Frogboy Frogboy

Tentative Elemental Development Schedule

Tentative Elemental Development Schedule

For those of you who have been through the development of a Stardock developed or published game, much of this will be familiar.  For those of you aren’t, welcome!

Early next year we plan to release a new turn-based PC strategy game called Elemental.  Our games typically have 3 betas and then a private “gamma” and then release.  We use the beta to mean truly unfinished, not feature complete but playable (we also use the term “alpha” for truly unfinished but not playable before we move into beta).

Beta 1 is typically the engine test. Beta 2 is the connectivity/multiplayer test. And beta 3 is the balance/fun test. Gamma is where it’s done but we’re doing final bug testing on it.

For Elemental, we want to add a 4th beta that’s earlier than we normally start betas. The reason for this is because we plan to do some pretty radical stuff with Elemental from a game mechanics point of view. Some of these ideas may look good on paper but not be remotely practical.  So for Elemental, we’re going to add a beta 0.

Here is the tentative schedule:

Beta 0: June 2009.  This won’t be fun and will only play on the cloth map.

Empire_Cloth_City_Wide

The idea being, if the game is fun, it should still be fun without fancy graphics. Finishing Spring and over the Summer, we’ll be trying out all kinds of game mechanics, listening to people in the beta (anyone who pre-orders has the option to participate in the beta) to see what ideas they might have, etc.  It’s a lot cheaper to implement an idea or concept when we only have to represent it with icons on a cloth map. :)

Beta 1: August 2009. This is the engine test where we insert the actual graphics engine. The cloth map will still be there for zooming out but now you’ll be able to really play in the world and we’ll start to build onto this.  The game still won’t be fun at this stage but you’ll be able to give feedback on the look, UI, and other game engine stuff.


Beta 2: October 2009. This is the multiplayer test. It still won’t likely be very fun but you’ll be able to suffer with friends on-line. Elemental’s multiplayer model is client-server (which is the opposite of Demigod which is peer-to-peer). In Elemental’s case, Impulse will host the actual games which means that (in theory) there should be no such thing as “connection issues”. If you can connect to a web page, you should be able to play people on-line in Elemental. 

It will be at this stage when we decide whether Elemental will make its ship date.  We have February 2010 or August 2010 set aside for Elemental based on player feedback (we prefer February but we don’t want to feel rushed).  Right now, we’re running slightly ahead of schedule.

One nice thing about Beta 2 is that the multiplayer features we’re adding into Elemental will also be made available in updates to Demigod for multiplayer users and anything else that uses Impulse Reactor (our development platform).

 

Beta 3: December 2009. This is when the game better start getting to be fun. This is where we balance things, etc.

 

Gamma: January 2010. This is often called a “release candidate” by other developers but these are private builds where we think everything works but expect there to be some last minute bugs that need to be fixed.

 

Release: Mid-February 2010.

 

If you have any questions, let us know. We’re always around. :)

335,935 views 81 replies
Reply #51 Top

It should be beta 0, because as all good programmers know, you start counting at zero


Depends on what you're counting an how!

Reply #52 Top

Quoting ckessel, reply 25

It should be beta 0, because as all good programmers know, you start counting at zero

Except, you know, the "small" community of Visual Basic programmers :p

Reply #53 Top

Quoting Vicente, reply 2
Quoting ckessel, reply 25

Except, you know, the "small" community of Visual Basic programmers

 

Even VB.net uses zero indexed arrays and such now. :)

Reply #54 Top

Quoting Tridus, reply 3

Even VB.net uses zero indexed arrays and such now.

Ok, good point, the correct sentence was "VB6" programmers :p

Reply #55 Top

Quoting Tridus, reply 3

Quoting Vicente, reply 2Quoting ckessel, reply 25

Except, you know, the "small" community of Visual Basic programmers


 

Even VB.net uses zero indexed arrays and such now.

 

And I did say "good" programmers ;P  

Reply #56 Top

Quoting ckessel, reply 25

It should be beta 0, because as all good programmers know, you start counting at zero

heh, I don't think having a counting system start with '0' is something that marks a 'good' programmer.  maybe a seasoned one, but the whole 'start with 0' is just syntax.  There is not an advantage to starting with 0 over a real number. Its just tradition because in theory it better translates into machine code and most programming languages use it.

my point was for more common people start with a real number, namely the number 1.   I'm really not worried about the programmers, since they will be the most likely to pull out their debuggers to find code errors.   I'm worried about beta 2 being full of people complaining about silly things like spell balance or extra features when players still can't even pick what color they want to play. (i.e. something that is considered to be a standard feature in everything where players are represented by colors except demigod apparentl)

Except, you know, the "small" community of Visual Basic programmer

I count them as a lot smaller than C, C++, C#, and Java programmers.  I would almost venture to say that in this day and age, they really are a minority.   I honestly have not encountered many basic programmers of late.  I knew several visual basic communities that created software for TI calculators and such back in the 90s, but they've pretty much died down.   I have since not seen anything else or any other particularly notable programs to be done in any form of basic in the last 5 years.  I think even calculators are starting to turn to things like java.

Basic does now have actianscript, which is very popular in flash games, on its side.   They use '1' rather than '0' to start all counting, lists, arrays, or whatever.   I know many modern and active action script communities *looks at the web-based casual games industry, namely the half not running on java*

Reply #57 Top

A lot of .net work gets done in VB, and if all you're getting is a compiled installer you'd never really notice the difference. It's got a worse reputation then the current version deserves, mostly due to VB6 and its ilk.

 

Counting at 0 these days is just a defacto standard, there's no technical reason why modern compilers couldn't adapt if we started at 1 instead. I wish we would, 0 based indexes always cause confusion and off by one bugs from new programmers.

Reply #58 Top

Quoting landisaurus, reply 6

I count them as a lot smaller than C, C++, C#, and Java programmers.  I would almost venture to say that in this day and age, they really are a minority.   I honestly have not encountered many basic programmers of late.  I knew several visual basic communities that created software for TI calculators and such back in the 90s, but they've pretty much died down.   I have since not seen anything else or any other particularly notable programs to be done in any form of basic in the last 5 years.  I think even calculators are starting to turn to things like java.

It's not because VB6 is only used for things in the 90s that MS retracted from its decision to not support VB6 on Vista ;) It's because there are thousands of applications out there used in companies that are VB6 and they needed to support them if they wanted their business partners to migrate to Vista/W7... Probably the VB6 community is bigger than the C# one right now.

Reply #59 Top

Quoting ckessel, reply 5

And I did say "good" programmers

I'm a C# programmer, but I won't say a specific language makes you a better or worse coder :p (because if you say that, then everyone should be programming in Lisp probably :p).

Reply #60 Top

Quoting landisaurus, reply 6

Quoting ckessel, reply 25
It should be beta 0, because as all good programmers know, you start counting at zero

heh, I don't think having a counting system start with '0' is something that marks a 'good' programmer.  maybe a s

...whole bunch of stuff snipped...

You realized it was a joke, right? Albeit, a joke I suppose only make sense to folks familiar with programming.

 

Reply #61 Top

Well, there are only 10 types of people in the world, after all: those who understand binary, and those who don't.  :p

Trick question: does the author of the above understand binary or not?

Reply #63 Top

Yeah, I heard about Demigod's launch.  I used to have a lot of respect for Gamespot, but the fact that they're unwilling to revisit a game after launch takes them down a notch or two.  Can you imagine the review of the original Counterstrike vs. the final version pre-CS: Source?  It was a totally different game.  I also can't help but notice that over the years they've been more...generous...with the larger development shops.  It's very rare to see Gamespot rate an indy game above an 8.0 or 8.5.  I think often they let the "Graphics" score influence the other scores: in other words, they get so caught up with the game's look and feel, they neglect actual gameplay.

In Demigod's case, Stardock basically got hit with an uncoordinated DOS attack.  Maybe Stardock should publish a patch which the pirates can download, but the patch just redirects all requests to Gamespot's servers.  :p

Reply #64 Top


For those of you who have been through the development of a Stardock developed or published game, much of this will be familiar.  For those of you aren’t, welcome!
Early next year we plan to release a new turn-based PC strategy game called Elemental.  Our games typically have 3 betas and then a private “gamma” and then release.  We use the beta to mean truly unfinished, not feature complete but playable (we also use the term “alpha” for truly unfinished but not playable before we move into beta).
Beta 1 is typically the engine test. Beta 2 is the connectivity/multiplayer test. And beta 3 is the balance/fun test. Gamma is where it’s done but we’re doing final bug testing on it.
For Elemental, we want to add a 4th beta that’s earlier than we normally start betas. The reason for this is because we plan to do some pretty radical stuff with Elemental from a game mechanics point of view. Some of these ideas may look good on paper but not be remotely practical.  So for Elemental, we’re going to add a beta 0.
Here is the tentative schedule:
Beta 0: June 2009.  This won’t be fun and will only play on the cloth map.

The idea being, if the game is fun, it should still be fun without fancy graphics. Finishing Spring and over the Summer, we’ll be trying out all kinds of game mechanics, listening to people in the beta (anyone who pre-orders has the option to participate in the beta) to see what ideas they might have, etc.  It’s a lot cheaper to implement an idea or concept when we only have to represent it with icons on a cloth map.
Beta 1: August 2009. This is the engine test where we insert the actual graphics engine. The cloth map will still be there for zooming out but now you’ll be able to really play in the world and we’ll start to build onto this.  The game still won’t be fun at this stage but you’ll be able to give feedback on the look, UI, and other game engine stuff.

Beta 2: October 2009. This is the multiplayer test. It still won’t likely be very fun but you’ll be able to suffer with friends on-line. Elemental’s multiplayer model is client-server (which is the opposite of Demigod which is peer-to-peer). In Elemental’s case, Impulse will host the actual games which means that (in theory) there should be no such thing as “connection issues”. If you can connect to a web page, you should be able to play people on-line in Elemental. 
It will be at this stage when we decide whether Elemental will make its ship date.  We have February 2010 or August 2010 set aside for Elemental based on player feedback (we prefer February but we don’t want to feel rushed).  Right now, we’re running slightly ahead of schedule.
One nice thing about Beta 2 is that the multiplayer features we’re adding into Elemental will also be made available in updates to Demigod for multiplayer users and anything else that uses Impulse Reactor (our development platform).
 
Beta 3: December 2009. This is when the game better start getting to be fun. This is where we balance things, etc.
 
Gamma: January 2010. This is often called a “release candidate” by other developers but these are private builds where we think everything works but expect there to be some last minute bugs that need to be fixed.
 
Release: Mid-February 2010.
 
If you have any questions, let us know. We’re always around.

 

Finally someone in the industry realises that!  Personally I've always wanted to be a beta tester.

Would it be possible to get a copy of some of the forms you ask your in house Bug finders to fill out so I can begin seriously persuing beta testing?  Even If I don't get into any of the Betas or Gamma I would still like to have it on hand for like submitting bugs found in oter Stardock Games.

 

Personally I thinking that the game would be more than awesome if it was all just on the Cloth map!

 

P.S. Aim for August 2010. A few months more Polish never hurt anyone/anything.

Reply #66 Top

Quoting Tamba, reply 15
Will we be able to preorder with Paypal? (like in the Sins and Demigod betas)

 

It's available for preorder on Impulse and at the Elemental site already.

Reply #67 Top

It is, but you can't preorder using Paypal because it doesn't allow delayed charges. In the Sins and Demigod betas, preordering with Paypal was activated for a few days whenever a new beta phase started, because they could then charge it immediately.

Reply #68 Top
Very much looking forward to trying out Beta 0 and helping out int he development progress. Seeing as I'm a big fan of Dwarf Fortress, which has no graphics and is in "pre-alpha" I think I can definitely handle "just" having a colorful map with icons :p *pre-order* With this and the two Blizzard titles coming up I've got so many games I'm following right now :/
Reply #69 Top

Quoting Fetus4188, reply 18
Very much looking forward to trying out Beta 0 and helping out int he development progress. Seeing as I'm a big fan of Dwarf Fortress, which has no graphics and is in "pre-alpha" I think I can definitely handle "just" having a colorful map with icons

*pre-order*

With this and the two Blizzard titles coming up I've got so many games I'm following right now :/

 

 

I adore Dwarf Fortress... My alltime favourite moment was when one of my artisans crafted something then dropped it, ran down my main thuroughfare killing and destroying everything in his wake (barehanded mind you) then seemingly exploded or vomited blood in a 9 square radius..... Needless to say I've had to restart that game many many times and just now figured out how to work an irrigation system that doesnt flood the map.

 

Hey Devs! http://www.hammacher.com/publish/75698.asp?promo=homepage You should all have one to bounce ideas off of!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=weGTZ5VXR4s&feature=related

 

Priceless

Reply #70 Top

Quoting Vicente, reply 9

Quoting ckessel, reply 5
And I did say "good" programmers



I'm a C# programmer, but I won't say a specific language makes you a better or worse coder (because if you say that, then everyone should be programming in Lisp probably ).

it could be worse you could have to program in MC68332 assembly language

Reply #71 Top

Quoting Szadowsz, reply 20



Quoting Vicente,
reply 9

Quoting ckessel, reply 5
And I did say "good" programmers



I'm a C# programmer, but I won't say a specific language makes you a better or worse coder (because if you say that, then everyone should be programming in Lisp probably ).


it could be worse you could have to program in MC68332 assembly language

10 years of my life that I want back writing Assembly Code for and IBM 370 mainframe system (bank software) Man i wish I had studied C++ during those years! #:(

Reply #72 Top

Don't sweat it.  just sing along with this song!

 

and all will be well!

Reply #73 Top

OMG. HaunterV, you should post that in the "If we met Aliens" thread.

It demonstrates quite well how far man, and his technology, has come thus far. LOL :)

Reply #74 Top

Day and date that this game allows us to play, Beta 0, or whatever, I will pre-order. I don't mind, and in fact am intrigued by watching Stardock's games evolve through Betas.

Reply #75 Top

Whenever you find the time, it'd be nice to have some kind of update about that tentative Elemental development schedule. Not only to know how much waiting still for us but also to get a real idea of the impact of Demigod's MP in Elemental's development schedule.

If you don't mind, that is.:pout: