Warcraft 3 says Hi and did this just fine.

you can repeat yourself over and over, a lot of us don't agree with you. i'm sorry we don't have your superior knowledge. if you keep posting the same thing over and over eventually it might sink in.

One other thing I think we are just not talking about the same thing. Let me make one last attempt to show in some ways we are on the same page actually....

- The Pantheon is a persistent tournament ladder. It is lightside vs. darkside. Its not a clan vs. clan setup. It ranks by individual performance on random made teams. Keeps track of the ongoing light vs. dark results etc.

- Later as they add the ability for actual Tournaments those should be premade team vs. premade teams and ranked with a leaderboard for that purpose.

- Then they have just the regular ladder rankings as they do that takes into account the skirmishes and custom games or whatever.

The only point I and a few others were making is in regards to the Pantheon is keep it so people get matches of the same type. When they do the competitive tournaments thats fine to do premades and all that.

Yes, it's obvious that you don't understand the view point of those who would play in the random team ladders, but they exist and are quite common.

So if there's demand for it, and you're still getting an arranged team pantheon. The question is, why do you so badly want to play against random teams with an arranged team?

Single person. So a single person's ranking is dependent on 2 random other people? What kind of skill is this going to reflect in the ladder? Luck?

Actually Poly...to even further the point....Stardock is already setup for this in a way....look at how they have rankings pages setup... 

http://pantheon.demigodthegame.com/

There is a Pantheon rankings....this would be matched same type teams in Pantheon...random vs. random...team vs. team etc. But it ranks people individually as it already does. This is only records for the current Pantheon.

Then there is top players rankings which just puts everythign together , custom games, skirmish whatever. 

Then there is a Clan rankings....which they dont have up yet. This would be the area though for those other tournaments for the premade clan groups and competitive people etc etc. 

a team should be able to be formed for every game type.  for skirmishes and pantheon, a team should be matched against another team, not a PUG.

Precisely.  This is how it is done in WC3, and that is the ideal.  Have a separate matchmaking system for premades.  It's unfair for pub teams to go against premades, it always causes problems regardless of what game you're playing.

can't wait for team pantheon 

I suppose there's no point in arguing this anymore. I guess it would be better just to wait for the automatch and beat everyone

lol so those last 2 posts i made trying to clarify and extend the bridge there you just like "ehh whatever I like cola". lol

The main point was if you look at the Pantheon setup...its for rankings on Light vs. Dark....ranking individual players. Its a persistent setup.

The premade vs. premade thing just will be under the "Clans" section and be a seperate thing. At least thats what many hope for.

Anyway....have fun.  

random teaming is important for new players and more casual play.  i used to AT and RT in wc3, but i wouldn't have RT'd if i thought i'd be fighting arranged teams with my PUG.  also, i don't think i'd get much out of beating a random team with my arranged team.

for example, after playing L4D since it's release, i'm dying for its looking 4 four system to be out in at least 2 months.  i have a group that plays together frequently, and i don't think pub stomping is particularly fun until it degenerates into us TK'ing each other.

You don't want to alienate your casual crowd.  Not everyone is:

1. Going to have there friends online at the same time they are.
2. Going to have the time to form a team.
3. Going to want to make friends and form a team up.

Sometimes after getting home from work, I'm going to just want to jump into a skirmish game with strangers and fight it out.  When I do this, I'm not going to want to fight against a pre-made team that is rocking voice, playing super coordinated and overall is very very good, Vs my team which can't voice chat with each other and may have some newer players.

Don't get me wrong, I like this game enough and so far I'm into it enough that I do plan on playing pre-arranged teams with my brothers and friends.  We will be on vent we will be very compitive, but forcing everyone to that mold is a very bad idea (and you'll lose sales and members of the community).

I see no problem with a noob ladder or non-constructed team ladder.  Sounds like you'll never play it, fine but don't try to force everyone else into your cookie cutter world (we won't all fit). 

-Jara

I can keep arguing if you'd like. Its a hard concept to understand that internet people give up.

Oh no! A team game lets people choose their teams. Oh the imba!

lol, I didnt look at it as arguing...its just discussion....but cool.    

Are you replying to anyone in particular? Because most of us here are just fine with premade teams, as long as the system doesn't reward team stacking by matching premades against a bunch of randoms.

I agree.  Pantheon should always be RANDOM.  Just look at how WiC's (World in Conflict's) ladder-system was exploited....sigh.

Please SD, don't change the Pantheon.  Leave it on it's own and random for it to actually mean something.

Custom games can be just that "custom" (choose to play there or not).  The Pantheon should remain a random match-up.

It can still remain a random match-up between teams. If people want to play Pantheon with premade teams, they can do so without affecting people who join up by themselves.

Randoms get matched with randoms.

Teams get matches with teams.

Everyone wins, and neither affects the other. The integrity of the ladder is maintained because a team vs team match isn't skewed the way a team vs randoms match would be, so the win/favor points are properly earned.

Joining Pantheon as a team should be allowed, at least for 2v2.  3,4,5 could get out of hand.

if the player base is good, ie the game does well, automatch will have enough teams

If you don't think your playing teams in pantheon games already, think again. Me and my friend just click Fight at the same time and 90% of the time end up in the same game on the same team. I'm sure we're not the only ones doing this.

It's actually faster to get games going this way then sitting in a custom room waiting as well.

Also, which video does Brad mention the team automatch?

Yeah good point and Im sure people are doing that...but its not a for sure thing you will always be on the same team. So it still prevents say 4 people all getting on same team to play four randoms yada yada yada.

Ideally there should be a clan Panth and a Solo panth. Tourneys can use clan panth and clans can use solo panth to judge skill and recruit from. People with skill will stick out even when paired with newbs and thier records would reflect that.

new players can come in to the game, learn the ropes on solo panth and when they get a decent record they can start looking for a clan.