My Tier List

Just posted this on GameFaqs.  Feel free to argue it but please have valid reasons.  I have played all heroes both online and offline, and I made this based on my findings.

High: Erebus, Unclean Beast
Mid High: Regulus, Oak
Mid: Rook, Torchbearer
Mid Low: Queen of Thorns
Low: Sedna

Erebus can fill the assassin AND general role extremely better, even some of the pure assassin/pure general DGs.
UB is amazingly powerful start to finish. He isn't item dependant, but if you put some items in his hands he's amazing.
Reg can be great late game but that's completely dependant on his early game.
Oak is strong all game w/o items etc etc.
Mid and Mid Low are self explanatory, just meh heroes.
Sedna is terrible. She can't get the kills to get gold, so she can't even properly support the team w/ Citadel upgrades. She is just overall a terrible hero.

72,166 views 32 replies
Reply #1 Top

Why is it that the pure damage DGs are always thought to be the best? I play QoT all the time online and the enemy can almost never win as long as there is another human on my team. Her shield is easily a game changer.

Reply #2 Top

Wow.  You really, really need to play more if you feel that Sedna is that terrible.  She is one of the most powerful Demigods. 

Besides Sedna your list is overall pretty terrible, you are just new to the game and have spent too much time playing AI.  We've seen a lot of snap judgements and poor advice coming from new players ever since release.  Take the time to play against other players more, particually some of the better skilled players.  Find some of the beta players, learn from playing them.

Reply #3 Top

naw the general jist of the list isnt half bad...

Reply #4 Top

Its quite funny how Sedna + QoT can be one of the most deadly in 2v2 :)

Reply #5 Top



Sedna is terrible. She can't get the kills to get gold, so she can't even properly support the team w/ Citadel upgrades. She is just overall a terrible hero.


I was in an online skirmish, paired with an AI sedena and she feed 13 deaths to the other side. Alot compared to the opposing AI and other characters. She died more than 3 times the other demigods. She wouldn't retreat and always went out on her own.

Reply #6 Top

Quoting Ralsar, reply 2
Wow.  You really, really need to play more if you feel that Sedna is that terrible.  She is one of the most powerful Demigods. 

Besides Sedna your list is overall pretty terrible, you are just new to the game and have spent too much time playing AI.  We've seen a lot of snap judgements and poor advice coming from new players ever since release.  Take the time to play against other players more, particually some of the better skilled players.  Find some of the beta players, learn from playing them.

I got the game the day it came out you silly boy.  I've also been playing DotA for 2+ years.  She has potential but compared to the other heroes Sedna is nothing.

Quoting Paranon, reply 1
Why is it that the pure damage DGs are always thought to be the best? I play QoT all the time online and the enemy can almost never win as long as there is another human on my team. Her shield is easily a game changer.

I'm confused why you say pure damage when I put Erebus at the top, and half of his skill tree is based on pushing...  He's like 60% damage, nothing near "pure."  I explained this in my initial post...

Reply #7 Top

Quoting kue23, reply 6
I got the game the day it came out you silly boy.  I've also been playing DotA for 2+ years.  She has potential but compared to the other heroes Sedna is nothing.

Yeah well we've been playing against and as Sedna for months before release.  You are a new player.  Get out of the DotA mindset, this game is different.  Sedna is one of the best Demigods.  She elevates any team.  Getting lots of kills isn't the only way to determine strength.  Though any good Sedna player gets plenty of kills.  Her ability to interrupt with Pounce and Silence, her heals and her 1k burst damage coupled with her high speed and low cooldowns make her a force on the battlefield.  You are just confusing yourself with the way you mis-play her and the way the AI uses her. 

Reply #8 Top

It is possible to make a tier list for a team game based on

TEAM COMBINATION

NOT

1v1

I suggest you to make a team combination tier list instead of 1v1 tier list (and sedna dont sux 1v1).

So I would like to something like: (example pulled out of donkey behind)

High: Rook + Regulus

Mid: UC + QoT

Etc.

 

Currently, 1v1 there are obvious advantages and weakness of each demigod that make it into a rock paper scissor game.

Reply #9 Top

Quoting Ralsar, reply 7



Quoting kue23,
reply 6
I got the game the day it came out you silly boy.  I've also been playing DotA for 2+ years.  She has potential but compared to the other heroes Sedna is nothing.


Yeah well we've been playing against and as Sedna for months before release.  You are a new player.  Get out of the DotA mindset, this game is different.  Sedna is one of the best Demigods.  She elevates any team.  Getting lots of kills isn't the only way to determine strength.  Though any good Sedna player gets plenty of kills.  Her ability to interrupt with Pounce and Silence, her heals and her 1k burst damage coupled with her high speed and low cooldowns make her a force on the battlefield.  You are just confusing yourself with the way you mis-play her and the way the AI uses her. 

Lol you make the most patheticly blind assumptions.  Who is "we" specifically?  How do you know I play vs AI? None of your arguements have been supported with any evidence from the game.  All you say is you've been playign forever and I haven't.  Seriously unless you plan on saying something with actual relevence.

Reply #10 Top

Ralsar has a point though, sedna isn't as bad as she seems. She takes a different mindset to play. Yes she has money troubles but the majority of money still should be coming from demi-god assist kills. Disagree with the list, erebus is highest for me followed by UB / reg on the same tier then it's everyone else cept QoT who is at the bottom as she really is way too dependant on others to do anything, and even then some of her spells like uproot are beaten by other skills as better tower destroyers. Her shield is the weakest of the 3 support abilties. (oak's shield, brambles, heal)  That and there's tactidal use for her forms. You only use open form to cast spells then back to closed form asap as there's no reason to stay in open form. (Maybe add extra range and a small debuff when in open form would change that.)

QoT is several times weaker then sedna in my experience.

Reply #11 Top

I made a post in the strat forum that I think is relevant to this thread. Here is the link.

But to cover it briefly - Of course Sedna is going be weak if she is played weak. A lot of people are stuck in the perception that she is supposed to be played as a healer so forsake her dps abilities then point to the lack of damage as evidence that she sucks.

Its quite true that if you don't do damage in Demigod your DG is going to suck because XP and Gold is derived from your ability to melt faces. But Sedna is a hybrid of dps and healing - if you only play one half of her she is going to suck, particularily if the half you are playing isnt the part that generates levels and items.

Conversely if you forsake her healing abilities and try to make an Assassin out of her she simply isnt going to measure up against purebreed Assassins. Play her as a hybrid and discover the power of being able to heal and do dps.

Reply #13 Top

Just posted this on GameFaqs.  Feel free to argue it but please have valid reasons.  I have played all heroes both online and offline, and I made this based on my findings.


High: Erebus, Unclean Beast
Mid High: Regulus, Oak
Mid: Rook, Torchbearer
Mid Low: Queen of Thorns
Low: Sedna

Erebus can fill the assassin AND general role extremely better, even some of the pure assassin/pure general DGs.
UB is amazingly powerful start to finish. He isn't item dependant, but if you put some items in his hands he's amazing.
Reg can be great late game but that's completely dependant on his early game.
Oak is strong all game w/o items etc etc.
Mid and Mid Low are self explanatory, just meh heroes.
Sedna is terrible. She can't get the kills to get gold, so she can't even properly support the team w/ Citadel upgrades. She is just overall a terrible hero.

I think the key here is teamwork - 1v1 there may well be imbalances, but overall in team games the DG's are pretty well balanced, maybe only a few tweaks here and there required. How you rate them may be just down to your own play style.

UB can deal a lot of damage, but has next to no hitpoints - against a rook with a couple of towers and a torchbearer working together, he's going to struggle to get close enough to deal that damage.

Sedna is far from terrible - she's near impossible to kill, can support dps demigods with pounce and silence, and gives a massive advantage to creeps and her own minions for pushing.

 

Reply #14 Top

Quoting kue23, reply 9
Lol you make the most patheticly blind assumptions.  Who is "we" specifically?  How do you know I play vs AI? None of your arguements have been supported with any evidence from the game.  All you say is you've been playign forever and I haven't.  Seriously unless you plan on saying something with actual relevence.

I meant to type "I've".  And I spelled out why Sedna is powerful already.  Your choosing to ignore counters to your "Sedna sucks" nonsense in my post and in others then claiming I don't have anything of actual relevance to say is rather foolish. 

As for why I thought you had played against the AI, I thought you meant you were playing AI when you said you were playing offline.  Your understanding of Sedna is so uninformed that I just assumed it was your experience with that AI that had led you to your judgment that Sedna is horrible.

The point still stands, and has been supported by others in this thread, that you are under estimating Sedna.  She is extremely powerful.

Reply #15 Top

Tiers are in general a bad idea. If any game has characters that are easily picked out as better, it's typically a terrible game. Now is a good example, you have plenty of people that disagree with you and several that pointed out a 1 vs 1 game is very different from a 4 vs 4.

I personally think this game is extremelly well balanced overall save 1 vs 1, which probably was added for the hell of it. As a game that is every bit team based (even single player is team based..), 1 vs 1 do not make much sense.. Sedna and QoT are both powerful assets and supported by a good team that works together make great addition. Also, my most fearful match in 2 vs 2 is actually Sedna + QoT (I've had the pleasure of facing them.)

 Frankly , it's difficult to kill them. You aren't in incredible danger..(you can escape most situations),but they will eventually push your citadel down while you stay with them level-wise from lack of kills. I've played with a Sedna once in a 2 vs 2 and eventually the other team quit, she wasn't even that good. It's beatable, of course, but it's a powerful combo. Would it work with 2 sedna and 2 QoT in a 4 vs 4 against a sedna, a QoT, a UB, and a rook? Probably not.., but that's the point.

Reply #16 Top

Quoting AngryZealot, reply 12
Erebus needs a buff IMO.

 

LOL, the  W+M1 easy Mode charachter. Yeah the last thing he needs is a buff.

 

EZ MODE

Reply #17 Top

LOL Sedna in last because - she can't get the kills?

Pounce + Movement Speed kills all the runners that get away from ganks that you WILL be doing with your team if your even moderatly competent as a Sedna.

But whatever, the more people that thinks she is terrible the easier it is for me, so yeah she is horrible!

Reply #18 Top

Just to clear it up I never said she's in last because she can't get kills.  Transitively, yes that is slightly the reason she is at the bottom.  She needs money to be good (mana dependant, support hero [she needs to upgrade citadel], etc).  The main way to make money is through hero kills, which she is at the bottom of the list.  My tier list is not at all based only on the ability to get kills, as you see Oak in the second tier.  Think more analytically when reading my tier list, because I obviously didn't explain the ground I based it on clearly enough for you all.

Reply #19 Top

Why are you so resistant?  Do you really think we just don't "get" your list?  Massage it all you want, you are wrong about Sedna.  Read the replys of your own thread and learn from others.

Any cash shortfall you are perceiving is mitagated by Sedna's ability to facilitate the success of her teammates which generates plenty of gold for her teammates and plenty of assist gold for her.  And you'll find that most Sedna players get more then their fair share of kills with Pounce finishing.  Remember this is a team game.  Whatever problems you have had with Sedna are due to player skill, not due to any shortcoming of the character.

Well hopefully now you are beginning to understand why she is one of the top Demigods and will avoid making such rush judgements.  It takes awhile to learn the ins and outs of Demigod and each DG takes some time to master.

Reply #20 Top

Torchbearer is meh? Tell that to the Erebus I played the other day who I repeatedly killed. 

Same goes for Rook being "meh". Tell it to the people who find I've taken one of their portals (and destroyed 4+ towers in the process) at level 8. After that they probably thought Rook is OP. 

Sedna terrible? Pair her up with a high DPS char (Torchbearer, Regulus, UB) and all of a sudden she's terribly dangerous, since you'll have immense trouble surviving long enough to kill them. 

 

Reply #21 Top

I think I have to agree with the op at least partly about Sedna. I am by no means an experienced player - but having concentrated on playing her over the last couple of days, simply because I liked the character, I still get the most deaths, the least kills and the least experience/gold of any team (except for other Sednas perhaps which I see very rarely).

I think u can safely say that Sedna is not weaker by much than the other Demigods when she's gotten to a decent level, but certainly much harder to play effectively to even get there. Perhaps she does shine more in an experienced team where she can fill a certain niche.

  • In the beginning you can only rely on brute force to even get to higher tier skills. Since every other Demigod seems to think of Sedna as an easy kill, I ususally have a very slow start staying back out of sight and trying to pick off things even easier like unsupported grunts an the odd flag capture. I would like a bit more movement speed with Sedna from the beginning to do at least that effectively.
  • Nowadays I don't bother even getting the single heals because I run out of mana too fast casting them and they are too slow in casting to effectively save someone "from the brink of death". I still think there is a valid strategy in teaming up with Rook for example. But you would need a teammate who plays along and possibly voice com to pull it off. It doesn't work with randoms.
  • Pounce and Silence are possibly great once u get there. I find it very difficult to use them though in a fight. You have to learn the animations of the skills of the other demigods by hard, you have to get the timing right (the other demigods have fast skills too) and you have to do that on top of constantly moving out of harms way yourself and issuing commands to your rather dumb minions, who tend to fall asleep every three seconds. Especially those Yetis annoy me. The minions could use quite a bigger aggro range. This is all quite micro intensive.

That is most of my gripes with Sedna right now. In a couple of long games I managed to get her to 20 or near there and the combination of aoe-healing buff, tier IV minions, Yetis and some of the other minion buffs was very powerful. At the moment that is what I go for mostly.

I think I will try Oak next and see if he better fits my playstyle. Shame for Sedna though, I really liked that character. If that doesn't work out, I will revert to Rook and admit that I am too old to play micro intensive games :)

Reply #22 Top

Mid Low: Queen of Thorns
Low: Sedna

I'll play this combo in the ESL 2vs2 Tournament today (we decided on that before you made this topic, so its not specifically targetted to prove you wrong, yet a nice side effect)

Reply #23 Top

Yes, actually this list is kinda useless and without point at the moment.

The game is overall very well balanced. Only way to do such a list would be to create some statistics on a very large data set (from pantheon for example), but going straight at it like that with a couple of personal views (and probably without spectating expert-level games) is totally unrelevant.

Reply #24 Top

Quoting jenkue74, reply 21
In the beginning you can only rely on brute force to even get to higher tier skills. Since every other Demigod seems to think of Sedna as an easy kill, I ususally have a very slow start staying back out of sight and trying to pick off things even easier like unsupported grunts an the odd flag capture. I would like a bit more movement speed with Sedna from the beginning to do at least that effectively.

I tend to get the Swift Anklet as a favor item on bigger maps.  Later on I'll get the Boots of Speed (always get Monk Idol with my first 1k gold).  Throw in Inner Grace and I zoom around the map.  You are right that early Sedna is best at hit and run, but always remember to stick with your teammates.  A solo Sedna can be effective though no where near as effective as she is in a group.  Remember that Pounce is an interupt so even if you aren't throwing out heals from the beginning you are still helping immensly with your interupt.  And your Monk minions will keep you healed enough to keep you on the battlefield.  Just don't get caught in a 2v1 or higher conflict.  Sedna can't handle being out numbered in the early game.

Nowadays I don't bother even getting the single heals because I run out of mana too fast casting them and they are too slow in casting to effectively save someone "from the brink of death". I still think there is a valid strategy in teaming up with Rook for example. But you would need a teammate who plays along and possibly voice com to pull it off. It doesn't work with randoms.

Well now that is just crazy talk 8(|    Heals are vital for yourself and your teammates.  Plenor's Battlecrown and Velmish Hat(?) gives you plenty of mana and they are relatively cheap.  I run Pounce, Silence and then enter the "healing stage" while I melee where I am ready to heal myself or teammates as needed.  Once the enemy DG starts to flee or hits low enough health I finish with another Pounce.


Pounce and Silence are possibly great once u get there. I find it very difficult to use them though in a fight. You have to learn the animations of the skills of the other demigods by hard, you have to get the timing right (the other demigods have fast skills too) and you have to do that on top of constantly moving out of harms way yourself and issuing commands to your rather dumb minions, who tend to fall asleep every three seconds. Especially those Yetis annoy me. The minions could use quite a bigger aggro range. This is all quite micro intensive.

I agree it takes some timing practice to be effective with Silence.  Even after playing Sedna for so long I still end up casting Silence and interrupting nothing because the enemy was just doing melee.  Still when it works it is worth it.

That is most of my gripes with Sedna right now. In a couple of long games I managed to get her to 20 or near there and the combination of aoe-healing buff, tier IV minions, Yetis and some of the other minion buffs was very powerful. At the moment that is what I go for mostly.

Minion builds are rough early and even mid game, but once you have your army powered up you can really tear it up late game.  That being said, I never touch the Yeti line.  I tried build after build after build in beta trying to convince myself that a minion build would work and just never could.  You lose so much of Sedna's utility by spending skill points on Yeti and Morale.

I think I will try Oak next and see if he better fits my playstyle. Shame for Sedna though, I really liked that character. If that doesn't work out, I will revert to Rook and admit that I am too old to play micro intensive games

If you do, keep an eye out for Ralsar.  Oak and Rook are my favorite minions, I'll keep you healed :grin:

Reply #25 Top

OP's tiers are laughable. Sedna bottom tier? Hilarious. Pounce is superb - it and silence instantly make any focus fire a complete pain train, heal is game changing, healing wind massively boosts sustainability and has very powerful priest effects and inner grace gives yet more sustainability and keeps her quick enough for any situation.

All those abilities are extroadinary and she isn't even item dependant. Gold-deprived? Huh? Sedna simply does not need much to function despite pounce finishing kills all the time. All she needs is to stack the cheap armor items, get some mana regen and a few mana potions and she's a machine all the way to endgame, pumping out pounces, healing, silences and those fantastic priest auras. From level one her sustainability is top notch and the first rank of pounce starts at 400.

Sedna is a beast in the right hands. And, no, I do not main her. I play on a team with her.