    ----------------------------------------------

    OP, Very nice formating and it's all well organized but IMO you are missing specific examples as to WHY any specific change should be made. 

    How much data have you gathered?  I.E. how many games have you played?  Have you done any 1v1 testing trying to try out specific examples? 

    All of this information would add more weight to your suggestions/arguments for change, which overall I think are off the mark.

    My 2 cents from my play experiances (which are not vast and need more testing) is that Oak is very very strong as is, if played correctly and can really make Erebus's life hard.

    -Jara

    Reply #39 Top

    second. In 2 seconds you'd do the equivalent of 3.3 hits of damage instead of 2 hits.You lost 0.5 hits of damage. In merely 2 seconds, you have a net gain of 0.8 hits of damage. 80% more.

    In 7 seconds your gain is another 4 hits of damage. You only lost 0.5 of a hit. This is about 60% more damage.

    At level 1 your gain is 1.25 hits. This assumes 1 attack per second. Not as good as maxed, but that's just the nature of the skill, it requires investment.

    So how is it useless? You have to adjust how you play with it, not want it changed to how you play.
    End of quote


    The issue is that more often than not you end up getting stunned. When you are not stunned, your often times casting Venom Spit or Fowl Grasp. This causes the ability to be fairly worthless if stunned for 2 seconds, and your casting abilities for another 2 seconds. This leaves 3 seconds of attacks, assuming you are within melee range. If you manage to fight in melee range for a full 7 seconds, then the move becomes worthwhile, but between getting stuned, slowed, and being unable to reach them in melee, the move is lackluster in comparison to others.

    Reply #40 Top

    If you are going to nerf bite, it needs to be useable on bulidings like many abilities of other players.... although personally I would rather most abilities (punce, spit etc) NOT allowed to be used on buildngs.

    Reply #41 Top

    why does bite need to be usable on buildings even if nerfed?  pentinence isn't.  should it be just because bite gets to work on buildings as a result of a nerf?

    and many abilities working on buildings is a good thing, because there's so many buildings per map.

    Reply #42 Top

    Well people are comparing it directly to abilities like fireball, which works on buildings.  So if you really want to balance everything then you can't just nerf it, you need to make it useable on buildings too.  Anyhow that was my point, bite shouldn't be nerfed as much as some people say just because of other DG's abilites.

     

    Also buildings play a huge part in the game, most games are conquest.  People keep forgetting about the objective in the game and that it is a team game, and just keep crying for nerfs based on 1v1 battles.

    Reply #43 Top

    +100 internets if you can guys which Demigod THIS guy favors.

     

    Because it is SO not obvious /sarcasim

    Reply #44 Top

    Actually I play Sedna and Oak most of the time, i find them tougher than Erebus but he is still pretty good :)

     

    I just hate people yelling nerf when there clearly is no real balance testing going on.  People that make serious suggestions often spend hours analyzing the characters in equal conditions, rather than just blurting out nerfs because they can't figure out how to counter something.