Damn it, double post and can't find delete in edit screen.

Extacide, I think the point, as many are saying, is that in comparison to similar skills (DD (+ Debuff) spells), Bite is is in its own class and with mana potion, max mana/HPs and mana/HPs regen items, it becomes too good. However, his other skills are slightly weaker than the average..but it doesn't make Bite any more ok as is. A slight rework of all his skills is in order.

While Bite is in a somewhat balanced state without items, it becomes slightly too good as the game goes on.

Now, should we reevaluate the items or should we bring a bit more in line the skill that is too efficient in its function? There are a few items that should be reevaluated either way, but the ones making Erebus out of league are basic ones easily attainable. That shows a slight imbalance in the progression of the skill efficiency.

It's not something absolutely game breaking, but it does tend to make Erebrus better than he should be against certain builds.

I personnaly do not think base mana is a serious contender for comparision as you can buy cheap mana potions and scaled helm right away which makes Bite that much more efficient the longer the fight lasts. It's true Sedna will be a pain to Erebus, but Sedna shouldn't be the only solution to him.

A 300 HP (and more later) life stealing + armor and speed debuff on the long run will outclass anything not doing at least 50% more damage a shot for equal mana cost (if no debuff associated like TB Fireball or Snipe). The problem is mainly in the first few levels, as if you can keep up with Erebrus level, you should be fine by lvl 8-10.

Erebus op? I dont really think so... As an Oak I can kill Erebus very fast , only thing I think in Demigod atm that needs nerfing is Rook's Towers, cause if you're facing more than 1 rook early on in game there is NO way you can win, cause the towers will kill EVERYTHING and keep you boxxed in.

that is wrong dude i have fault a erebus with all the items he wanted and i still won

regulus with a cirtain item  and a sertain build  owns  late game

Like I said, it seems to me the problem is early on and not later.

You might play agains a pro player using Erebus, stop grinding noobs

Dude, checking out the player search for you... you have played Erebus 5 times, you won 1 game and lost 4.  If Erebus is as OP as you allege you must really suck!

Edit:  Aimed at the original poster... should have quoted.

Because the recording of stats for players in this game is so amazingly accurate right now!

hmm does it record custom battles too

extacide,

i chose to compare Bite with Penitence specifically because there's so much overlap in what the two skills do. they both inflict a debuff that slows movement and increases damage taken. 

you're right to take into account the different base stats of Oak vs. Erebus when considering this. Oak has somewhat higher base mana and regen than Erebus but much lower gains per level. 

i think what you'll discover, after some brief calculations, is that Erebus has matched Oak's mana and regen as soon as they are both level 3 and he exceeds Oak's mana and regen for every level thereafter (due to his superiod gains per level compared to Oak). 

so really the situation is that Erebus, the DG with the better mana supply, is also provided with the more mana efficient ability.

here, check it out for youself

Erebus - http://demigod.wikia.com/wiki/Lord_Erebus - 

Oak - http://demigod.wikia.com/wiki/Oak - 

doesn't bite only lower armor while pentience lowers armor and speed

Well, so can the other team... Bite doesn't do an amazing amount of damage at all. It's just a debuff/self heal. Sedna can outlast an erebus. QoT can out-last an erebus. Oak will outlast Erebus. Pretty much ANY general will counter him, because they have much more support to mitigate his damage. He is literally an assassin/general hybrid. He is most effectively played as a general to support, or as a direct counter to ranged demigods. This is what I have observed thus far. I play exclusively premades as well, and I've yet to be contradicted. My stance can possibly change, but so can yours. Thats why I again, argue its too early to judge him.

He is also THE squishiest melee demigod there is. He has to rely on either A) his bite, or his minions. No one has yet to present a case where statwise/skillwise, he is SUPERIOR vs. other melee demigods. The only real melee demigod he can out-play (keyword, OUTPLAY) is a rook, because mistform/batform can dodge a slam and force a Rook back with no real way to nuke an erebus. One hit from slam though, and erebus is at HALF health in any equal situation. ANY stun in a team game, and there will be way too much damage for him to simply 'bite' it back. The game doesn't always play out 1v1, and people forget this.

Why is this a problem? From what I have seen and played so far, he can very easily be built to counter CERTAIN demigods. Every demigod can be built to out-play others. Bite still doesn't make him superior vs. other melee demigods, like UB, Oak or Sedna.

It's called counter-play man. This is where skill hasn't been factored into the whole, 'overpowered' equation.

As for the stupid mana argument that everyone else has been making, I'll grind out real numbers when I feel like it. They won't mean anything though, because you would have to put ALL of a demigod's skills into play, rate the skill efficiency which submerges into the realm of opinion, then put every demigod against eachother, which ultimately does no justice to a balance for a TEAM game. This in itself proves 'mana efficiency' a useless argument.

balance is always a matter of "opinion". merely stating that fact doesn't transform the debate from valid to invalid. 

the mana argument is not a stupid one. it is a metric that many of us, in our "opinions", believe is a useful, accurate, and easily comprehensible numerical standard that can be used to assess the abstract notion of "balance" with. its attractive to me (and others too i suppose) because it is a good quantitative tool. qualitative assessments are valuable as well and i understand many of your points Extacide, but you should also try to understand the quantitative argument we are making. 

viewed quantitatively: Erebus' Bite ability is in a category by itself in terms of [delta Health] per mana efficiency. 

of course there's more to it than that. but we're now in the situation where we need to stop and think about whether other factors justify its outsize performance in mana efficiency. i think this is the correct analysis to do in any situation where one ability has a clear quantitative advantage over other similar abilities. 

What I meant with "Better than it should be against certain builds" was about the counter builds of some Demigods being less effective than they should.

I'm perfectly happy with the fact some builds are getting raped by others. But the counters should really be counters and not inefficient.

ok ill settle this once and for all

these numbers  for start off the game  lvl 1

erebus starts with 780 mana bite uses 300 mana at first lvl  so 2 shots

mass charm 450 mana 1 shot

sedna 884 mana 

pounce is 400 so  2 shots

heal is 375 so 2 shots

oak 832 mana

raise dead 200 so   4shots  but it does no dmg

pentience  450  so 1 shot

shield 400 2 shots

reg 884 mana

450 mana for snipe  so almost 2 shots

440 mana for mines 2  times

rook 880 mana

hammer 360 mana  2 shots

towers 400 mana so 2 times

the suck up  265 mana  so 3 shots

tb 1100 mana

 rof 500 mana 2 shots

deep 350 mana 3 shots

fb 300 mana so almost 4 shots

circle of fire  450 mana so 2 shots

ub 1092 mana

spit 500 so 2 shots

bestial wrath 550 mana  1 shot almost 2

qot 932 mana

450 for shamble  so 2 shots

400 for bramble so 2 shots

ground spikes  500 mana 1 shot

uproot 425 mana  2 shots againist buildings

ok  now lets look and see which is op in the way off mana  hmm it is  torch with fireball  he can get almost 4 shots with it for 300 mana and does 300 dmg

so that seem to make it aparent that  compared to erebus  he is rrather balance in the mana  depart ment so stop bitching about it

Base mana means nothing with mana potions and scaled helm. Bite efficiency is not on base mana, it's on base mana + the rest. Everytime you use it, it's 300 dam on the other demigod and 300 HPs for you for similar cooldowns and mana costs, that's like a 600 HPs Fireball if you consider damage healed as damage done in a 1v1 fight.

A TB going against a Erebus, both with 2 mana potions, Erebus will wipe the floor with the TB and actually all DGs except Sedna. Time spent fleeing from Erebus is also giving the advantage to the opponent. Using 2 DGs to counter him also means a location without any interference for the opponent team.

On paper in a DG vs DG comparison it is balanced. In reality with basic items involved, it is not.

ur wrong go to the  bite unbalance thread i have posted there the reason this is wrong and the counters to this

With argument like you're wrong i'm totally convinced. (If you're not gonna put the effort into least posting your arguement in this thread. Then why should we put forth the effort of taking you seriously?)

hmm because i dont feel like having to copy and paste the hole load of text i put in the other thread to here

and i dont mind if u dont take me seriously

then at least copy paste the link to the thread you're talking about. honestly, at least try. we're not mind readers. 

http://forums.demigodthegame.com/350105/page/2

there

edit my bad i had the wrong link

For my part in it, I don't think Erebus is really overpowered.  I guess I do think that Mist form would probably be best removed and replaced with a different skill, and perhaps I think stuns in general are too good.  But I definitely think that Erebus is on par with Oak, Sedna, Regulus, and Torchbearer.

I think a big part of the problems is that the people who are complaining are largely playing as Unclean Beast.  And I think that Unclean Beast is far too weak against generals.

Though anyone who thinks that Fireball is worse than Bite has clearly either never played Torchbearer or never played Erebus.  The range on fireball and the lower cooldown make it far, far more useful than Bite, regardless of health steal.

I don't really think it can be denied that Bite is the most mana efficient and powerful ability in the game, but that doesn't really mean it is overpowered.  One ability certainly has to take that place, but the problem isn't bite alone.

Bite combines with several things to make Erebus exceptionally good at assassinating other Demigods.  Personally I think this is retarded because he is a general....but I think all of the generals are broken (not overpowered..just not functioning correctly) in this respect.  They play more like assassins with minions than a different class entirely.

But the reason Erebus is different is because he can so easily win most 1v1 DG fights.  Bite, does damage to his opponant and heals him.  It also reduces their armor massively, though at the beginning of the game it is only enough to put another Erebus, Rook (wtf why does he have the third crappiest base armor?), or Torch Bearer into negative armor.  The slow effect is also annoying, as it prevents the enemy Demigod from running away from the new 600-point hp difference between him and his opponant.  But what really makes bite terrible is combining it with a higher base movement speed than any other DG except Unclean Beast, the ability to warp in and out of fights, and the ability to instantly turn into mist to save yourself from the brink of death.

Erebus seems to have been deliberately designed for killing enemy Demigods.  Nothing else can even compare to his DG killing potential until the late late game.  Even UB pales in comparison. 

If you nerf bite heavily it will certainly be a problem for Erebus, as his only place in the game seems to be killing Demigods, and Bite plays a crucial role in that.  Honestly I think he just need to be entirely reworked so he functions differently.

bit isn't the most powerful or the most useful just that it is 3 in one is what people like but the major point is that it can be beaten

Right, but, for example, Oak's Penitence has a better debuff, about equal damage, and it hits at a range.  I think it's pretty even to Bite overall.  Torchbearer's fireball has a fast cooldown, a very long range, and extra damage.

I think that Bite really shines in a 1 v 1 situation, where Erebus needs to both do damage and stay alive.  But in a multi-demigod situation, I don't think it's nearly as good as Oak or TB's DD abilities.